<p>a) that is a ridic awkward nickname haha
b) i’m lucky in that my parents pay for everything. allotments for housing are included in your financial aid package and can be used for both on and off campus housing. with the new initiatives announced by penn in financial aid concerning loans, i think the burden should be lessened. that said, i think a lot of people do work study and since classes are really only anywhere from 1-5+ hours a day, you can do your work study stuff during the school day and still have tons of time to go to meetings and hang out with everyone else at night.</p>
<hr>
<p>more than one person can live in most bedrooms off campus, depending on landlord’s policies, but you’ll rarely find that except in fraternity/sorority housing because of… the need to hook up, mostly.</p>
<p>Working to pay rent would be incredibly difficult. For example, a typical on-campus job runs around 10/hour. Rent + utilities could be 600 to 900, so we’ll say 600 a month on the low end (cheapest housing you can find, including utilities). That’s 60 hours a month straight up, which means 15 hours a week at job just to pay the rent. I’m sure you can find better or more realistic numbers out there, but spending all the money you earn in an on campus job on rent will kill you. (In order to get a job that pays well, you give up the doing hw on the job privilige, and most rents are higher than that. So these numbers are on a low end)</p>
<p>You’re better off taking out loans and borrowing against your future income to pay for rent while you’re in college. College is one of the best investments you can make, and rent is included in that. Humans tend to smooth consumption - meaning that it’s in our nature to borrow while we’re young from our future wealthier days. </p>
<p>Realistically, you can work on campus (I’d say most Penn students have had some job on campus by the time they graduate) and put some of that money toward tuition/rent/books but you will want to save some money for everyday living - you don’t want to end up living on credit cards. Take out a student loan - the interest rates on student loans are FAR lower than credit card rates.</p>
<p>matt- many students (after freshman year) have internships/jobs off-campus. Some work at law firms or other companies, as much as 20 hours a week. Classes don’t take up that much time, and the work experience is really helpful for summer internships and law school/grad school applications.</p>
<p>What are the options if you completely leave the West Philly area? Clearly, there is an obvious disadvantage to commuting in, but there must be some more cost-efficient, non-slum options if you are willing to further out, yes? Does anyone do this?</p>
<p>Mom,
Do those students actually pay rent with that money? I don’t know anyone who gets paid enough at off-campus jobs to pay anything near what their rent costs. As I said before, it’s just not realistic to think you can pay your rent as you go with work money (and 20 hours a week is pretty steep to still be involved on campus). Additionally, it makes total financial sense to take out loans when student loans are available at such low rates.</p>
<p>brot: off-off campus? There are some commuter students who live it home (with parents) and take the train or drive in. There are very few of them, but the DP did a focus on one this semester. (or maybe it was in the DP blogs, you can search for it). I really don’t think you’ll find anything appreciably lower within commuting distance, and you can bet it will severely impact your college experience. Some students do live in Center City, but that’s for those with serious money who want to get out of west philly (it’s not THAT much more expensive if you look in the right center city neighborhoods, but it’s more than Radian). Many grad students live in center city. Overall, there isn’t really anywhere in philly you can live and commute to save money without living with parents. (You may find luck living with friends at Drexel or Temple, but that’s a stretch too)</p>
<p>As someone who has had multiple jobs to help pay off present-day expenses, I can whole-heartedly agree with mattwonder here. It’s simply too much work, and the expenses are too high. Now I just bite the bullet and take out loans on things I can’t realistically pay for in the present.</p>
<p>At the start of my sophomore year, I was taking 6-7 classes while working over 40 hours a week, and this includes multiple jobs where one job even paid upwards of $30 an hour. It was still not enough money to make ends meet and my GPA and health tanked. It’s my #1 most regretted mistake in college… taking such a big bite sophomore year. I couldn’t handle the stress and now I’m in the process of trying to dig my way back out. I tried to do as much as I could to minimize my debt because my parents were not contributing to any of my expenses, including food. Even to this day I stress out over food expenses because work study just doesn’t cover it. Most work-study jobs don’t pay a whole lot (next year I am going to look for something where I can program for Wharton or something. I’m the code master ). Even at the maximum of 20 hours a week, given the optimistic point of $10/hr, that’s only $200/week before tax is taken out. That’s hardly enough to buy all the clothes and food you need, in addition to entertainment like movies or just going shopping or exploring the city. It all adds up pretty quickly, and it requires so much effort to minimize costs. </p>
<p>In the end, working to pay off current expenses such as rent or other comparably-high expenses is just impossible in college. Take out a loan. Worry about it later.</p>
<p>I wasn’t trying to say you could make enough to pay all your rent or expenses, but it can help to have some money towards these expenses. I am generally very opposed to college students working- I think it is better to focus on school, as LofMax said. However, needing to work is a reality in many instances. It might make the difference in whether you can live in the Radian.
There are Center City housing options that are much better than the options surrounding Penn, but you lose the convenience of being, eseentially, on-campus. Much of the off-campus housing is actually within the Penn police patrol area, for better or worse.</p>
<p>I think trying to work your way through college today, at a place like Penn, is almost impossible. It’s simply too expensive, the jobs don’t pay enough (relative to what you’ll earn post-graduation) and the schoolwork is too demanding. Additionally, you can really miss out on some great experiences on campus.</p>
<p>I do think that working ~10 hours a week (more or less depending on how demanding your job is and if you can do hw at work) is really good for students. For many students, this means working as a tutor, in tech support, or in a lab related to your field (or research) where you can either study on the job, use technical skills to make more money than average, or get ahead in your field. The spending money you’ll earn can be very helpful, and you’ll learn about the value of money in relation to your time. You can then treat yourself to a better lifestyle, and build work experience or field experience. (Getting a small job can mean the difference between eating Ramen/staying in bored and going out for dinner and fun with friends)</p>
<p>Overall I have to say that living off campus generally gets you better housing than on (i’ve lived two years on and two years off, different place each year). It really depends on where you look for off campus stuff. If you want to be immediately next to campus (i.e. Hamco or between 40th and 41st), you will generally pay far too much for far too little, it can be $900 a month for a glorified closet in the row homes and Hamco can either be really nice or really crappy depending on what room you get. Once you cross 41st though, the housing gets markedly better and the prices more reasonable. I’ve had a few problems this year with getting maintenance to deal with a leak in the corner of my apartment, but I get about a 300sq ft studio that was renovated last year for about 600/month including utilities. Last year I lived with two other people in a 2-bath 3-bedroom apartment that had full living and dining rooms, plus a kitchen with dishwasher and a deck for 550/month including utilities. We also had nice little details that come with old houses, like 15ft high ceilings that had hammered tin coverings and hardwood floors. The only real drawbacks were being on 42nd, which is a little far for a science major like myself (but that’s what bikes are for) and being at the mercy of the landlord regarding heating the apartment. Point is, it really, really depends on where you look. Housing is Penn’s single greatest weakness in my opinion, and after your freshman year you need to approach your living accommodations with that in mind, and be prepared to start your search early and be dedicated to get a good place to live.</p>
<p>Also, if you really think the row homes are of ‘slum’ quality, I suggest you stroll a few blocks more westward to get some actual perspective; it’s mediocre college housing, not the projects.</p>
<p>My son lived two years on and two years off campus. I can vouch for the fact that the dorms had been renovated (in the last 10 years) whereas the 2 row house apts he rented in his jr. and sr. years probably were untouched for 50 years.Mice killing was a required past-time.</p>
<p>Reading this thread has been very comforting - last month after much begging, pleading and justifying we agreed to let our daughter (freshman now) sign a lease for the Radian with her friends. It seemed so expensive and way too early to be finding a place for next year. Now I’m glad that she has a safe place to live that maybe isn’t as expensive as I thought it was!!!</p>
<p>momtn- Trust me, you did the right thing with the Radian. It was close to a no-brainer for us with a SON. With a daughter I would have been the first in line. The safety factor is huge. Another expense that is included is laundry. Off-campus laundry can get very expensive and inconvenient, and the W/D in the Radian apartments is going to be great.</p>
<p>Is someone paying you to plug the Radian, MomofWildChild? </p>
<p>I’m not disagreeing with your characterization of the Locust St. apartment your son lived in. A well known male a cappella group has a house on the same block, and it’s a dump (my apologies to any lurkers!). I have another friend who lives just a few houses down, who has great roommates who all respect the space, and they take good care of it. Especially considering that they are boys. It’s not all up to the landlord to make sure that residents don’t beat the place up. It is what you, and your roommates, make of it. So a happy housing experience depends on picking good ones. And one really bad experience in one house shouldn’t turn anyone off to all off campus housing. That’s just silly. </p>
<p>I wish I could have scared my parents into signing a Radian lease for me, but I couldn’t have done it without laughing. I doubt that anyone of strong constitution has run to the Radian for fear of other “unsafe” housing options. There’s a lot to be said for having street smarts living here (even on campus). However, our part of West Philly is not nearly as unsafe as the DP and, by extension, frantic parents make it out to be. I guess it’s good we have a place now for those who won’t or can’t figure that out. </p>
<p>I don’t want freshmen or would-be applicants to think that it’s a hopeless situation. Most on campus (freshmen) housing is decent. Even having “bad” housing in your freshmen year helps you bond with your classmates. If and when you choose to live off campus, there are a lot of REALLY GREAT apartments and houses that are much less expensive than the Radian, but you have to do your research (i.e. don’t sublet sight unseen from a stranger, to live with strangers).</p>
<p>well said, crazy. Off campus housing is what you make of it–much like life itself (so get used to it).</p>
<p>And the fear angle is indeed overblown l. Just ask the other 9,999 undergrads who DONT get mugged/etc year in and year out. I can introduce you to a few hundred of them myself</p>
<p>does anyone know how the situation with radian is right now? 2 friends and I are looking for housing next year, but needless to say, we were lazy and started off late. My mom suggested we go with radian, but now I’m not even sure if there are any 3bedroom apts. left. Does anyone know if there are any left?</p>
<p>country_crazy is spouting the party line.
The reality is that unless you can find a house that is suddenly open and you have a group of 8 or so people ready to grab it up, none of which plan to go abroad for the next couple of years, you can’t control who your roommates are going to be. Everyone sublets their rooms on an individual basis. In the house my son just left, not one of the first semester residents is staying. They were all subletting or were subletters themselves.
Freshman housing isn’t horrible- dorms are dorms. If you don’t care about being able to fix any of your own meals, stay in the dorm. Or there is the high rise where you have to allow up to 15 minutes for an elevator at peak times. </p>
<p>Why are you so threatened when I point out the realities of the situation? I am a native Philadelphian and most of my family went to Penn. My son is at Penn. I pay a lot of money to Penn. I didn’t want to pay for the Radian, but it truly is the best option and one of the few AVAILABLE decent choices. Try getting a place in the other very few nice apartment buildings. Nothing available. And who wants to live 8 blocks from campus? Sure you can ride your bike. That’s real fun late at night with a laptop in the winter. It should be pretty clear to you smart Wharton kids that the reason the Radian and the other nice buildings sell out so quickly is that most everything else is crap. Supply and demand. Maybe you would learn that at UChicago.</p>
<p>i have a beautiful and clean off-campus house on 40th, and had many other options available to me in terms of houses (not apartments) for my group of friends. there were many 3, 4, 5, and 6 bedroom house options available, not just for enormous groups that are difficult to pull together.</p>
<p>you just have to look for it, and be very organized by november. being in a free-standing house without having to worry about neighbors sharing a wall with you is amazing in terms of what you can do socially. i also feel like a true adult in my own house. because each individual in the house signed a lease, and pays rent individually, we feel a duty to keep our house in pleasant conditions, and i have yet to have rodent/roach/danger problems.</p>
<p>hamco, the hub, chestnut hall, pine arms, and other options were still available the last time i checked in january.</p>
<p>8 blocks from campus puts you on 48th, where virtually no students live, and, if you’re south of locust or so, is actually a very nice area with prices comprable to what one pays in the radian. Also, riding one’s bike dramatically cuts down the odds of one getting mugged on the way home, no?</p>
<p>Both years I have lived off campus, I have started searching in early February because i procrastinate like no other, and have ended up with more than acceptable housing each year, significantly better than during the two years I spent on campus, for less than half of what somewhere like the radian costs.</p>
<p>Another point of note is that the hub, a building of the same ilk as the radian, is in a comparatively poor location relative to the vast majority of off-campus housing, so the issue seems less one of safety than one of students milking their parents for a posh apartment.</p>
<p>Frankly, the reason those places sell out so quickly is that the majority of Penn students’ parents pay full sticker price for their kids to be there, so what do they care about another grand or two a month? This leads not only to the places selling out, but to artificially inflated prices. The consumers in this case (the parents) have only suspect sources of information upon which to base their purchasing decision, and no one to dissuade them from spending excessive amounts of money for some false sense of security.</p>
). Even at the maximum of 20 hours a week, given the optimistic point of $10/hr, that’s only $200/week before tax is taken out. That’s hardly enough to buy all the clothes and food you need, in addition to entertainment like movies or just going shopping or exploring the city. It all adds up pretty quickly, and it requires so much effort to minimize costs. </p>