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@Grinnellhopeful - I know that you’re anxious to have this all worked out and truly believe that St. Olaf will give you the moon and the stars, but remember, your daughter hasn’t even visited yet. You will be in a much better bargaining position with St. Olaf – or ANY school – if you don’t apply ED.

I am not advocating for you to use other offers in order to back out of the ED agreement. I am saying to back out of it because it make NO financial sense, especially if there’s any thought of merit aid coming into play. And Ask the Dean will confirm this.

It make absolutely NO sense whatsoever to apply ED to a school with a more than 50% accept rate RD and where your daughter now scores above the average ACT score (29). St. Olaf is not the kind of school that protects yield through ED; fewer than 5 % of applications they receive are ED. You will be in a much better bargaining position both before and after they come up with an FA offer.

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@citymama9 my bad - they began this year! https://case.edu/admission/admission/tuition-aid

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@homerdog, meets needs schools generally will not expect the student to take out more than their federal loan amount. Now…, their definition of “need” and yours may not be the same. But a “meets need” school doesn’t generally include other loans beyond federal loans in the package, They may have work study and summer earnings expectations, though.

That “without loans” means without any loans, including federal loans. No one thinks the OP’s kid has a shot at those schools.

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@LoveTheBard How does one know whether a school uses ED to protect yield or whether it’s worth your while to apply ED? In other words, what does one look for? Thanks so much

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All schools use ED to protect yield.

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@LoveTheBard you are actually touching on something I may have a misconception about.
The acceptance rate at SO is not 50% in RD.

Also, keep in mind we were working with a score that was lower and ED often helps offset the lower score. But here’s the thing. She found a school that checks all the boxes and she stands a decent chance of admission with her scores before and now. It just works. They do meet full need with the minimal $5500 in loans.

The choir, I can’t stress this enough, if you are a serious choir person you know this is the top choir in the country. SO is the golden ring for choir students. Also, SO understands why her ECs might look light, it’s because all of her time went to choir and choir competitions on the state and regional levels. She worked the sweet elementary schools choir students, helps with all the fundraisers so her choir can travel for competitions (our choir is probably the best in our state), she does set up and tear down for performances, she’s on the executive board and helps all the other choirs with uniforms. It’s a huge part of her life and her happy place since she was in 5th grade.

Not every school looks at her ECs and can see this. They see choir and nothing else until this year. Only a school who values choir will get this.

She lettered in choir every year, for all the choir geeks out there this is a big deal. But most people who aren’t choir geeks don’t understand.

She works on additional music pieces in Latin and Italian, and many other languages outside of the normal choir curriculum. This is probably where her love of languages comes from.

She has always been in the audition only, most advanced choir since she was eligible and spent her elementary and middle school years dreaming of wearing our schools choir robe first than Chamber dress later. We actually had to transfer back into our school when I bought this house 4 years ago so she could stay in this choir program. My youngest D also followed this path along with band where she was 1st chair as a freshman.

Anyway…this is the golden ring that she never in a million years thought she would be able to even consider herself a candidate for.

When her choir director found out she was applying and had a decent shot of admission she audibly gasped.
The dean of fine arts has communicated with my D and even opened the window back up TWICE so my and her choir director could get materials submitted.

My D sang a song at state contest last year that was written specifically for St. Olaf. Maybe this helps put things in perspective.

We were never trying to figure out a way to NOT attend St. Olaf, she just was afraid to try, she thought it was out of her reach.

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Don’t count on the parent being turned down for the Plus loan. It is really very easy to qualify for one. All you need is to be no more than 90 days delinquent on a major loan (like a mortgage), not have defaulted on a federal loan, and not be in bankruptcy.

Having a car at college is one of the most expensive things a kid can have. You have insurance, maintenance costs, gas, parking permits. Those costs usually aren’t part of the COA, so the ‘full scholarship’ isn’t covering them. Having a car parked outside in MN in the winter usually involves a few jump starts, maybe being pulled out of a ditch, etc., so a $100 AAA membership is a good idea. Driving from MN to Kansas in the winter is difficult for an experienced driver.

I think you and your daughter have to realize that going away to college requires a commitment to be THERE, and a lot of sacrifices. She can’t just come home if she’s feeling homesick, or if a cousin gets married, or even for a funeral. My daughter goes to college 2000 miles away, and she does not come home except at Christmas. Last year she had to evacuate because of the hurricane and she went to the closest/cheapest place she could which was NJ. That’s just how it is when you are on a tight budget. Some kids on even a tighter budget ended up at the county shelters (elementary school gyms) Her first year at school she had very expensive freshman meal plan.(no options), and I told her that when others were going out for pizza, she had to tell her friends she was going back to eat at the dorms where she could have pizza… Smoothies, snacks, sodas all had to be purchased with her dining dollars, not at local shops or restaurants. Spring break in Mexico, trips to Disney? Not in the budget. She made her college choice knowing how it was going to be. Having a car at college has never been an option because it is just too expensive.

My other daughter is at school about 150 miles away. She can come home more often, but it still takes some budgeting and planning, and has weather considerations. 300 miles is $50 in gas and if she’s getting picked up and returned, that’s 600 miles for a weekend (and 10 hours of my time).

I know a lot of kids who went away to college and found it wasn’t for them. They wanted to be closer to home. These were good schools - Reed, Washington College in MD, Rollins, U of Portland, Brandeis - but these kids wanted to be in Colorado. If your daughter wants to be in Kansas, she should stay in Kansas.

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Yes, you did mention the car. My kids did not have a car in college. One finally got one the year after graduation when she started grad school (I gave her my old one). The other kid is in her late 20s and moved to a city with good public transit after graduation. I’d probably sell the car. That is easily worth a few thousand a year in insurance, gas, etc.

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It’s not clear that it would be easy or even possible for a first-year student with no need to have a car to get a parking permit at St. Olaf.

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@twoinanddone I am in the middle of filing bankruptcy, I will be denied. I also have a plus loan for my 23 year old son.
@rosered55 We just started talking about the car situation, she hasn’t been accepted yet. Just a few short weeks ago she was only looking at Grinnell or KSU where she needed her car.

One thing at a time. Assess her FA packages where she has been accepted, determine if she should apply anywhere else, hopefully celebrate St. Olaf acceptance with a doable FA package.

Then we will figure out what to do with her car. She needed it when she bought it and that was what my mother wanted her to do. We just briefly touched on it as we found a school that in a bit further away.

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OP, I mentioned the car because often colleges define “need” for a car differently than students and their parents do. And I don’t mean “need” in the sense of whether the student needed it while in high school. St. Olaf has a specific policy about which students can apply for parking permits, and I assume most other colleges do, too, at least if parking is limited. It is at both St. Olaf and Carleton (in the same city). If having a car at school is going to be vital for you and your daughter, you should look into car and parking rules now, not later.

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The car comments are spot on. An additional hidden cost that may not even be possible for a first year student.

Also, @twoinanddone hit it on the head. Being far away from home comes with a commitment. I recall a tour guide at a selective mid-size University on the east coast tell a story about a first year from Hawaii who was upset when a relative died and she couldn’t afford to race home. The point of the story was that the dean of students opened his own wallet and paid for a trip home. I guess the guide was trying to stress how student focused they were but all I thought was what poor planning to go to school so far away without the resources to support that decision.

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Also if she sells her car how will she get to work during the summer and over break? What will she drive after graduation? I am the only adult in this household and I run a business by myself, a new business at that. I work whenever there is work, I can’t be relied on to take the kids anywhere. We know she can’t come home every weekend nor should she. But she will need to,work over extended breaks and should have the opportunity to see her sister who is only 18 months younger than her, and me.

We don’t live in an area with easily accessible public transportation.

Never did we think for a minute that a scholarship should cover the cost of her car. She has roadside assistance with her insurance, and her car gets on average 38MPG in the city.

She never ever said she wanted to stay in Kansas. She’s baby stepping away from Kansas.

I’m not going to feel guilty about her car. It’s not like she has a luxury automobile. My mother wanted her to have a new reliable car. She made sure she did. She is deprived of so many things that other people take for granted. I don’t begrudge her choice in a car (she picked it out), or the fact that she has one.

Again, when we started this process everywhere she looked was within reasonable driving distance.

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I don’t intend for you to feel guilty about the car! Really! I’m talking only about parking at college, a very specific aspect of car ownership that varies from school to school. For example, here is St. Olaf’s policy: https://wp.stolaf.edu/parking/motorvehiclepolicy/studentpolicy/. Here is Beloit College’s policy: https://www.beloit.edu/security/parking/
Here is Earlham’s policy: https://earlham.edu/public-safety/parking/

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I feel like we are getting ahead of ourselves worrying about the car. We will deal with that situation once she knows if she gets accepted to St. Olaf. Every other acceptance aside from Beloit are within driving distance but she liked the train issue at Knox…it was an odd thing that she hyper focused on, IMO.

But she definitely needs her car when she is home. I could potentially need to fly out the door to rush to my shop at anytime, 7 days a week. I have a very unique business that I won’t go into details about on here. But my customers are often in a panic and need me at odd hours. I can’t afford to turn away business and can’t afford to hire even a regular part time employee, yet.

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My daughters both had a car for their own use in high school and for a few years at college. I totally understand the need and the desire. But there were hurdles to jump (erected by the colleges) for them to have the cars at college. I was kind of relieved when D2 got a parking permit at Carleton because driving her back and forth was an annoying task for my ex and me. However, it also was a challenge during the one semester when she had a car at college, her sister had a car at college, and my ex (then my husband) was spending half the week at his parents’ home, 150 miles away. Four months of not having my own car was my limit.

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Sorry @rosered55. Maybe I’m starting to get defensive. I think the car has been an issue with some of her peers. Also at times it’s hard to remain graceful after reading some comments in this thread. After all this is my child. I’m quite partial to her. I’m sure people don’t mean some of the things they say in the way I often perceive them.

She is so much more than her GPA and test scores. She’s a 17 year old girl who has experienced trauma that most adults cannot even conceive of.

She has some very young qualities about her but she also has shown she’s no shrinking violet. She will adapt wherever she is and she will succeed. Because that’s who she is.

I apologize if I let my gracefulness disappear over an innocent comment about her car.
Please forgive me. I can see now you weren’t trying to be anything other than helpful.

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I am impressed by your entire family, @Grinnellhopeful. I fervently hope your daughter is accepted at and can attend a school at which she has a great experience but that is not so hard to reach that you and your other daughter can’t see her enough.

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@rosered55 Thank you! It’s quite possible she could get to a place like SO and decide she never wants to leave. lol
Honestly, if accepted there she will be so busy with all the things she loves, she won’t have time to spend traveling back and forth often.

I “think” that’s why she was focusing on the direct Amtrack route at Knox. She has to manage her time so carefully right now, she may have been thinking about the studying time she could get on the train on her way home. I actually know she was thinking that because she said so.

I’m not sure if that’s why she was hyper focused on it but it was definitely part of her thought process.

She often leaves the house at 6am and doesn’t get home until after 9pm. These kids are exhausted.

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I should add that tonight I have learned I’ll have a whole new learning curve and things to consider after we through the process of discovering all of our choices, than trying to make sense of FA packages. Making a final decision or having it made for us by our ED agreement. Then comes withdrawing applications, and I don’t even know what. Then how to get her off to school with everything she needs when I don’t even have a clue what that might be. I’m already exhausted. Just when I think we’re getting closer to being done, I realize there is then a whole new set of things I have to muddle through and hope I don’t screw up. It’s hard when you don’t even know what those things are.

@rosered55 is right, there are many things to deal with and the car is just one of them.

I don’t get much break after getting this D off and settled into a school. I know now I have to start right now with my D20. And we already have a little. We worked out her class schedule for next year with her GC and decided she will take a cold ACT in June just to see how she scores.

I could use some grownup time just for me.

But I probably wouldn’t take it…I feel a sense of urgency and like there is something else I should be doing that I’ve missed.