Looking for a strong science/engineering school, mostly Northeast- help appreciated!

College Search & Selection
1

<p>As application time approaches, I'm looking to narrow down my list of potential schools- but I also want to be sure I haven't overlooked any. I'm mainly looking at going into a STEM field, probably science or engineering, but honestly I don't want to be too set in stone in this regard.</p>

<p>I have no doubt that I could enjoy either, but one of the main things I'm looking forward to in college is getting a more hands-on appreciation of these fields. Hopefully then I'll feel like I'm making a more educated decision, rather than a haphazard guess based of my (likely very ignorant) beliefs of what being a scientist/engineer entails.</p>

<p>I'd likely be applying as for either physics or mechanical engineering (depending on the school's strength), and then evaluate from there. I guess my point here is it's important for me for school to have both strong science and engineering departments.</p>

<p>Stat-wise, I've got a 2290 SAT (1510 CR/M), a 4.35 (weighted) GPA, an 800 Physics subject test, and a 790 USH subject test. I'll be taking Math II in October, and hopefully doing well on that (on that note, will the October results be in in time for EA?). I'm not sure of my UW GPA, but my schedule is the most rigorous that was physically possible for me to take at my school (11 APs), and I've only ever gotten two A-'s (in 9th and 10th grade, in Honors classes).</p>

<p>However, my EC's are pretty weak. I've done some volunteering, and been in a few clubs, got National Merit, but I'm not president of anything and haven't cured cancer. I'm hoping to compensate for this with my essays, which I think will be my strength.</p>

<p>As far as non-academic factors for my prospective colleges, I'm actually not too picky. I'd prefer a college with a broad variety among the students, rather than just math/science, but that's not a deal-breaker for me- I certainly wouldn't turn down MIT if I were lucky enough to get in there. I probably prefer a "college bubble" to a city, but that's even less of a deal-breaker.</p>

<p>Location-wise, I've compromised with my parents to stay in the Northeast, as there are enough excellent schools here that I'm having enough trouble narrowing down my list. So yes, California and Texas and what-have-you are out of the picture, though Illinois and Michigan are certainly still in (I'm in PA). I don't have any "cut-off" point for this, but proximity is an advantage (my parents aren't "helicopter parents", they'd just like for me to be able to come home for holidays without it being a large production). That said, this is a bigger issue for my parents than myself, so as long as its vaguely in the Northeast it's A-OK.</p>

<p>Thanks very much for reading my wall of text, and your insight is greatly appreciated.</p>

2

<p>Checkout Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Georgia tech (southeast, so might be a bit far), Wisconsin-Madison, Boston U, renneslear polytechnic (RPI), and purdue. Some of those are a sort of safetyish for you, but still pretty good schools.</p>

3

<p>You can also look at Lafayette, Lehigh, Bucknell, Carnegie Mellon, Penn State, Villanova, UPenn (reach) in PA, Union, URochester, Cornell (reach) in NY. Not sure if your lack of ECs and CR/M score will hurt at all but your total SAT is strong.</p>

<p>It never hurts to check with the admissions dept. but Oct. results are generally fine for EA.</p>

4

<p>Carnegie Mellon and Lehigh are definitely going to be on there, and Penn State is a very solid safety. I’ll likely be applying to Cornell- and honestly, I’d like to go top-heavy with my spread. I’ll have Penn State and Drexel as safeties (got a free application from Drexel), Carnegie Mellon, Lehigh, and probably a third (Michigan?) as match, and then go with reaches for the rest.</p>

<p>My SATs aren’t god-level but they’re enough to at least get me considered at Ivies (it’s a 760/750 split, by the way, so I don’t have a gaping weakness or anything). I’m planning on getting in contact with admissions offices, taking interviews, and above all, writing some really *****in’ essays they really convey my passion and drive for this. I’ve never regretted taking on a challenge in my life, so I’m not going to be dissuaded- that said, I’m not deluding myself, and if I get shot down then I’ll learn from it and move on to a no doubt excellent experience at one of my other prospective schools.</p>

<p>So, on that note, I’m considering what my far reaches are. Princeton or MIT would be my first choice (maybe I’d apply to Harvard as well- the reputation is intimidating but if I’m applying to Princeton and MIT I think I’ve already crossed the necessary arrogance threshold). From there I’d be looking at some “mid reaches”- still very tough, but >10% admittance rates. It’s here that I perhaps need the most help. Cornell, maybe University of Chicago?</p>

<p>Once again, any further suggestions are much appreciated- as is critique of my plans.</p>

5

<p>Don’t underestimate the U of Rochester if you are interested in the research end of things. They ought to be right up there with schools you’d like based upon what you’ve said you want. You’ll get some auto merit with NMF, and if you need any need-based aid, they are good with that too. It’d be worth spending some time on their website - and perhaps stopping by for a visit.</p>

<p>ps Am I wrong in thinking U Chicago doesn’t have engineering?</p>

6

<p>No, it appears it does not (you can tell which schools I’ve just added to this list just recently). Good spot. I was flipping through top science schools and it came up, I put it down for consideration but haven’t looked into it more than that. So that’s one out.</p>

<p>The middle area of my spread is actually the one that’s filling up the fastest, and I’m having the hardest time discriminating amongst. Carnegie Mellon, Lehigh, Michigan, RPI, Case Western, UVA, Rochester, Northwestern- I could go on.</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon and Michigan have stood out to me the most so far, but that’s my very ignorant perception. Of that list (and any others you might think of), I’m mainly discriminating upon:</p>

<p>[ul]Strength of both science and engineering programs[/ul]

[ul]Just as importantly, ease of switching between these fields. I can understand if it’s only freshman year or something, but any school that lets me experiment with both (and their many subfields) before locking into a major gets a significant plus. Honestly, this is near mandatory for me. It’s one of the things I most like about Princeton.[/ul]</p>

<p>Other notes: I care very little about sports. It’s not a disadvantage to have a good sports team, but it is almost negligible to me- an incredibly sports-focused school culture might even be a turnoff. Also, I don’t mind cold or rain nearly as much as I mind heat.</p>

7

<p>In terms of Ivies, I think Cornell and Columbia have better engineering programs and facilities.</p>

<p>CMU - can be difficult or close to impossible to move between the colleges/programs depending on which direction you are trying to move. Trying to move into the School of Computer Science or the ECE program is extremely difficult for example. Not the greatest situation when you aren’t sure of your intended major. I don’t think there would be any problem going from the mechanical engineering (CIT) to the Mellon School of Science (for physics, math etc.).</p>

8

<p>Any chance you can do some visits? There’s a big difference in atmosphere between your choices (not meaning sports, but location, size, etc). If you were able to visit - even a few - people could suggest “similar” schools atmosphere-wise. If you’re able to spend a night, you’ll have a chance to talk with current students more. That’s eventually what sold my guys (they picked two totally different schools, but each picked the right fit for them).</p>

9

<p>@BeanTownGirl</p>

<p>Ah, alright. That’s a negative for CMU, though considering how strong it is I might just apply into a tougher engineering school and then (if I’m admitted) retain the option of “downgrading”, so to speak, to a less competitive school.</p>

<p>This is extremely helpful though, and if anybody knows of any info like this for other schools I’d greatly appreciate it. I’m doing my own research, but “difficulty of changing schools” isn’t something that’s advertised on the front page- those with experience with the school are much more helpful.</p>

<p>@Creekland</p>

<p>I have done some visits. When my brother was applying (2 years ago), I came along for visits to Lehigh, Penn State, University of Maryland, and NYU. I have since visited Penn and Princeton on my own, and have been to Lehigh several more times as that is where my brother ended up going. Visits to CMU/Pitt, Cornell, and possibly Columbia are in the works.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think that I view the schools I visit as “could I enjoy going here”, and the answer for all I’ve visited is “yes”. If I force myself to be more picky, I probably prefer small-mid sized campuses (not tiny, though), and suburban/rural as opposed to city. But really, it’d just be a different experience, and I’m sure attending a city school would be novel and exciting.</p>

<p>Unfortunately I haven’t spent a night anywhere, so my experience is largely from info sessions, student tours, and then just walking around the campus for a bit. If you’re looking for anything more specific in terms of atmosphere preference, I’d be glad to provide it.</p>

10

<p>Cost constraints? If your parents are able and willing to pay up to $60,000 per year, then the “northeast” limitation may not be as limiting, but if the price limit is substantially lower, then the “northeast” limitation may eliminate some of the better bargains in other regions.</p>

<p>If cost is a concern, run the net price calculators on each school to see if need-based financial aid will be enough. If not, then you need to look for merit scholarships – and base your reach/match/safety assessment of the school on the merit scholarships, not admission.</p>

<p>Note that need-based financial aid is typically best at the reachiest private schools, and in-state publics in some states (check if Penn State and Pittsburgh give sufficient financial aid). Out-of-state publics are mostly not very good at need-based financial aid (Virginia may be an exception), although less selective ones may offer <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; (but most or all of these are not in the northeast), and some others may offer competitive large merit scholarships (e.g. Georgia Tech’s President’s scholarship and NCSU’s Park scholarship, but these are not in the northeast as well).</p>

<p>Some out-of-state publics do have relatively low out-of-state list prices, like Stony Brook, Minnesota, Virginia Tech, NCSU, Cal Poly SLO, Iowa State, New Mexico Mining, and South Dakota Mines. But your parents’ “northeast” limitation eliminates most of them.</p>

<p>As far as switching major goes, you need to carefully check how difficult it is at each school by looking at the web sites (try “change major _____” for each of the possible majors you would consider switching to in the search box). In some cases, it may be easier to switch from engineering to science than from science to engineering; in other cases, it may depend on the specific engineering and science majors.</p>

11

<p>In terms of “coming home for the holidays without it being a large production”, what may be more relevant is the driving time of close by schools, and the airline flight availability, time, and cost for schools outside of driving range. For example, if you go to a far away school near an airport that many airlines fly to non-stop from the one near your parent’s house, then it may be easier to get home than from an airport that requires a layover at an often-delayed hub airport and where flight selection is limited and/or expensive.</p>

12

<p>You might want to consider posting the ‘switching majors’ question on each school’s CC page. The information you have received here is great, but you may be able to find students who have studied your intended majors at the schools you wish to pursue.</p>

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<p>BTW…sorry I read too quickly…your CR/M SATs are great…apologies…</p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus, CT1417</p>

<p>Financial aid is admittedly something that I have not spent enough time on- I’ve been left to investigate the academics of all my prospective schools, while my parents more handled the financial end. But it’s definitely an important factor to look into.</p>

<p>My perception of the EFC was that you basically ended up paying the same amount at any college you went to, unless it was under your EFC. If you EFC is $15k, you’re paying $15k at a $20k school, and you’re paying $15k at a $45k school. And I was under the impression that merit-based scholarships essentially made no difference unless, once again, tuition fell under your EFC+scholarship. The $5k scholarship you got goes to pay for the portion of the tuition you weren’t paying for anyway. And the main advantage of requiring less from the school is that you’d get saddled with less loans/work study.</p>

<p>If any of my assumptions are egregiously wrong, please point them out! I’m definitely going to do some reading on this.</p>

<p>My “Northeast limitation” isn’t set in stone, and not entirely based upon travel costs. The argument that was made was that often coming out of college you will find a job in the same area, end up getting settled there, etc etc. If there are some really excellent schools which have no comparable East coast equivalent that I’m missing out on, then I’d be glad to hear about them. If I really need to push this issue then I will- I’d just need a reason to.</p>

<p>I’m definitely going to pursue the question of switching majors, though honestly I’d say I’m heavily favoring engineering over science at this point in time. The openness of the school in this regard is still a major sticking point for me, though- I may think I’d like engineering now, but that’s based off some very thin evidence. Any school that provides a “shopping” period, or encourages you to declare a major at the end of your first year- major, major plus.</p>

<p>That said, I would be applying for engineering/science, not undecided.</p>

<p>@happy1</p>

<p>Haha, no problem. We’ll see if my scores are worth anything come application time.</p>

15

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<p>That would be for schools that “meet full need”. But that is not true of most schools for all students – only the richest (typically the most selective) private schools, and in-state publics in some states, do that.</p>

<p>Talk to your parents to get two things:</p>

<p>a. The limit of what they are able and willing to contribute.
b. Parameters to put into the college’s net price calculators to get financial aid estimates.</p>

<p>These will affect which schools get put into reach/match/safety categories, and which will be written off as unaffordable (need-based aid falls far short, and merit scholarships are insufficient or not realistically attainable).</p>

<p>You do not want April to come leaving you with only unaffordable (high debt) options. Your parents won’t like it either, since they will have to co-sign any debt beyond the Stafford loan limit.</p>

16

<p>Note that the typical engineering major curriculum includes courses that will make it relatively easy to switch to math, statistics, or physics up to the end of freshman year; some other majors like chemistry and computer science may also be easily switched to, depending on their overlap with the specific engineering major (e.g. chemical engineering to chemistry is a relatively easy switch).</p>

17

<p>OP,</p>

<p>I can help you differentiate Northwestern:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Northwestern engineering is among the most design-oriented and hands-on in the country. The school is putting a lot of emphasis on “whole brain engineering”. You’d be <em>required</em> to design a real product for a real industry client in your freshmen year, as part of the unique first-year curriculum called Engineering First.
[Engineering</a> First ® Program | McCormick School of Engineering | Northwestern University](<a href=“Undergraduate Study | Academics | Northwestern Engineering”>Undergraduate Study | Academics | Northwestern Engineering)
[Segal</a> Design Institute](<a href=“DESIGN INNOVATION - Segal Design Institute, Northwestern University”>http://www.segal.northwestern.edu/)</p></li>
<li><p>NU has one of the most well-established engineering co-op programs, without making it mandatory. About 1/3 of the students participate.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>The mechanical engg was ranked 12th by USN. For sciences, NU has one of the best chemistry departments in the world. Physics is less strong. But I’d also look into their engineering sciences and applied math if I were you, especially if you are more interested in focusing on application. You can learn more about the department from one of the videos on this page:<br>
[McCormick</a> Video Gallery | Robert R. McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science](<a href=“http://video.mccormick.northwestern.edu/]McCormick”>http://video.mccormick.northwestern.edu/)</p>

18

<p>Another school to consider in the northeast is Olin. Its a smaller specialty STEM/engineering school with a lot of hand on involvement. Check it out at [Olin</a> College](<a href=“http://www.olin.edu/]Olin”>http://www.olin.edu/)</p>

19

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<p>I don’t know about the School of Computer Science, but moving to the ECE program is not “extremely difficult” as you say. In fact, many students who are admitted into the college of engineering (CIT), but are not admitted into the ECE program eventually become ECE majors in their sophomore year.</p>

20

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<p>This is seriously a great way of looking at things.</p>

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<p>This is definitely not true! There are many schools who won’t meet EFC, though with your stats, you’d have a better chance, esp at schools where you are easily into the top 10% of students. My guy was also there and the variance in what schools wanted us to pay (or take loans for) was from 8k - 36K. His older brother also had a bit of a variance, but not quite so large.</p>

<p>My suggestion at this point is to take a little bit of time and research all the school you like with your first impression (eliminating any you don’t like and/or those like U Chicago that don’t have what you are looking for). Then apply and wait and see what happens. Once you get acceptances and financial packages, then compare. You never know who will offer you what. It all depends upon who else is applying with your stats and demographics, etc., and how well they feel you compare to who they want/need in their class. A few schools offer automatic aid, but for most, it’s competitive - or how much you get is competitive.</p>

<p>Just make sure you have a financial safety. That could end up being Pitt (they tend to offer more in merit aid than Penn State IME, but they are definitely a city school). Penn St tends to be the better engineering school though.</p>