Looking for advice on safety schools

Paying for College
1

<p>I am new to this board and am learning a lot. My D is a HS junior and we are currently looking at schools. We visited some really great schools, but we are in a tough financial situation where we make too much to qualify for any aid, but don't really see how we can afford the price tags that we are seeing. Doing the rough FA calculators our EFC would be about $27,000 which we would be really hard pressed to afford. I am willing to do loans but I have 3 kids (this is my oldest) and I have to be realistic about what I can fairly do for all of them. I also think she can take on some debt, but I don't want her buried in it. </p>

<p>We have very little savings. 5 years ago we were making much less, we live in a high COL area, and it always seemed to be something. We have a modest home, drive older cars etc.. We had terrible medical insurance which we paid a fortune for and paid a lot over the years in OOP costs(nothing catastrophic, just things like dental work, braces, ER visits, surgeries etc...). I recently went back to work FT and now have an excellent benefits package, DH also took on part time extra work and our financial picture is much better now, just in time to be crushed by the FAFSA...but this isn't really about how we could have done differently, just where to go from here.</p>

<p>My daughter is 1st or 2nd in her class, 4.0 unweighted GPA, heavy course loads, all honors/AP, lots of extra curriculars, NHS, community service, 2190 SAT(will take again in the fall), NM commended (might make SF but it's a long shot 214 in NJ). She wants to major in Chen E and doesn't want to go far from home (2-3 hrs. is ideal) Her "dream school " is Penn but even if she got in, we couldn't pay sticker price which is what I'm gathering we would have to do. SO, here are the other schools we've looked at:
Lafayette
Lehigh
Drexel
Villanova
Princeton
Rutgers</p>

<p>Rutgers is the only "safety" and she really does not want to go there(it might end of being the best choice though). She loved all of the other schools on the list. I'm looking for other ideas for schools that might give merit aid/scholarships to someone with her stats to give her options. </p>

<p>Thanks in advance for any input! This is all very overwhelming.</p>

2

<p>If you’re looking for merit aid, you may have to look a bit farther afield. The good news is that with your daughter’s stat’s, she’s got a really good shot at getting a good merit aid award if you find the right school.</p>

<p>I’m going to suggest you start [here[/url</a>], with CC’s list of guaranteed merit awards. These are awards that are automatic, based on a student’s stat’s - so if she has the stat’s, she gets the award. Geographically, they’re not what you’re looking for, but you need to know what’s out there.</p>

<p>Now, there are plenty of other schools that have competitive merit awards. The key there is to find schools where the average GPA/SAT score is well below your daughter’s. It’s the tippy-top candidates at each school that get the big merit awards, so that’s where you want her to be. Given her really wonderful GPA and class rank, that shouldn’t be a problem for her!</p>

<p>For more information about merit aid, look at [url=&lt;a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html]this”&gt;What I've learned about full-ride scholarships - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums]this</a> thread](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html][b]here[/b][/url”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html) and [this</a> one](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html]this”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html). Both older, both quite long, but with plenty of good information.</p>

<p>Off the top of my head, other possibilities for engineering schools with merit aid that aren’t too far away would be Pitt and Union College (in upstate New York), but I’m sure you’ll get plenty of other suggestions.</p>

<p>Look at Olin, as well. Yes, it’s in Massachusetts, but it’s an amazing school with affordable tuition . . . and, even though it’s highly competitive, she’d be a strong candidate. (Olin doesn’t have Chem. E., though, so maybe not.)</p>

<p>Another possibility if you’re within commuting distance of the city would be Cooper Union (which DOES have Chem E.) - but that’s really only an option if she can live at home. Otherwise, it would be too expensive.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately a 214 will be nowhere near what’s needed for NMSF in NJ (last year it was 223). Dodgersmom has given you some good links to look through. I would definitely look at the various U Alabama schools. They have great scholarships to entice top students like your D.</p>

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<p>She has her safety school, so she can put whatever she likes on her list, but none of those choices look very promising to me in terms of her getting $40K in awards which is what she would need to get in order to get the cost to the $20K level. There is no reason to exclude Penn from that list as it is no less likely to give her what you are seeking as a family. </p>

<p>One of the problems with restricting your search to right within your area is that schools in the category you are seeking like geographic diversity and tend to favor those who bring that to their schools. Getting in with those stats is not a slam dunk, much less getting substantial merit money. I remember when my one son with high stats was applying to colleges, we were so thrilled when he got a $30k scholarship. It was a bummer when we came down to earth and realized that we would still have to pay about that much again to the school.</p>

<p>Though it is possible that your DD will “win the lottery” and get a substantial award at such schools, it is highly unlikely to get more than your need met at places where there is name recognition. YOu gotta look to lesser known schools to get those kinds of awards. My SIL’s nephew got a nice award from Drexel in terms of $ amount but it was actually less than need defined by EFC. </p>

<p>U Delware, UPitt are both state schools with some merit money for OOSers that could bring the sticker cost down to where you are comfortable. Case Western has some awards, check out Stevens Institute, Worchester , Gerorgia Tech. Being female in this field helps. CMU has some awards reserved for women in the science–how much and if your DD has a shot, I don’t know. Vanderbilt is a school that is generous with financial aid and I am see some great money from Rochester and RPI. Another in state option is NJIT. A young man from DS’s school got a full ride from there and picked it over some highly selective schools that offered him zilch.</p>

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<p>Also look at Manhattan College. I’ve known kids who have gotten great deals financially from their. They do have an engineering school; I don’t know about their Chem Eng. But the money is likely there for someone with your DD’s stats at that school.</p>

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<p>*rd. I am willing to do loans but I have 3 kids (this is my oldest) and I have to be realistic about what I can fairly do for all of them. I also think she can take on some debt, but I don’t want her buried in it. *</p>

<p>Since you have 3 kids, that is 12 years of college. I don’t recommend borrowing much, because once you multiply that by 12, you’re going to have massive debt. Plus, you’ll be making payments on debt WHILE trying to help the younger ones. It would create a monster. Even if you only borrow $5k per year per child, that’s $60k of debt for your 3 girls. </p>

<p>Each D can borrow about $27k total for 4 years.
5500 frosh
6500 soph
7500 jr
7500 sr</p>

<p>Instead, tell your D what you can pay from income each year. If it’s $15k, then that’s the starting point. </p>

<p>I use $15k because that’s roughly the amount that would go towards room, board, books, fees, misc…which means she would need a full tuition scholarship to cover the rest.</p>

<p>I completely agree with the idea that she look much further than 3 hours away. The 3 hour limit in your area is too limiting to find the very large merit that she needs. </p>

<p>For instance, as a ChemE major, she would get the following from Alabama…</p>

<p>Free tuition (including the out-of-state costs)
2500 per year (from the College of Engineering)</p>

<p>Total Value: about $100,000.
These 2 stacked scholarships are ASSURED for her stats as long as she applies by Dec 1st. </p>

<p>Your remaining costs would be about $12k per year. </p>

<p>Alabama has a brand new mega-sized Science and Engineering Complex. The campus is gorgeous and the academics are strong. </p>

<p>My younger son is a ChemE student at Bama and he loves it (he’s a senior this year).</p>

7

<p>I think Pitt is a good suggestion. However, from my experience a couple of years ago, she needs to do 2 things to have a fighting chance: get her application in EARLY and shoot for 2250+. They are very numbers driven for their OOS merit; D2 got 12k and had slightly less than 2250. She politely asked for more the larger amount (full tuition?) in order to afford attending and was very firmly told no, those were going to applicants with higher SAT scores. I’m afraid I didn’t keep the email, but as I recall it was close to 2300.</p>

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<p>Wow, entomom. I know that it is getting more and more difficult to get the Chancellor’s scholarships and other awards at Pitt, but I didn’t know it was getting that difficult. Back 12 years ago and 1350 M/V SAT1 would give you a fighting chance. </p>

<p>In order for the OP’s DD to reduce cost to less than the EFC of $27K, we are talking more than $30K in aid/scholarships to cover most private schools’ costs and more than $8K for most OOS publics. Not easy to get hat kind of money, considering those thresholds just bring the cost to EFC.</p>

<p>How much does the OP feel the family, including the student can pay? $5500 in a Stafford loan is available freshman year, to the student but many schools just stick that into the aid package as part of it.</p>

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<p>^For background, D2 was accepted Nov 15, which was too late for my liking; she is a URM, but not disadvantaged. Here’s the post I made towards the end of Dec on the Pitt forum (I recall this was via an email D2 sent, I don’t think I’m so helicopter that I’d call myself :o??):</p>

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<p>Here’s the thread, it may help the OP get a feel for what it takes. This is for the class graduating in 2011, so there may be a similar one for this past cycle:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pittsburgh/1029072-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pittsburgh/1029072-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>* Back 12 years ago and 1350 M/V SAT1 would give you a fighting chance. *</p>

<p>Many schools have had to up their scholarship minimums a few times over the last 10 years or so. I can remember when my kids’ flagship gave full tuition for an ACT 28 (1250 M+CR, now it requires an ACT 32+ (M+CR 1400+)</p>

<p>I think it’s because kids are now practicing for these tests and taking the tests multiple times.</p>

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<p>OP here. Thanks so much for all of the advice. We do plan on looking at Manhattan and possibly U Del and RPI this summer. Alabama U looks like a great school but there is no way D would go that far, I was hoping that there were other schools that had similar type deals that were much closer. As far as paying out of pocket, we think we can swing $20,000/year, so wherever she winds up the rest would have to come from merit/loans. She will take the ACT in a few weeks and the SAT again in the fall, so we can hope for a higher score. She has prepared, but it has been rough with all of her regular work and the AP exams, she’ll have a bit more time over the summer.<br>
It is interesting to note that from the senior class in her school, there seem to be much more generous packages than what is being reported on this board. I am glad to hear some of this more “realistic” info so we can be prepared for whatever comes. Rutgers is a great safety and we could afford it without any help if we had to. It’s about 15 minutes from home and she could even commute for a year. She doesn’t want that but it’s a very real possibility. I will keep up my search and will report back if I find anything else. I’d welcome any other info that anyone can give me. Thanks!!!</p>

12

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<p>This means that your daughter really does not have a true safety that meet all of the following:</p>

<p>A school were she has a great chance of being admitted (preferably through EA/rolling admissions)
A school that has her major
A school that is a financially feasible option for your family
** a school where if it meets the other criteria and it is the only one that meets the other criteria, she would be happy to attend**</p>

<p>You need to run your numbers through a financial aid calculator using both the institutional and federal methodologies.</p>

<p>You need to sit down and have a straight up talk with your daughter about how much you can realistically afford to pay or borrow for her education.</p>

<p>in addition to the other threads also look here</p>

<p>[Project</a> on Student Debt: Initiatives](<a href=“http://projectonstudentdebt.org/initiatives.vp.html]Project”>http://projectonstudentdebt.org/initiatives.vp.html)</p>

<p>Your daughter must be willing to cast a wide net, because she could be missing out on some great opportunities.</p>

13

<p>mom,
If she ends up at Rutgers, which you said you can afford, I’ll bet it would be much more palatable for her if you DONT make her commute from home. At the the other colleges she would be living on campus, so let her do the same at her safety. That may make it a college she WOULD be happy to go to. </p>

<p>The other advise I have is for you to buy the Collegeboard’s SAT book soon [ you can order it online from the Collegeboard site] and have her take practice SAT test after test this summer. To us old timers on CC, it known as the “Xiggi method”, and her scores will jump a LOT if she follows it rigorously. If she can get her SAT scores in the “sweet spot” of 2340+, she will have a much better shot at merit $$ at colleges looking for students with both top GPA’s and SAT’s.</p>

<p>Your D needs to cast a MUCH wider net- the goal of BOTH staying close to home AND landing a fat merit scholarship is just not realistic- not these days with so many other top kids competing for limited $$. Even if she is clear across the country you can stay in touch with Skype, texting, etc. etc. Using the criteria of how much she “loves” a college is WAY too limiting since you need $$. I’m sure that you would LOVE a new Mercedes, but so what? How likely is it that you will find the $$ to buy one?
So open her eyes- there are colleges that would love HER and offer her $$- she just has to be realistic and look further away from home for them.</p>

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<p>If you can afford $20K/year, Cooper Union would be good to look at.</p>

<p>[Frequently</a> Asked Questions | Cooper Union](<a href=“Frequently Asked Questions | The Cooper Union”>Frequently Asked Questions | The Cooper Union)</p>

<p>I get mixed messages from your information, you say your EFC is $27K, but you don’t think you will qualify for aid? If your EFC is that level, you should qualify for aid at many schools.</p>

<p>Some other schools that would probably offer significant merit aid with those stats (and that offer Chem E) are Worcester Poly, Case Western, and Northeastern.</p>

15

<p>You have gotten some good suggestions here. </p>

<p>Is it possible for her to visit Alabama? More information might help to change her mind.</p>

<p>What are your daughter’s SPECIFIC reasons for wanting to stay close to home? Have her make a list of them, then go through them one by one and try to work them out.</p>

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</p>

<p>the problem with this statement is that cooper union has a 7% admit rate. This means that 93% of the applicants are not admitted. It is a big reach for anyone who applies to the school.</p>

<p>[Facts</a> About CU | Cooper Union](<a href=“http://cooper.edu/admissions/facts]Facts”>Facts About Cooper Union | The Cooper Union)</p>

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<p>Female engineering candidates are in demand.</p>

<p>I would apply EVERYWHERE, not just 3 hours from home.</p>

<p>You might be pleasantly surprised by the package offered to you.</p>

<p>Nothing to lose by doing this, except the application fee.</p>

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<p>True, you can’t count on admission with such a low rate. OTOH, 7% is a actually good odds for a full tuition scholarship compared to most places. Add to that the student’s stats which are higher than average for CU, and it is a good fit for a “possible big merit aid” list.</p>

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<p>momto3girlz</p>

<p>Have you read this topic?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/admissions-hindsight-lessons-learned/1259202-applied-1-college-accepted-enrolled-1-college.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/admissions-hindsight-lessons-learned/1259202-applied-1-college-accepted-enrolled-1-college.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Getting a full ride to Rutgers is not easy, however, and paying full price to Rutgers and living there is not that inexpensive, either. It definitely should be something that the OP’s DD should investigate. But getting a substantial amount of money, in this case, over $30K in grant money, when it comes to the privates is a tough proposition. Going away to the state school is going require OP’s DD to kick in some money through loans or earnings to stick to a $20K budget.</p>