Looking For Good Liberal Arts College with Strong Classical Voice Performance Opportunities

College Majors Music Major
1

I have previously received some good (and much-appreciated) advice in this forum and am back for more. My son, a bass, sings at a high level and is an excellent student. He has decided to not go straight to conservatory as he does not want to narrow his focus too much at this stage, and he is equally excited about exploring a traditional liberal arts curriculum, especially History, and pursuing his passion for classical voice at as high a level as possible. I read an earlier post from a student who was considering transferring from an excellent academic institution (even with a great voice teacher nearby) because he/she was not challenged sufficiently in terms of performance opportunities and, perhaps, limitations in the music department itself. In exploring for myself behind the scenes, I would like to help my son avoid that situation.

We know that some outstanding liberal arts universities exist with terrific music schools/conservatories within them such as the following my son is considering:

Northwestern
NYU
USC
Oberlin
Bard
BU

In this category, we are interested in any feedback in two areas. First, should other schools be on this list. Just as importantly, if anyone has a sense for the relative ways in which students at these schools can actually take classes in other areas comfortably and and without most of the others just focusing on music. I imagine that ideally, my son would spend 40 % of his time on music and 60% on a strong liberal arts curriculum.

He is also intrigued by the joint programs:

Julliard and Columbia
Curtis and Penn
New England Conservatory and Harvard or Tufts

Any actual experience with the pros and cons of these programs (other than how hard it must be to get into them)? I have heard that without centralized office or management structure, things can be a bit ad hoc and the student is more-or-less on his/her own to mesh the schedules and make it work out. Maybe he is missing other good joint programs?

Last and, maybe, most important are the liberal arts colleges without a built-in music school but which have a strong music department for classical voice, ample performance options nearby, and access to a good voice teachers on the faculty or outside. We are working on building a list which includes the following:

Yale
Princeton
Dartmouth
Harvard
University of Toronto

Weslyan
McGill
McAllister
UCLA
Vassar

Surely there are many other schools that should be on this list, and we welcome any suggestions. It is extremely hard to know but looking on the websites which schools are stronger in classical voice. My son is looking primarily in the Northeast but would be interested in the right fit in other parts of the country. And I don’t want to leave off the fact that we know these are very competitive institutions that are tough to get into. He hopes that the singing helps and will be looking for any leverage that can provide. Still, suggestions for liberal arts colleges that are slightly less competitive in admissions but which fit the bill academically and with classical voice opportunities would be much-appreciated.

Thank you for any comments and guidance on any of this!

2

Is your son a rising senior? I have a rising senior son looking at VP. So I’ll be watching this thread with interest too. A few things I’ve gleaned here from our more experienced members and many hours of reading (someone should take my laptop away at this point! I’m on fire this summer.)

So you say your son doesn’t want to head to a conservatory. But all the schools in your first list have a conservatory within the University. So if you wanted the best performance opportunities and the best music instruction at those institutions you’d audition into them via the BM Performance program. Working on a Bachelor of music degree would be 2/3-3/4 music classes.

Working on a BA in music would be more like 1/4-1/3 of your classes would be music. That you could do at a LAC or an ivy. HOWEVER, at these schools you have to really check out faculty and programs. You’d likely be working with a grad student at many ivies as an undergrad. My kid has the academics to apply, but since he’s working with high end teachers now as a high schooler he has a hard time wanting to step into an unknown with music instruction. You also may not have the same type of performance opportunities at these schools. Especially as a vocal soloist. You may need to be more proactive. Programs can really vary. My kid likely will pick some BA programs to apply to but you really need to do your homework on the individual programs.

It is also possible to work on a BA/BM at many of the schools on your first list or at the partnership programs. I’d check out the dual degree dilemma thread. These often take 5 years unless you’re coming into with a bunch of transferable credits which is possible.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1948726-double-degree-dilemma-essay-written-by-david-lane.html#latest

I’d also say in general that seems like a very reachy music list for anyone? There are a few of those I know nothing about but my kid is interested in every school on your first list except Bard and I consider all reaches. I’d make sure you have some good safety options he likes. Does he have a private teacher he works with for voice? Ours has been a wealth of information and direction too!

Anyway - I said a bunch for a newer parent, I will kick back and see what our more experienced parents have to say!

3

Just to clarify - Classical Voice at Bard is in the College as a BA and is not a BM in the Conservatory. Information on the program can be found here: http://music.bard.edu/classical-vocal-performance/

4

For voice performance look into St Olaf (both YouTube and regular website). Many students double major (BA music major/VP+ liberal arts major) although a BM is available and, added bonus for him, and basses in the St Olaf Choir are on campus like quarterbacks at Notre Dame.

5

I would suggest that you and he read the Double Degree Dilemma essay by David Lane, closer to the top of this forum. It really is about the different ways to study music, and has hypothetical individuals who want to also study liberal arts etc.

This happens a lot: you say he doesn’t want conservatory but then list several schools with conservatory programs (schools of music or conservatories within universities or colleges). Many people seem to use the term “conservatory” to describe freestanding ones, but the BM programs at university schools of music has pretty much the same curriculum and intensity (2/3-3/4 classes in music).

It sounds like your son does not want a BM program alone, since he has academic interests. So he would either do a BA in music, a double degree BA/BM, a double major within a BA, a major/minor, or a major in something else like history with music on the side (lessons, extracurricular performance). Some BA programs audition but many don’t, and a music supplement would be submitted with recording, resume and music letters of recommendation.

If he does not want a BM, then he needs to check those schools that offer that degree to see if the best opportunities go to the BM students, meaning teachers and performance opportunities. In that case, some of your first list would not be a good fit. But look at details for every single school.

Bard would be a great choice because as Spirit Manager says, VP is not in the conservatory. This avoids the problem I just mentioned. http://music.bard.edu/classical-vocal-performance/

Yale has a School of Music but it is a grad program mainly.

The NEC program with Harvard is well-used but it is certainly possible to accomplish good voice training by going to Harvard and studying privately with faculty at NEC, and performing at Harvard. Ditto many other schools but you really have to check into that, what teachers would be available, what the performance opportunities might be and so on. You could attend performances at various schools.

Vassar has a good music program. Wesleyan is strong in world music. Princeton has a performance certificate and an exchange with the Royal Academy in London. Harvard has changed its music major recently to broaden it, and also increased performance aspects of the curriculum. Tufts has a nice music dept.

Read that Double Degree Dilemma essay and see who he identifies with!

6

I would suggest looking at Luther College in Decorah, IA! Your S can easily double major in music and another subject if he so chooses, and all of the voice professors are very good. The choirs are also excellent (though I’m also biased because of the fact I am an alumna of Luther!). St. Olaf is a good choice as well (my twin brother went there).

(Edited to add St. Olaf comment)

7

If Saint Olaf is of interest, Lawrence University in Wisconsin may be as well. We are considering Luther as a safety.

8

+1 to St. Olaf and Lawrence.

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I second Lawrence U and St. Olaf and would add Peabody/John’s Hopkins, Carnegie Melon and Vanderbilt to the list. It is VERY DIFFICULT to get top notch, Conservatory level Vocal Training AND a top notch, LAC style BA as well; at the best programs, VP teachers are going to be jealous with your S’s time (basically, there may be more to do than there are hours in the day). It IS possible, however, especially with a 5 year, double degree program and/or a less intense VP program. I agree that these are almost all extremely reachy and expensive programs, so be sure to add in some more relative academic, talent, and financial safeties. And perhaps start exploring fit issues like program size and location. Best wishes!

10

Oberlin has a double degree 5-year program. Students can double degree in several ways through the college and conservatory. BA/BA or BA/BM and for a crazy few BM/BM. My D completed her BM (voice) but had friends in dual degree. Based on my conversations with them, the science ones were the hardest to manage due to lab, practice and rehearsal schedules. Humanities was more doable. To do a BA/BM, you must be accepted to both the college and con. They have different admissions offices and requirements.

11

Look at Case Western Reserve University/CIM voice program:
http://music.case.edu/about/joint-program-with-cim/
http://music.case.edu/prospective-undergraduate-students/audition-information/
http://music.case.edu/ugrad-academic-programs/b-a-in-music-program-information/

Son played horn and majored in physics at Case. He was not a music major or minor, though
which will take more time away from the arts and sciences degree. Case offers strong curriculum in history and philosophy. U of Chicago grads are hired by Case frequently.

http://history.case.edu

Cleveland is very musically oriented, and Cleveland Orchestra plays on campus at Severence Hall. The voice teachers are phenomenal in Cleveland.

12

How about Blaire School of Music at Vanderbilt U:
https://blair.vanderbilt.edu/departments/voice.php

We visited with horn teachers and it seemed doable to minor in music and major in a liberal arts major at Vandy.

We also liked Rice U in Houston for music/liberal arts combinations.

Both Rice and Vanderbilt are more very difficult to get into schools, and you need to round out list with safeties and matches.

Case Western Reserve/CIM attracts a lot of double majors, and they have wonderful performance venues, see Harkenss Hall, Maltz Performing Arts Center and Severence Hall.
https://case.edu/maltzcenter/
https://www.cim.edu/concerts-events/facilities
http://music.case.edu/facilities/florence-harkness-memorial-chapel/
https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/plan-your-visit/severance-hall/

Son performed in all of these great venues with a joint Case/CIM wind ensemble.
Case students can buy season pass for the Cleveland Orchestra at a huge discount and
buy extra seats as well. The listening option are phenomenal at Case/CIM for the liberal arts student
who wants a music and art rich city.

Cleveland Art Museum is free very day and used by Case Western’s faculty as well as a learning lab for art history classes, but other liberal arts classes use this museum, all walking distance from dorms:
http://www.clevelandart.org

13

I really appreciate the time thought that has gone into these comments. Thank you! I get the themes and it’s good to hear them emphasized: create a balanced list of schools and not all the difficult/elite ones (for lots of reasons); find the right fit for the student; explore. I appreciate the suggestions about good-sounding schools that I didn’t know so much about. Being new at this, I’m not sure whether this goes to all on the thread. I hope so.

14

Yes you posted that to everyone, good luck. You can find your original thread in two ways, go to Music Major and look for your title, OR go to your name and your thread, since you only have on thread so far, its easy for you to find it again, even if it gets pushed down by inactivity. You can wake up your thread by asking another question on there, about say auditions or visits as questions come up on this topic.

15

Lots of good info here; posting one more vote for St. Olaf — excellent academics with both BA and BM options in vocal performance, plus the possibility of significant merit aid (academic and music) depending on your son’s achievement and talent. Good luck!

16

Um ya ya! Another vote for St. Olaf, the only school whose fight song is a polka.

17

Some good advice here! To me your son seems like a fit for Oberlin’s double degree: a BM and a BA in history. It’s five years but the students who do it are amazing. https://www.oberlin.edu/admissions-and-aid/double-degree-program

18

Thank you all. In regard to auditions, what are people’s experiences on how to accomplish this at the colleges/universities without a school of music/conservatory within (where an audition is part of the application process)? Various people have told me that my son should attempt to visit a music faculty member on his regular campus visit and, if possible, have a “voice lesson”. The idea is that he will get to know the faculty member, and vice versa, and with any luck, the faculty member would be inclined to weigh in favorably with admissions. But how’ve does one accomplish that? I imagine that there’s a wide range of differences in the way schools handle this. Of course, it’s great to try to leverage ability in the arts, as one would in a much more organized way with sports, but how is this best done without overreaching and given that all the good schools welcome tapes to be sent in which they forward for review by the music faculty. In planning a tour of different campuses, it’s certainly challenging to attempt to organize meetings with faculty, but we don’t want to miss doing this if it would be helpful on various levels.

19

The student should…
Look at the music faculty’s biography as provided online by the college (don’t go digging into Facebook and Wikipedia :wink: ) and reach out to the one he’d like to work with. Include a link or two to actual performances and ask whether your voice is one the professor could see themselves working with.
The faculty will then reply (if not, it’s also an answer).

Regarding auditions, check to see if there are music scholarships and see if there’s a process described there.

20

For non-audition schools ( and most but not all BA programs do not audition for admission, though there are auditions for extracurricular performance in the fall of freshman year), your son would submit a music supplement to the common app that would include a recording, a music resume, and letters of recommendation from a teacher and/or director, or two teachers. Sometimes concert programs or media articles if appropriate.

We didn’t reach out to faculty until after admission, at BA programs, Ditto with attending classes. We did attend concerts and tour the schools.

Many people do indeed seek private lessons. It can be a good way to determine fit. But we felt, for a BA program, that it was more appropriate to wait until acceptance and it worked out fine.

Performance faculty at a BA program function differently from a BM program. There may not be any actual performance classes and they may be part-time.

Even at conservatories, faculty often don’t respond to emails. I would not see that as a sign of anything other than that they are busy with their real work, teaching students . We have had that experience with faculty who were, in the end, interested in the kid. But before acceptance, it can be better to work through the admissions office versus directly with the teacher.