Looking for help deciding between Texas A&M and Arizona (National Merit)

Then there is no need for you to even explore the TAMU Corps of Cadets. It is military, pure and simple. Also, literally 97% of TAMU students are from the state of Texas (and a I bet a lot of the other 3% are children of Texans who have moved away).

Based on what you have said, I think you would be more comfortable at the University of Arizona.

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At A&M, the GPA required to maintain your scholarship is 3.5, which is significantly higher than average GPA for freshman students in its college of engineering.
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That is crazy! That is a set up so that they don’t have to pay it all four years.

@biomedicaltennis‌ What would you do if you lost your award? Would your parents then just happily pay? If not, then TAMU shouldn’t be on the table.

It is VERY easy for an eng’g students to drop below a 3.5

Are you premed?

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did you ever hear of a National Merit student NOT maintaining a scholarship?
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that’s not really the right question. For non-eng’g majors, maintaining the 3.5 is typically MUCH, MUCH easier.

The question should be: How many NMF engineering students did you know, and how many had trouble maintaining the 3.5…and how many lost their awards.

Again, if your family won’t pay if you lose your award to such an unreasonable standard, you would be taking a HUGE risk. Once you’re no longer an incoming frosh, you won’t have these opps to get large merit elsewhere as a transfer. NOT AT ALL.

“Can a left-leaning valedictorian from Ohio fit in at either of these big southern state schools?”

Speaking only for myself as a left-leaning Midwesterner, I can imagine myself at Arizona much more easily than A&M. Huge respect for TAMU – it’s a great school with lots of enthusiastic alumni, and especially strong in engineering – but it has a unique culture that doesn’t work for everyone. TAMU rightly takes pride in the effort it makes to get everyone on the same page. For good and for ill, Arizona is a lot more like a typical state university with many different cultures and scenes, none of which is dominant. You won’t have to swim against the current as a northern liberal. In your shoes, I would make great efforts to try and visit.

AZ isn’t really “Southern”. Yes, it’s in the Sunbelt and Southwest, but it’s much more “Western” and has a ton of Northern transplants.

The following is just my personal experience, and is somewhat dated. So, take it with a grain of salt… I went to A&M many years ago (Class of '87) on a NM+Presidential Scholars full ride. I do not recall the minimum GPA requirement back then, but I wasn’t in the College of Engineering.

I was a middle-of-the-road Californian when I went in and came out strongly liberal as a reaction to the campus, which is/was strongly conservative both politically and religiously. Since I didn’t go to bonfire or football games, I was a “2 percenter.” I would have left A&M if I hadn’t been able to find my people, who were a rebel alliance of SF fans, gamers, alternative music fans, the few LBGQ people (T at A&M–hah!), political protesters, and some of the journalists. There were maybe 300 of us lefties on the whole campus. Almost being charged with inciting to riot for stepping on some “memorial grass” makes you feel special. Got to hear James Watt (look him up) and Jerry Falwell speak to (mostly) adoring crowds.

I always felt the “Howdy” thing was more passive-aggressive than friendly.

As people have said, the Corps of Cadets is very militaristic. It’s kind of like frat meets The Citadel (the one in S. Carolina).

@NROTCgrad‌ Thanks for your insight! I agree with everything you’re saying. Thus far, I’ve gotten the vibe that A&M will serve students that support the specific traditions they want to uphold while Arizona is less focused on such concerns. I respect both universities for their respective administration styles, but they are clearly different as far as I can tell.

Also, assuming this isn’t a poor assumption based on your username, thanks for your service.

@mom2collegekids My parents likely wouldn’t be all too happy! Ultimately, the most important factor in my college decision process is cost. It has always been my goal to graduate college without debt, and having this scholarship fall through would make such an aspiration impossible to achieve! If I lost this award I’d likely lose my mind :scream:

Regarding my parents, I come from one of the many middle class families that receives little need-based aid despite the fact that we certainly need the aid. For that reason, I’ve told my parents time and again that I will do my best to fund my own education (with the help of various merit scholarship programs). They’ve already done so much to support my education and growth, so it is my goal to ensure that college is not a financial burden. My parents certainly would not be HAPPY to find out that my scholarship was not to be renewed, especially at Texas A&M given their liberal political views. They aren’t particularly fond of me attending A&M even if they don’t have to pay a dime, but they also want me to decide for myself.

Regarding the GPA requirement, thank you confirming the fears invoked in me by the previous posters. I mean this in all sincerity! I could not imagine the frustration of losing everything that I have worked for strictly due to grades. Especially since grades are secretly subjective to a certain extent AND professors a A&M could ensure that I get a 3.4 as a freshman if they really felt like it. Sounds far-fetched, but I don;t intend to take chances with my education!

@Hanna Thanks for your insight! I also respect both of these schools to the same extent as you, and agree that Arizona seems to be the better fit socially. I will be certain to visit both if it’s possible!

If I may, where did you attend college?

Also, is “rightly” meant to be a double entendre? Just curious :blush:

@PurpleTitan Good point! I never considered looking at the demographic makeup of each of these schools by U.S states. I’ll be sure to do that.

@Ynotgo Thanks for sharing your personal experiences! I’d be interested in knowing what you would have done with your college decision if you could go back in time and change it! Your post was very helpful.

Regarding Watt, which one:

  • Sir James Watt (surgeon) (1914–2009), British surgeon, Medical Director-General of the Royal Navy
  • James G. Watt (born 1938), former US Secretary of the Interior
  • Jim Watt (boxer) (born 1948), Scottish boxer
  • Jim Watt (ice hockey) (born 1950), American ice hockey player
  • James Wilfrid Watt (born 1951), British ambassador
  • James Watt (loyalist) (born 1952), former Northern Irish loyalist paramilitary

James G. Watt, Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior

Well, there wasn’t an Internet back then, so I would have had to go to the counseling office of some school other than my small religious high school to get advice. If I could change things, I would have asked my grandmother to set aside money for college for me rather than paying for the private religious school with poor academics for all of K-12. I then would have been able to afford UC Berkeley. I was also admitted to MIT and RPI and my expected contribution was $9K out of about $15K back then, so perhaps I could have attended one of those with my grandmother’s help and small loans. My sister took small loans to attend Cal Poly SLO and paid them off quickly, but I was not aware that loans were available to me other than loans my parents would need to get.

The local public HS where I grew up now has >100 NMSF per year, and it was a good school back then. I shadowed a student there one day and was amazed at how intelligent and interesting the other students and classes were. I should have quit attending the religious school that day.

All that said, I did meet a great husband at A&M and I have an understanding of the whole red state/blue state thing that I would not have been able to fathom had I not lived in Texas for 4 years. I met geophysics undergrads who didn’t “believe” in plate tectonics. I’m sure you could now meet undergrads in meteorology who don’t “believe” in climate change. I met several students who had never left the state of Texas and hoped that they could live their entire lives without leaving. It was eye-opening.

The professors and the graduate students are not like the undergrads, and I can’t think of any professors who were not at least “good” and a number of them were memorably great.

Also, be aware that if you do not graduate in 4 years, you lose your OOS waiver after that time. Depending on how the costs have changed, that can be more significant than loosing scholarships. I had to take some summer classes to meet some core requirements in history and economics order to graduate on time after changing my major.

@Ynotgo I figured it was one of those first two guys, but now it seems blatantly obvious that I should have known given the political background of A&M and the Reagan administration, respectively.

It’s interesting how different our college decisions must be. My school is similar to yours in that I’m only the second semifinalist in 5 years at my school.Congrats on being named a finalist/scholar out of California! I’m sure it’s more difficult than Ohio given the population difference.

Your experiences are certainly enlightening, I suppose. That’s a big part of my college decisions process, as I haven’t been exposed to much diversity here in the Midwest. I’d certainly like to, so I don’t see myself staying in state.

Thanks for all your help! Hopefully I’ll get a chance to visit and do an overnight to get a better perspective on the lifestyle and campus environment.

Congratulations to you also! Good luck with whatever choices you make! (I don’t know that California used to be as difficult as it is now; the population has changed in many ways.)

You might want to rethink testing out of all the ‘easier’ classes. I’ve seen too many students lose scholarships in their first semester. It’s ok to take some courses that are not so difficult to free up some of your time for the more difficult courses.

I am actually ambivalent about TAMU traditions. Went there for grad school which is very different than being an undergrad but still you see things. Didn’t go to any football games. Asked fans leaving the game who won. They looked at me like I was from Mars. Funny episode, but overall I thought but a little too devoted for my taste. On the other hand I was never so proud to be a A & M grad as when the students protected a fallen soldiers family from that horrible Westboro church crowd. We have also been considering Texas A & M and Arizona State but really uncomfortable with the party reputation of ASU. On the other hand I have heard about some local students who have been very happy there.

Or, if you free up some time in your schedule through AP credits, there are always really interesting “easy” classes at any college. Now with the internet they will be easier to find, rather than relying on word of mouth. When I was at A&M, some of my most memorable classes were outside my major: Philosophy of Art (wow! McDermott is still teaching; if you decide on A&M take one of his classes if you can), History of Science (great professor, but forgot his name), Science Fiction Literature (Dr. Kroitor, great professor, RIP), Astronomy Lab (just really fun), and Fencing. And, I still changed my major and graduated in 4 years.

Aggieland Saturday is coming up Feb 14 if you are thinking of visiting soon but we just booked a hotel and it is getting very difficult to find rooms fyi