<p>bookworm, I think that’s a reasonable option! </p>
<p>thumper, I’ve heard of Rhodes, but I see that it’s in the South. His original parameters didn’t include the South. I will see where he stands when I meet with him again in the summer.</p>
<p>I’ll look into it.</p>
<p>ucb, thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.</p>
<p>I will pass along the message that pre-med in California is brutal. Guess they need to know that going in.</p>
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Exactly! This was my educated guess slightly less than a decade ago when DS was applying to college.</p>
<p>Because I was fully aware that DS definitely wanted a more balanced life beyond the “premed life”, I tried my best to steer him away from any such an “unhealthy” environment. However, he once told us that in a mid term exam of the introductory bio class (mind you, a majority of students have had a 5 on AP test under their belts), the class average is 46 out of 100! I wonder how many “bumps” or even “scars” he had in college - even though he was always a good tester before college. (He did well in the end though.)</p>
<p>Another school to check would be Mullenberg. </p>
<p>ETA…Tulane is further south than Rhodes…by a lot. Just saying!</p>
<p>Does College of Charleston give discounted tuition if kids get scholarships?</p>
<p>Muhlenberg looks interesting. I’ll add it to look at.</p>
<p>mcat, where is your son again? (sorry if I missed that)</p>
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<p>Ok…I’m confused. If his parameters don’t include the south, why would Tulane and College of Charleston be considered, but not Rhodes? Both are further south than Rhodes.</p>
<p>College of Charleston does have some scholarships for high achieving students. So does University of South Carolina. Some of the University of South Carolina scholarships reduce tuition to the instate rate…a terrific deal…and I think a great school. You might want to check that as well. </p>
<p>Rhodes has great merit aid for high achievers…and excellent opportunities for undergrad research as well.</p>
<p>sbjdorlo, Try to be a little bit ambiguous here: He is at a school in NE (maybe 100 -150 miles or 2.5 hours of driving distance, southwest from where your S is at.)</p>
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<p>Is it just Cal or pre-med in general? My doctor graduated from University of Colorado, a guy that likes to ski but he said during pre-med years he rarely see the sunlight either due to lots of studying. That’s why he was pale as he was telling me to take more Vitamin D(IIRC).</p>
<p>Pretty sure the pre-med competition is everywhere, but variations in the number of in-state public (i.e. less expensive) medical school spots relative to the size of the pre-med applicant pool can mean a higher or lower threshold for in-state public medical school admission depending on what state one is a resident of. California supposedly has a relative shortage of spots in the in-state public medical schools compared to other states.</p>
<p>the other variation is the sheer number of undergrads who are med school dreaming’. </p>
<p>I would guess that the % is of premed is higher than in many other states. Add in the fact that four of the instate med schools are ranked in the top 15 nationally, and they have national admissions numbers (high GPA+MCAT) to match. There are essentially three ('SC, Davis & Irvine) current med instate schools for the ‘average’ premed applicant. With Riverside opening, that will make four. (Loma Linda targets a special population.)</p>
<p>Which four? I am aware of ucsf, stanford and (the happy one) ucla. Is UC San Diego a top 15? (I heard of San Diego’s BME program though, but it is a PhD program, I think.)</p>
<p>I am not familiar with this side of the country in terms of its med schools. Never pay attention to it.</p>
<p>For research , UCSD is in top 15, actual rank is #14 according to US news
<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings?int=98fd08”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings?int=98fd08</a></p>
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<p>This is not a surprise. The incentives given by medical school admissions do not reward course rigor in any obvious way, beyond the minimum level of rigor (courses with labs for science majors, which means that physics for biology majors is acceptable, and physics for physics majors gives no admission advantage). This is the opposite of high school, where college admissions generally rewards choosing more rigorous courses.</p>
<p>A family of 4 with a $90K/year income probably would have a net COA of under $20K/year at many of the selective, private, “full need” schools (<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2013/09/18/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need-2014”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2013/09/18/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need-2014</a>). With a 1360 M+CR, and the C in AP Chem, he may want to consider some of the less selective of these schools. Run the Net Price Calculators for Bates, Colby, Holy Cross, F&M, Macalester, Occidental, and Richmond. Any of these would be fine for a pre-med bio major. </p>
<p>I ran a few estimates on College Abacus. Here’s what I got:</p>
<p>$22,732 Holy Cross ($35,100 in aid)
$22,572 Cal Poly Pomona (zero aid)
$21,186 Cal State - Bakersfield (zero aid)
$20,496 Macalester ($37,982 in aid)</p>
<p>$18,369 Bates ($43,531 in aid)
$17,830 U Richmond ($41,800 in aid)
$15,360 Colby ($44,650 in aid)</p>
<p>YMMV. I specified that this is a family of 4 with $90K income. I had to make other assumptions about assets, deductions, etc., that may not be accurate for this family.</p>
<p><<<<
this kid seems to be good in math and not bio, it’s a mistake to think one should major in biology for pre-med.
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<p>I agree. Major in what he’s strong in. However, since med school is iffy, he should pick a major that would lead to a Plan B career. there are too many bio majors anyway.</p>
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<p>The California publics are not unusual in having separate physics, math, and/or chemistry courses for biology majors and pre-meds, versus the ones for engineering majors. The biology major and pre-med versions are for “STEM majors” (since biology is a STEM major), but not for physics, math, chemistry, or engineering majors.
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<p>I understood what you wrote, but probably could have been more clear in my answer.</p>
<p>at many schools, the bio, chem, physics, math, and eng’g students take the same science classes…often called: Principles of Biology, General Chemistry, etc. The non-hard-science premeds in other subjects also take those classes.</p>
<p>The other majors, such as nursing, take easier versions.</p>
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<p>regional differences in salaries. if a calif employer was hiring two EEs…one from SLO and one from CSU, each new-hire would get the same pay. The same would happen if that employer was in Colorado.</p>
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<p>Is it just Cal or pre-med in general? My doctor graduated from University of Colorado, a guy that likes to ski but he said during pre-med years he rarely see the sunlight either due to lots of studying. That’s why he was pale as he was telling me to take more Vitamin D(IIRC).
<<<<</p>
<p>Calif is particularly brutal because of the number of calif applicants to med school vs the number of calif public med school SEATS.</p>
<p>In other states, the numbers are not so challenging. </p>
<p>If I remember correctly, for example:<br>
Calif has 4 times as many applicants than it has in seats in Calif public SOMs. Compare that to Michigan which only has 2 times as many applicants than it has seats in Mich public SOMs</p>
<p>Ok, for the simpleton in me, does this mean it’s better to apply to med schools outside of California? Does it mean to attend u/g college outside of California? Or both? Obviously, one can’t help being a resident here, but I would certainly like to advise my friend in the correct way.</p>
<p>tk–thank you for running some of the calculators. That seems accurate, at least based on some calculators we ran last fall.</p>
<p>Once summer hits, the mom will have more time to work with her son.</p>
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Don’t limit it to California. There are more medical schools in NY for example, IIRC, there are 13 total.</p>
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If he is sure for medical school, go to the cheapest u/g, for me it’s UC, for others it could be OOS.</p>
<p>UC over Cal State–looks better for med school? UCR over SLO, say?</p>
<p>I don’t know about SLO because I agree with mom2ck, its strength is engineering, it tends to be less focus in sciences. But the CSLB and CS Fullerton have provide good results to my friends.</p>
<p>Here’s what I would predict (although a lot depends on details of one’s personal circumstances):</p>
<p>For a $90K income with 2 kids, the net costs likely will be lowest at some of the private, “full need” schools;
net costs will be a little higher at a Cal State;
net costs will be a little higher still at a UC.</p>
<p>Assuming ~equal GPAs and MCAT scores, none will look significantly better to most med schools than the others.</p>