Looking for schools for techy junior son to consider

Parents Forum
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<p>We're just back from a college tour of the east coast: Columbia, swarthmore, lehigh, wesleyan, brown, tufts, MIT, northeastern, franklin olin, amherst</p>

<p>My son fell in love with Franklin Olin, even though he's not sure he wants to be an engineer. He just loved the school and the people in it. He will apply to Swarthmore, Brown, and MIT. And Harvey Mudd in California (where we live). Probably Tufts and Wesleyan, too. He's considering Carnegie-Mellon.</p>

<p>He found things to like at almost all the schools we visited. He saw benefit to the small and the larger. He preferred schools that had a nice campus. He loved MIT but not that is was "so urban."</p>

<p>His interests are math, computer science, "making science fiction into a reality." But he's also interested in lots of other things--so a school where he could dip into liberal arts would be nice for him. He's really still trying to figure this out.</p>

<p>He's not sure though that he wants to go to an "only" tech school and is resisting a school (except for Olin) where he has to declare as an engineer from the beginning--though he wants it to be an option.</p>

<p>He's got excellent scores, grades and a rigorous high school curriculum. His extra curriculars are martial arts (he'll be getting his black belt senior year) and student gov't (running for president senior year) He's also a passionate origami folder and designer. That's been his strongest passion outside of school since he was a little kid. He's a bass in the school chamber choir, too. Loves music for pleasure.</p>

<p>He'll have to get financial aid wherever he goes--we don't have the money to pay for a top tier school. He'll be eligible for need-based aid, but merit money wouldn't hurt.</p>

<p>I know that getting into the top schools he's considering is a crap shoot. Do you have any other suggestions--schools that are strong in math and science, but don't require admission to a separate engineering school? Both top schools and those a few rungs below? What else should be on our radar screen? He's open to a variety of locations.</p>

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<p>Wow, that’s swell that your son found something to like at each school! From his interests, it sounds to me as if Carnegie Mellon (as he is considering) would be a great fit. Although it is super techy, it is a complete university, so if he changes his mind about engineering, he can avoid transferring to another school. My daughter is at Pitt, which is right next door, and a good friend of hers is a junior at CMU. For the right kid, it’s a wonderful school, and the academics are top-notch.</p>

<p>The caveats would be that CMU is not a rah-rah “fun” school: not a lot of sports rooting, and not a whole lot of school spirit. And like Cornell, CMU is divided up into different colleges, and I don’t know how easy it is to take classes in the various divisions. But maybe other parents will weigh in. Another downside is that CMU is not known for the generosity of its financial aid.</p>

<p>I will tell you that the Oakland area of Pittsburgh, where CMU and Pitt are located, is a great neighborhood for college kids with lots of restaurants and things to do. Your son should definitely visit, do one of the sleeping-bag weekends and check it out.</p>

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<p>^^ Son visiting CMU right now for Sleeping Bag Weekend. So far so good.</p>

<p>For my math/sciency kid, we added</p>

<p>U of Rochester
RPI
Case Western</p>

<p>as match schools. All give merit aid without separate application process (10-22.5K for us). I understand U of R likes for the student to visit and interview for the merit (won’t find it on website but CC wisdom). Case has no app fee :slight_smile: and no additional essays beyond common app. </p>

<p>Hopkins should also be in the mix but merit aid is hard to come by.</p>

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<p>Many of the schools on your list do not give merit aid.
Stanford would be a natural choice for CA techy kid (and they are generous with need-based aid). It also fits all your preferences nicely…</p>

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<p>I suggest you also look into Rice. It has very strong engineering and science programs, but with the flexibility of changing majors easily into non-techy areas. It’s a small research university with a beautiful campus, down-to-earth collaborative and friendly student body, residential college system (no Greek system), abundant research opportunities for undergrads, great faculty, and the accessibility of a large city. (It also has been awarding merit scholarships to about 1/3 of its accepted students, with no separate scholarship application to fill out.)</p>

<p>You can check it out virtually here: <a href=“http://www.rice.edu/virtualtours/[/url]”>http://www.rice.edu/virtualtours/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>He’ll have to get financial aid wherever he goes–we don’t have the money to pay for a top tier school. He’ll be eligible for need-based aid, but merit money wouldn’t hurt.</p>

<p>If you’ll need FA, then you need to determine whether you’ll qualify. You don’t want to be one of these people that next year is in shock because your FA packages have big loans or expect a huge contribution from you. </p>

<p>Many people are shocked to find out that their EFC is much higher than they can afford. If that is the case with you, then you’ll need a different strategy, otherwise you’ll end up with unaffordable FA packages. </p>

<p>So, find out what your EFC is using both Federal Methodology and Institutional Methodology. (most privates use IM, and most publics use FM). </p>

<p>So, use this link and do each methodology… IF there is a non-custodial parent involved, his income will likely be considered at top schools.</p>

<p>[FinAid</a> | Calculators | Expected Family Contribution (EFC) and Financial Aid](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Expected Family Contribution (EFC) Calculator - Finaid)</p>

<p>Be aware that OOS publics generally don’t have the money to meet need - especially for out of state students. Therefore, be sure to include some schools that will give him assured BIG merit for his stats. </p>

<p>If you have an unaffordable EFC, then small scholarships won’t help because they will only get applied towards need and not towards EFC. To reduce EFC, a student needs to get a huge merit scholarship that exceeds need and cuts into EFC.</p>

<p>What are his stats? What is his GPA and his ACT/SAT (including SAT breakdown)? That can also influence his aid package. If his stats are not high for the school, then his aid package could suffer. </p>

<p>After you determine what your EFC is, you can then come up with a strategy of reach, match, and financial safety schools.</p>

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<p>He sounds like a great kid, and with some unusual interests for a math/compsci major. That used to pique MIT’s attention in past years; he should emphasize it in his application.</p>

<p>It’s an expensive world, these top-ranked colleges. You’ll need to separate your expected need-based award from what you require in merit money. Find an EFC calculator (collegeboard.com has one) and focus on whether you can consider institutions that won’t give merit dollars.</p>

<p>Rice is an excellent recommendation; its tuition offers a considerable savings over its peers. Carnegie Mellon is not a good rec because of its soaring costs and tendency to “gap” - after need-based award, loans and possibly a small merit scholarship, they still don’t completely hit your EFC. You can look on the CMU board for stories of FA offers to see what I mean.</p>

<p>Your son will have many opportunities, including generous offers to schools in the second tier and below. It sounds like these will have to be part of your discussion. You’ve made a good start, but financial safeties and compromises are a modern reality; don’t overlook them.</p>

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<p>I wanted to put in my votes for you to consider Rochester and Case as well. Case has a “single door” admission which I believe makes it relatively easy to switch into or out of engineering.</p>

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<p>I was asked to post my son’s stats. He’s got 34 on the ACT, 1510 combined on the SAT, 790 Chem SAT test, 235 PSAT. He’ll be taking Biology, Physics and US History SAT IIs this spring. He’s a straight A student…Junior year classes are AP Bio, AP Physics, Calc BC, AP US History, English and Chamber Choir–a very intense load. He’s a scholarship student at a small college prep high school in Santa Cruz, California.</p>

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<p>Thirding Case Western - your son will most likely receive merit aid that is pretty much ~full tuition (my little brother and I both did, with similar stats, making CWRU cheaper than our state’s flagship). Case Western has a few scholarships that have hard cutoffs for GPA / SAT, but if you score above their requirements, you get money without having to fill out any additional paperwork. Additionally, they accept the common app and waive the application fee if you apply online.</p>

<p>Also, as an MIT student, I feel obligated to chime in that I thought our campus was ‘too urban’ at first and that I bemoaned the lack of trees, but I have grown to love it for its other charms :)</p>

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<p>^Sounds like he’s a really strong student, so that really opens a lot of doors! </p>

<p>I, myself, am also a student, but with what sound like similar interests - I’m very interested in engineering, but wanted to have other options, just in case.</p>

<p>I would definitely second the recommendation of Case Western - my stats were a little bit less strong than your son’s, though not by a huge amount, but I got a very nice merit scholarship from them (I don’t qualify for any FA). </p>

<p>I would also suggest Carnegie Mellon - as some people said, the FA can be a little iffy, but it sounds like it would be a really great match. (I’m a little biased, though - I’m strongly considering attending!) If he starts out in the School of Computer Science or the Carnegie Institute of Technology (engineering), it is most likely possible to transfer to the Mellon College of Science or Humanities and Social Sciences, should he desire to do so. It’s hard to go the other way around. </p>

<p>Swarthmore is an amazing, amazing school - I applied there EDII, but didn’t get in. They have an excellent engineering program for someone who wants to explore liberal arts. They don’t award degrees in specific areas (meaning no MechE, ChemE, EE), just a general degree in Engineering - I don’t know if that matters to your son. I got the idea that most people go to grad school, and if they go to grad school for engineering, that’s when they specialize. Another thing is that while it’s very small, there is great research going on, and a great deal of it, but perhaps not as much as at larger research university. Nonetheless, I think Swarthmore is a fabulous school, and I loved it’s engineering program. However, it’s definitely not going to be anything like engineering at, say, Olin. I think it might not work out well for someone with really specific interests within engineering, but that doesn’t sounds like your son. And obviously, they have top notch math and CS as well. </p>

<p>Case and Swarthmore are definitely more flexible than CMU, but I would still recommend looking at all 3.</p>

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<p>You may want to consider CalTech. A top highly rated science and engineering school, similar to Harvey Mudd in some respects (though not all), no separate engineering admission and located in So Cal. Top school for math. You can dip into liberal arts in Caltech in the sense they do offer some options in that area, but it is not a school that you should go if your S is not deep in to science and engineering. Similar to Harvey Mudd in the focus on science and engineering but Harvey Mudd has the consortium where you can get a liberal arts exposure, which Caltech does not.</p>

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<p>Your son sounds great-and has some of the same interests as our son, who graduated from Brown and is now working in Silicon Valley. Our son was also taken with Olin, but did not want to lock in to engineering. He did end up majoring in computer science and is, i believe, now called a “software engineer.”</p>

<p>Tufts financial aid is less than Brown, and Brown gives less aid than Harvard, Yale, probably other Ivies, Amherst, Williams. Not sure about Swarthmore’s aid. Great school, as you say.</p>

<p>I would add that Brown uses undergrads as TA’s, in computer science, and between that, a job as a webmaster on campus, and connections to great summer internships, our son paid for 2/3 of his Brown education himself (and his aid got better every year).</p>

<p>Does Olin still have free tuition? We know someone who did end up going there, and is absolutely happy.</p>

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<p>You might want to look at University of Maryland, College Park. It has one of the best CS programs in the country (was rated best last year above MIT but that may have been at the graduate level), and is strong in math and engineering. UM has a nice honors program where the honors kids are housed together making the big campus smaller. They are pretty generous with aid, and with your son’s stats he might qualify for the Banneker Key which is partial tuition or a full ride. They have other merit scholarships, too. They do look for strong OOS students. We had never really considered UM until visiting and really liked it. Let me know if you want further info about the school, area, etc.</p>

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<p>Have you been over to the Scholarships and Financial Aid forum? You might want to look into some of the universities that give full rides to National Merit Finalists.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>My son was a computer science major at the University of Maryland at College Park and had a very positive experience. He is now in a computer science Ph.D. program at the University of California, San Diego, and he wasn’t one of the best in his class. The ones who were at the top are now in graduate school at places like MIT.</p>

<p>So yes, I think that school is worth considering. </p>

<p>And why isn’t Cornell on the list? Although engineers do have to declare that they’re engineers coming in, it’s quite easy to transfer into something else if engineering doesn’t work out. And Cornell engineering is a top program, on a nice campus that is not at all urban. There are no merit scholarships, though.</p>

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<p>Agree with the posters above re. Rice, RPI and Case. RPI and Case in particular give good merit aid, which would lower the cost to that of a U of CA. CA kids are highly desirable there too - would add to their geographic diversity. S is a full-pay senior engineer at Cornell, and loves it there.</p>

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<p>sounds like a good option…we’ll check it out. my son hasn’t thought about texas (he’s a bit of a coastal snob), but it sounds like it could be a good fit.</p>

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<p>Midswesterner, if you have any suggestions for those second tier schools and financial safeties in our case, I’d love to hear them. It’s easy to pick the top schools, not as easy to know what to choose for safety, fiscal and otherwise.</p>

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<p>mazewander,</p>

<p>we’ve looked at Cal Tech, but it looks like students there are buried in work and nothing but work from the reports we’ve read…even much more so than MIT and some of the other demanding schools. I think my son wants more of a sense of spirit and fun (like the hacks at MIT, for instance)</p>