I’m about to head to a top LAC (think Amherst/Williams) and I don’t know if this is such a good idea for a pre med…
Since the school is selective, the students I have talked to so far said they don’t get to have a lot of clinical experience, other than during the summers. Is this bad? What are some types of clinical experience? How do you get to shadow doctors if you don’t know any?
Some kids say that they can’t study abroad because they have to take so many pre med requirements in the first two years…
I don’t know if I’m choosing the right path for me. I have gotten into other big research (state) universities, but I like this LAC better (or that’s what I think, at least). I am also afraid of getting a lower GPA at this school.
I don’t want to take a gap year, but I also want to end up at a top 20 ranked med school. Should that even be my goal? I’m willing to work very hard, but I just don’t think I’ll get many opportunities, if I won’t have time to do things medical schools would like throughout the year?
I don’t know how low my GPA will be exactly… but LAC average GPAs, especially for bio aren’t that high. Would I be better off going to state universities where I would be in the top 5-10%? I don’t know about fit yet, I think I like all of the schools, but the idea of attending a LAC sounds better. I just don’t want a really low GPA. I am graduating high school with a 4.0 UW/5.4W
You will be fine for medical admissions coming from a top LAC. Average GPAs tend to be higher at private Universities than public universities and if you want to go to one of the top medical schools, your College prestige will matter. You can do research in science at a LAC and you can get clinical experience at home during the summer, or probably near your College. If you plan your class schedule properly you can do time abroad. If you want your undergraduate education to be more intimate with small classes, lots of individual attention and doing a lot of writing than a LAC is better for you. If you prefer more large classes, multiple choice exams and anonymity than a large public school may be better for you. Public state Colleges are also not necessarily less competitive than their private counterparts. UCB, UCLA and UCSD for example are ultra competitive…
clinical experience is any situation where you can observe close up and first hand the interaction between physicians and patients. You also need to interact with the patients yourself. (And by close up, the LizzyM test applies–you have to be close enough to smell the patients.)
Clinical experience can be done at a hospital, a stand alone clinic (like Planned Parenthood, Healthcare for the Homeless or a public county free clinic), a hospice, cancer center, rehab hospital, stand alone surgical center, group home for the mentally ill or physically disabled, skilled nursing home.
study abroad. You can do a summer abroad after sophomore year. Or you can spread out your med school pre-reqs over 4 years instead of 3 and apply after you graduate. You’ll have a gap year, but that might not be a bad thing. It will give you time to enjoy your college experience and time to strengthen your ECs. (BTW, 1/2 of all applicants take gap years.)
while aiming high is commendable, your goal should be to get into ANY medical school, not just a top 20. Every year 60% of med school applicants don’t get a single acceptance.
Medical school admission is much more than just having great stats. While having a great GPA and MCAT score is important, if you are missing the expected ECs (physician shadowing, clinical experience, community service with those less fortunate than yourself, leadership and for top 20 programs-- significant bench or clinical research), your application won’t get a second look from adcomms.
Getting clinical experience during the school year depends on having a hospital nearby (or a doctors office or clinic - you’re talking about shadowing?) Summers and breaks are there for shadowing otherwise, if you can find them near your home instead.
Kids at LACS do research in summer and during the year, and students from any school can apply to pre-med summer opportunities like REUs at their own or other colleges and hospitals.
The study abroad vs pre-med thing really is the same no matter where you go to school because pre-med required courses are determined by medical schools, not colleges. If you take your one year physics, one yer Bio, two years Chem, one year math, etc on your own campus then you can go abroad and do just language or electives. Any good school - LAC or otherwise - will have pre-health advisers who can help you plan your schedule and figure out a way to include a semester or year abroad in it.
Actually pre-meds now need 5 semesters of chemistry:
2 semesters gen chem w/labs
2 semesters ochem w/lab
1 semester biochem (tested on the MCAT and required by many med schools)
(And, no, you cannot simply swap ochem 2 for biochem, although some colleges/pre-health advisors may recommend this. Too many medical schools require both ochem 2 AND biochem.)
OHMomof2 is correct, you should not take any of your science requirements while abroad. You really need to do them at your home school.
@WayOutWestMom@OHMomof2 I disagree on recommending that OP not take any of the science requirements while abroad. This should be discussed on a case by case scenario. I’ve recommended that many students take some of their science requirements at less competitive institutions to help raise their GPA.
All factors considered, med schools will take the applicant with a 3.9+ GPA from a lesser known school than the applicant with a 3.7+ from a prestigious school. Going to a prestigious undergrad will more than likely not help you for medical school if your GPA is sacrificed.
I didn’t say that it’s not possible, I said a good pre-med adviser will be able to help the student plan.
Some med schools won’t accept required courses from just any school so I agree, it’s a case by case basis. There may be certain study abroad programs that offer courses that will work for med schools. There are programs that will allow for extra curricular medical work, volunteering, shadowing, etc. while away.
Some students don’t apply to med school until senior year so have more time to get all the required courses done than those who apply at the end of junior year. Amherst, mentioned in OP, really prefers students apply senior year, for various reasons.
@OHMomof2 I reread the posts again and I may have misinterpreted the context of “abroad”. If by abroad, you mean out of the country to do the prereqs, then that is definitely not recommended science or not.
@WayOutWestMom Thank you for answering some of my questions! So is clinical research (that you said was required by top 20 schools) different than just working in a research lab at your college? Also, how does one get the opportunities to work with the less fortunate, etc? And, how much clinical experience is a medical school applicant supposed to have - if I do one thing each summer, is that okay?
“All factors considered, med schools will take the applicant with a 3.9+ GPA from a lesser known school than the applicant with a 3.7+ from a prestigious school. Going to a prestigious undergrad will more than likely not help you for medical school if your GPA is sacrificed.”
This is what I am really scared about. I will probably have somewhere around a 3.7, and I wouldn’t want that to be the reason I don’t get into medical school. It’s not that I’m not going to aim for a high GPA, but I already know students from this school don’t (often) end up with GPAs higher than a B average.
“There are programs that will allow for extra curricular medical work, volunteering, shadowing, etc. while away.”
@OHMomof2 Sorry to ask more questions, but do you know of any of these programs.
Also, if I do apply to med school senior year, what could I do the year between undergrad and med school? Would I be taking more courses or just trying to find a job?
Research Experiences for Undergraduates. Summer research often but not always funded by the federal government, usually on the campus of a college or university (but not always), usually with a stipend and/or housing and/or travel reimbursement and/or board, lasting 6-10 weeks. About a dozen students at each site working with professors on various research projects.
Similar programs go by lots of acronyms - SURF (summer undergraduate research something), SURP, SIBS, etc.
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So is clinical research (that you said was required by top 20 schools) different than just working in a research lab at your college?
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There are 2 types of research: clinical research and lab bench research. Either type is acceptable.
Lab bench research is is basic or applied research conducted in a laboratory setting. Clinical research is research using actual human beings, usually in a medical setting (like in a hospital or a lab associated with a hospital or medical school) that attempts to track the efficacy and outcomes of various treatments.
Top 20 schools tend to be research-intensive schools. They expect you to have research where you have had substantial input and responsibility for a project (like an independent senior research thesis). Typically this involves more than the research you'll do in a single summer at a REU or other summer research program.
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Also, how does one get the opportunities to work with the less fortunate, etc?
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There are lots of places you can volunteer. Your faith community. A soup kitchen or food pantry. Tutoring inner city students. Tutoring recent ESL immigrants. Big Brother/Big Sisters. Compeer. Reading to children or the visually impaired at the public libraryLook around. I'm sure your LAC will have community service groups on campus. Find an organization or activity that is meaningful to you and volunteer with them over multiple years.
You need to get out of your comfort zone and work with people who come from backgrounds that are different than yours. Patients come in a wide variety of flavors--and not all patients are nice people
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And, how much clinical experience is a medical school applicant supposed to have - if I do one thing each summer, is that okay?
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There is no simple answer to this. Enough that you are able to speak (and writing) convincingly that you understand what you are getting into. Enough that it looks like more than merely box checking. You might be able to do that after one full time intensive summer. Or not. IMO, it's better to have experience over a longer period because you will change and grow during your college career and your ideas & world view will change and evolve too.
Adcomms are looking for qualities like persistence and perseverance in applicants.
Successful medical school applicants are able to multi-task. They are able to do more than just polish their GPAs. They're able to maintain their GPA and still find the time to volunteer, to do research, and to have a social life.
