@MTVT2015 that was a great article, and reading the comments was interesting as well. The writer talks about how she has always been overweight and she wasn’t chosen as a lead in high school.
Then one of the commenters said, “You were never “the fat girl” to me. Casting high school performances is a slippery slope. I always simply wanted more confidence from you and felt like you were shy or scared. I felt like smaller roles would help you build that confidence. Then you started to vanish and I simply assumed high school theatre was something you didn’t want to be a part of. You are and always have been a beautiful person to me inside and out. I am glad you have shared your journey and am so glad you have embraced yourself “warts and all”.”
I have been avidly reading this thread and agree with all the wonderful/terrible points being discussed. I’m a “plus-sized” person myself, working towards “merely curvy” (it’s a looong battle). But my MT S won the genetic lottery in the “looks” department (not just his mom’s opinion; 6’2", athletically built (previously skinny), nice face, wishes he had curly hair and could grow a beard already), so I’m playing devil’s advocate for the “pretty” people who aspire to a life on stage. My S aspires to be the “funny” man - he began his performance career in elementary school by cracking up the class with his inopportune farting (an ongoing theme in parent/teacher conference for years to come). Since HS, his coaches/teachers have told him he’s got what it takes to be a leading man and he’s getting the same feedback in college. Please don’t have a sarcastic “pity party” for him, he knows how fortunate he is and how privileged he was/is in his training. As parents, H and I are hopeful he can “pay the bills” with his face, stature and dance skills. But he doesn’t want to spend his stage career dancing with princesses. He wants to make people laugh. Teachers and industry folks say he’s too tall to ever get cast as “the funny man” (he’ll never be in Newsies either). The “know your type” mantra cuts both ways. And for all those beautiful girls out there, what happens if in your heart of hearts you’re Phyllis Diller or Whoopi Goldberg rather than a princess, good wife/girlfriend, slut with a heart of gold? I like what @MTVT2015 says about this generation asking “why should I be concerned about this?” and then “what can I do about it?” My S is hoping to create his own “perfect” roles. Here’s to others like Lin Manual who are making this change happen (Ok, they ARE all beautiful).
@MTVT2015 , I love what you wrote. As I was reading it, I was thinking about how grateful I am that my D is with people like you! (An aside: I forward her articles–about many subjects, not just theatre–that I know she’ll find interesting, and she often says, “We’re talking about this in _____!” I love how your program is so concerned with stretching people and getting you all to think critically and deeply about issues in the arts and the world at large.) I agree with all that you said…except…I think you do have a terrific look, and that your look would translate well on film as well as on stage. But, my opinion about that is not relevant (and I hope it doesn’t come off as weird, lol). What you and others said about thinking about what you can do about it–what we all can do about it–is what is critical and relevant. I think and hope that we could be on the precipice of sweeping change… It’s one reason why digging into this aspect of programs and applying to ones with openness in this area was important to my D (and me).
Hi- I’m a long time lurker and actually a senior who will be entering vocal performance this coming fall, but I could not agree more with @mom4bwayboy about the looks/type factor going both ways from a student perspective. In middle school and all throughout my current high school career, I was always typed as the comic relief/the quirky one/the old woman. Why? I had established early with my teachers that I could handle playing those niche roles, and was accordingly cast. After auditioning this year and running around doing master classes like crazy, I was honestly shocked to hear many auditors say “This song is really great for your ingenue type!” Literally everywhere. Basically, it is honestly a tough realization that regardless of what we want to be or we think we are best at, we are all typed on looks, even in other majors like mine. It’s also a reminder that based on who sees you, your looks could imply a different type than when someone else does. It’s weird, it’s the business, but it’s definitely nothing that limits anyone from going out there and showing what they have.
Absolutely agree with all of you that it goes both ways! I actually feel very lucky that my physical type pretty much matches who I am as a person. I mean, I have no problem with playing Tracy Turnblad until I’m 30. It’s just the expectation that I don’t like. Like she says in the article, it can be insulting when someone looks at you and the first roles they think of are the canonically fat (or anything that directly has to do with your physical appearance) ones. It’s probably the same if you’re very attractive. No one wants to be seen as only their outside.
I also think that often this casting issue is not conscious on the part of the director, especially in high school theatre. A lot of this has to do with societal biases and assumptions that extend way beyond theatre. When someone’s casting Carousel they’re not necessarily going to think “X actress is too ugly for Julie Jordan!” …it would be more like they simply wouldn’t think of said actress for the role at all because that’s not what they’ve been told people with her look can be.
As far as changing it, one of my professors last semester is a casting director (and regularly auditions people for UArts!) and she said that instead of type, she looks for an actor’s essence. I love that concept and it’s certainly applicable to colorblind/color-conscious casting as well as what we’re discussing here.
And thank you @myloves, that is very sweet. Not weird at all
Many years ago when I was at an acting conservatory I watched the undisputed BEST performance of a comic blonde bombshell role I’ve ever seen, delivered by a very short, very brunette, very heavy and not classically attractive woman. She honestly captured the essence of the role in a way that had every person in the room in stitches and madly in love with her at the end of her one minute monologue. It was unforgettable, and hopefully inspired the directors and producers in the room to look beyond knee-jerk biases in future casting.
The author was a dance major not MT, but at a school with a strong MT program… regularly mentioned as a “top ten” school… (the school was mentioned in the comments section of facebook)
My oldest D. was on a university dance team that required weigh-ins weekly. If any member of the team gained more than a pound from the previous week, the whole team had to run laps.
This subject can turn to heartbreak so quickly. I cannot begin to express the sadness that I feel for many in my own daughter’s peer group - where a shocking number including some of the young men, have eating disorders. Incredibly talented, gorgeous young adults. It is rampant. Stay vigilant parents. The slope is mighty slippery.
(and your post made a memory come to mind when each of my kids had a certain freshmen HS English teacher…if anyone in the class yawned, the entire class had to run laps outside right then and there)
@halflokum …you are right about being vigilant…my MT D witnessed some peers while in her BFA program who grappled with eating disorders. In sophomore year, one of these MT friends lived in her suite.
I am so grateful for our D’s dance studio. It’s tops in every respect, very highly-regarded, and all the dancers are different shapes and sizes. I LOVE IT!
@theaterwork , these attitudes (and sometimes practices) exist in at least a couple MT programs (by the faculty), as well. It’s not just in dance. Also, at some programs, dance programs are closely connected to MT programs. (I don’t know if that is the case at the school which the author attended; I didn’t see it in the comments.) Yes, be vigilant and hyper aware. (Any hint of this sort of thing–beyond rumors–and it was off my D’s list. It’s just not cool.)
I’m also fortunate that my three girls grew up in a studio that’s very healthy to body image. Never any emphasis on looks, just health and fitness. But my kids have run the gamut on this issue. My oldest daughter who I mentioned above with the terrible dance team coach didn’t major in the fine arts, and we hadn’t done any research into that aspect of the school she went to. She chose to try out for the dance team, which is considered a sport, after a year there because she missed dancing. I was very angry about the weigh-ins, but she was so happy to be on the team, she refused to complain and begged me not to say anything. She’d be so careful of what she ate, even at Thanksgiving and Christmas, it broke my heart. Body shaming comes in many stripes, my middle daughter is naturally slim and her high school cheerleading coach would call her anorexic (not out of concern) and tell her to eat a sandwich. I did have long talks with the administration over that awful woman, and my daughter quit the team. She’s lucky enough to have parlayed her physique into a successful modeling career since then, but that coach hurt her a lot in high school. My youngest, the one still waiting for two MT decisions this year, is the most serious artist of my kids, also not built like her tall, slim older sisters, and at any school she’s considering I’m asking questions to ensure there’s no unhealthy focus on body type and weight. That would be reason for us to not allow her to choose a program.
Yes @myloves I totally assume there are some MT programs that focus on weight on the girls… Wonder if they care about the weight with the boys… Nonetheless I know it’s a big thing in dance. My D is very cognizant of this problem as someone from her school right now is in a treatment facility for this very thing. I know if they started weighing my D in an MT program she wouldn’t stay in the program! No way.
That OCU dance dept weight policy is quite unsettling… I love how they try to say it’s about " your health and safety" umm yeah right. I’m sure you have to be in shape to dance to prevent injury of course but a pound here or there would not affect your health to any degree. Heck a pound or so could just be hormonal/water weight etc! I find that absolutely unacceptable and it’s no wonder girls have “health” issues… They have eating disorders! They are promoting bad “health” since these girls aren’t eating because they’re being body shamed. Not eating is not good nutrition. So I hope they are holding good and nutrition classes to educate the girls on how to eat properly !
I’m also grateful that the dance studio my girls attended their entire lives prior to college had girls of every shape and size. Likewise, when my D attended NYU/Tisch for MT, there were all shapes and sizes in the program.
Shaming and humiliation for any reason in any program, especially one for young people, is a reason to leave and seek another program. We left a dance studio and a gymnastic team because of humiliation, shaming, and favoritism. It’s unacceptable in my book. We were fortunate to find other places to train that were better in every respect, even though we had to drive a good distance. It took time and effort to find new places but it was worth it. I found it less stressful to drive more to the new places than to wonder what sort of treatment my kids would receive at the local studio or gymnastic center.
