<p>It looks like many of you all are in agreement: Biology and Chemistry majors with just a BS work in a lab for $12/hour, with no benefits and little chance to move up. However, according to the Occupational Handbook Biological Scientists job growth will be much greater than the average over the next decade. Then it may make some sense as the page says the people with BS and MS will have more opportunities in nonscientist fields related to biology-- like sales, marketing etc. </p>
<p>Here is a snippet:</p>
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<p>"Employment of biological scientists is projected to grow 21 percent over the 200818 decade, much faster than the average for all occupations, as biotechnological research and development continues to drive job growth" </p>
<p>"People with bachelor's and master's degrees are expected to have more opportunities in nonscientist jobs related to biology, in fields like sales, marketing, publishing, and research management. Non-Ph.D.s also may fill positions as science or engineering technicians or as medical health technologists and technicians. Some become high school biology teachers." </p>
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<p>So in a nutshell, it looks like those that want to focus on lab work will have poor earning potential but those that move into a nonscientist job has a much better opportunity. Is that fair?</p>
<p>Pretty much the less time you spend in the lab, the better your life will be. It is not that easy though. There are hoards of science grads trying to move a way from the lab. Getting into regulatory affairs is really difficult if not impossible. Not everyone is cut out for sales/marketing or teaching and most school districts are in no position to hire. </p>
<p>I really don’t see that many jobs for BS/MS biologists and have no idea where they came up with that projection.</p>
<p>The problem is, even if the number of jobs grows, there will still likely be an oversupply of biology graduates due to the huge number of people who felt that they had to major in biology to do pre-med, but did not get into medical school.</p>
<p>I just can’t believe that someone with a BS in Biology gets a job for $12 and hour with no benefits-- something is wrong with the system if that is the case.</p>
<p>Well it is what it is. These same D-bag companies that are paying their scientists these kind of wages will be in front of congress saying that there is a shortage of scientists and that they need to raise the cap on H1-B visas. </p>
<p>Abbott labs head of HR was quoted as calling American homebodies with useless degrees and railed that they were not majoring in science. Of course he left out the part that they are also one of the worst offenders when it comes to using permatemps (they hire most though Manpower Staffing) and treating their science staff like trash.</p>
<p>All over it is the same thing. Chicken little cries about the looming shortage of scientists and saying that Americans are too stupid and lazy for science. The truth is Americans are not too stupid for science they are too smart for it.</p>
<p>Why should the smartest Americans pay high tuition and major in the hardest, most work intensive (lab) subjects when they are paid less than a garbage man? Where is the Return on Investment in a science degree? It simply makes no sense to get one even if you have a passion for it. Salaries have gotten so bad and careers so unstable that we are actively repelling even the most dedicated scientists from the field and into nursing, accounting, and finance.</p>
<p>Great post and thanks for the info. I find this very interesting and yes it is a problem. What can be done about it?</p>
<p>Someone at my office told me it’s the result of offshoring done backwards. Many folks from India and China will come here to work for that low wage. It’s starting to make some sense…</p>
<p>I think we need to keep the pressure on our elected officials to resist the cries of these companies for more cheap foreign labor. It is very destructive to our society.</p>
<p>Unfortunately we have a president that thinks India is a net producer of American jobs and is completely clueless.</p>
<p>I think a collective bargaining or loathe as I am to suggest it a union of scientific professionals is needed to combat the abuses by American Companies especially the permatemping scam.</p>
<p>The drawback is that some of CS and Math majors would prefer to do something non-software-developing related but since food has to be put on the table, they go into software development. Math & CS majors are just LUCKY that there is an high-paying industry for them…whether or not they 110% like what they are doing.</p>
<p>sschoe2’s above post about the lab is right. I can’t even remember how I got through those 4 hours/week of Organic, Analytical, and Physical Chemistry labs. Maybe because I liked them back then. You have to be careful to not mess up while you’re making solutions or operating instruments, whereas if you’re doing Math, Econ, CS or other marketable majors you can just sit on your desk and do your homework.</p>
<p>It’s not clear to me where the estimate of 11.00 to 12.00 per hour and no benefits comes from. I worked in r and d at 2 different biotech companies during the mid 2000s and made over 40k per year with excellent benefits. This was in places like Madison wi and Denver co not Boston or San Francisco where techs make substantially more. </p>
<p>Another positive about our career path that was left out of the discussion was that we get paid (with benefits) to do our graduate degrees. I should point out that even my stipend is more than 11.00 to 12.00 an hour.</p>
<p>I agree that h1b visas are given out like Halloween candy and non domestic students are admitted in staggeringly high numbers to our graduate schools. This is he price we pay to be the preeminent scientific power in the world. If relatively cheap scientific talent weren’t available in abundance here, Pharma would relocate their r and d operations</p>
<p>Finally I want to point out that lab science isn’t the only option for us. If you are especially interested in remuneration intellectual property law is a common choice as is regulatory affairs</p>
<p>Things have deteriorated further. Now all the lab positions are through temp agencies and they take 40% at least of what the company pays and provide no or joke benefits. The companies love this arrangement they declare you an expense rather than labor cost, they are shielded from any employer taxes and regulations, and can get rid of you at any time with just a phone call. </p>
<p>The average pay rate from Kelly, Aerotek, ManPower, Lab Temps is on the order of $15 an hour. </p>
<p>I really wish pharma would just leave rather than lie and say their is a shortage of scientists to try and sucker wave after wave of bright young Americans into wasting years of their life pursuing a science career. I am sick of being cheap scientific talent.</p>
<p>Lab science is what a science degree trains you for. Braking into regulatory affairs or a different area is very difficult to impossible unless you have some real connections. Law is seriously glutted with less than 50% of graduates getting appropriate jobs and being crippled for life with $100-200k of debt.</p>
<p>A grad program is no bargain in science. You work for 5 to 7.5 years at the mercy of a PI with no incentive to care about or help you and if you are any good he has every incentive to try to keep you there as long as possible. The system is absolutely full of corruption. The Universities get cheap scientists to teach; the professors get cheap lab techs; and the grad students often get screwed. You are darn right it is free because if it weren’t noone would pay for it. Also, the attrition rate of Ph. D. programs is 50% on average 66%+ in really bad ones because of the aforementioned corruption and conflicts of interest.</p>
<p>I can think of no benefit at all to pursuing a science career now. The risks are great, the coursework and workload are long and hard, and the pay is insulting (a garbage man has better pay, benefits, and job security).</p>
<p>In short, I am the first and last person in my family to graduate with a science degree. I am returning to school next fall for an accounting MS and at this point I am happy to have nothing further to do with science. It has become like a really abusive spouse and I am at the point where I can no longer remember why I ever loved it. Anyone considering majoring in science should take serious heed.</p>
<p>I just want to say I wish I read sschoe2’s posts a few semesters earlier lol. I’m graduating this May with B.S Chem and Math minor. I got a job as a Market Research Assistant but it’s temp :p. I’m going to get M.S in Applied Math or Statistics at some point of my life, it should be more fun.</p>