<p>D. is a junior--just got the FA package. Incredibly generous and I am deeply grateful. We are both lucky in that we both have jobs, although pay cuts this year as we are both in banking, but this is "the YEAR" where we have three in college. ND came through for us. Thank you GOD and thank you Notre Dame. </p>
<p>And to those who fear the financial obligation but love the school, don't worry--it will all work out. It will be a stretch, but a bearable one.</p>
<p>our feelings are just the opposite, my son was admitted for class of 2013…ND wanted us to pay the full price of $52K, and even though I am an alumni, we said no…ND is not worth $220,000.</p>
<p>but they lost out on a really good young man who would have been admitted anyway, even without the legacy hook.</p>
<p>We had to pay full price too, except for a small campus work study grant each year. We were worried but did it anyway; this year we really could not have and they came through for us. We will still spend about what we have done the last two years, but it will be among three kids now rather than two. </p>
<p>A lot of schools bait the hook first year with money and then leave kids high and dry–in our experience Notre Dame expects a lot up front and then gets more generous each year.</p>
<p>Agree Mombot!!! We will forever be grateful for the FA package we received this year! Our daughter had to pay the full price as well the first year, but each year since the aid has gone up! She is a rising junior and a legacy as well and they didn’t have to do it…but they did. </p>
<p>For those of you worrying, I second Mombot’s advice…pick the school, the rest will work out~especially with ND. Our daughter could have gone to U. of Illinois for almost free, but chose ND. They are very generous, but maybe more so after that first year.</p>
<p>I still have to disagree, and I won’t pick on just ND but all of these top private school. Total costs of >$50K/year, with 4-5% increases per year is not sustainable. Thses school’s financial aid models (except HYPSM) assume the student will take on at least $20K in debts and that parents will borrow out of their home equity.</p>
<p>We are hearing severe complaints from ND parents about the 4.4% increase this year. Some parents have agreed to send their kid to ND but say they are truly scared about the debt they will have to take on.</p>
<p>I just think it is incomprehensible to expect famalies making more $170K/yr to pay $220K for a private school education. At some point this is going to have to stop.</p>
<p>What is also worrisome for ND is that they hardly had any increase in applications this year, even with going to the common app. They admitted more kids, I think this is going to hurt their ranking.</p>
<p>MiPerson80, you do seem to like to pick on ND and I fully expect to find out from you very quickly if ND’s ranking drops even one spot when the new edition of that magazine is released later this summer. Your son chose another college, yet here you are, still haunting the ND forum with your mostly (well really, only) negative views about ND. I am not questioning your right to share, but I do wonder at your motivation. </p>
<p>
…This statement is incomprehensible to me, but many families making $170k/yr can and do pay $200k-$220k for a private school education. We make less than that, are full pay for our oldest and we will do it again if our youngest is admitted in the future. The financial planning tools we used a decade and a half ago prepared us for these numbers and the annual increases that result in these numbers. </p>
<p>
…First, this was certainly not a normal year for college admissions. I don’t think the evidence is there yet that ND admission statistics for 2009 are out of line in comparison with their peers. Second, the rankings themselves are somewhat artificial and exist to sell a magazine. I view the rankings as ‘ballpark’ numbers. They are useful, but I do not recognize them as hard, indisputable numbers, especially in this anomalous year. </p>
<p>But again, I don’t think you are worried that ND will drop in rank. Rather, based on your numerous posts, you will be disappointed if ND doesn’t drop. Prove me wrong?</p>
<p>Thank you for your post^^ as we, too, are very happy with ND after planning for expensive college tuition before our student was even born. For years, we saved and did w/o a lot of things knowing that the cost of tuition at all schools was sharply rising as the years seemed to literally fly by. With one more year to go, we are very excited about the ops that our student has had since being a student at ND. I still stand by all of my previous posts in that college choice is a very personal decision that needs to be made as a family, with all pros and cons evaluated including the most significant being finances.</p>
<p>well. I think you are wrong, this was a bad year for ND, they did expect another 3,000 applicants because of the use of the common app but they did not get it, yet schools like Duke when way up in applications. An ND admission officer told us that it would be in the 17,000 applications. Also, the economy really didn’t affect the number of applications at other top schools.</p>
<p>As an alumni, I think ND is caught bertween two competing issues, they want to desperately go up in the rankings (thus Father Jenkin’s drive to a research university, which ND really doesn’t have the endowment to support), yet by being a religious institution, they won’t get the votes for this from their secular peers. Also, rankings are also influenced by grad school and ND suffers in this dept.</p>
<p>Remember the uproar from the Law School students when ND’s ranking dropped?</p>
<p>ND is frustrated by how Duke can go up in the rankings but ND is staying stagnant or even dropping this year. I also think their is some distate about Weis also, it is terrible that such an uncouth, no class character can coach at ND.</p>
<p>Also , I think ND showed no real sacrifice by having one of the biggest increases this year of any private college, 4.4%.</p>
<p>Even though you’re “an alumni” (sic), it’s obvious that you’re gloating over Notre Dame’s statistical overestimation. ND isn’t about to fold, however; it will surely have its usual share of excellent students, and continue to be one of the most heavily-endowed universities in the country. I wouldn’t lose sleep over this year’s rankings…or rejoice prematurely over a slip in them.</p>
<p>If you missed it and for a recent perspective on the fallibility of the USWNR rankings (I suspect the Clemson example is the tip of the iceberg) you might want to check out this discussion in the Parents Forum: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/724385-inside-higher-ed-manipulating-er-influencing-u-s-news.html?highlight=rankings[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/724385-inside-higher-ed-manipulating-er-influencing-u-s-news.html?highlight=rankings</a></p>
<p>The way I read the ranking thing the only piece that keeps ND from being in the top 10 is this ridiculous and arbitrary “peer assessment” where ND gets hammered probably for no other reason than that it is a Catholic School that is attempting to hold onto its faith tradition.</p>
<p>I posted this in another thread several weeks ago:</p>
<p>Regarding Notre Dame, I think there’s more ignorance concerning it WITHIN academia, and though this sounds like a superficial take, I truly think it’s fair to say that many academics simply can’t reconcile scientific research and the more humanistic pursuits with a religious mission. I think that, in general, the peer assessment in US News’s rankings is the most questionable datum employed, and that Notre Dame, in particular, suffers in this area.</p>
<p>Aristophanes-it will have its usual share of excellent students-some of which who will continue to pay full price. ND is selling a product (education) and it is your choice to purchase that product or one that may be even more costly or less expensive. This has been made very clear to MiPerson. For some reason, MiPerson just can’t let it go…</p>
<p>MiPerson made a monetary decision to send their child to a fine, in state, public university. Nothing wrong there. This repeated attempt to bash ND for being more expensive to attend than U. of Michigan seems like an attempt to rationalize going for the less expensive alternative vs. spending the money to attend the alma mater. You made your decision, now move on to the Michigan site and quit complaining. If you don’t feel guilty, why keep posting the same arguments over and over? Life is full of choices. Have faith in the one you made and quit trying to rationalize it in monetary terms for your student’s sake.</p>
<p>For a number of students like myself, I could really care less whether ND is in rankings (that is always relative). I care that graduates are qualified for the workforce (and I talked to many), the academic programs that they have, and the entire experience it provides. For students like myself, once I visited ND for a weekend, saw the Blue/Gold Game, stayed at ND for a night, went to a few classes, and talked with current students, ND was right. It is all about fit, and if ND is your fit, I think you will go into debt for it. ND is perfect for certain students, which will make sacrifices to be able to attend. </p>
<p>I couldn’t care less if ND was 1, 10, 25, or even higher. it is still a highly respected college and is a great place to spend four/five years.</p>
<p>MiPerson–I’m still having a real tough time with your moaning about folks making >$170,000 per year having to pay $220,000 over four years for a ND education. Do you have any concept of what the rest of us make each year? Even if you take $55,000 off the top, that will leave your family with a paltry $115,000 to live on over the next 12 months! Count your blessings, MiPerson, for your financial success rather than assuming you are entitled to a low-cost/no-cost education at a world-class Catholic university.</p>
<p>Umm…I think we’ve all been duped by miperson. I just don’t believe that he/she went to ND! First of all there are just too many writing errors…there/their…“as an Alumni” instead of “as an Alumnus”…etc. etc. Don’t be fooled everyone! I think this is a Michigan person lurking on the ND boards. (why? I can’t figure except a desire to be ND!) Besides, really, what ND alumnus/alumna would ever send their child to Michigan!!! :)</p>
<p>“Count your blessings, MiPerson, for your financial success rather than assuming you are entitled to a low-cost/no-cost education at a world-class Catholic university.”</p>
<p>And this is the part I do not understand. If upper-middle class parents decide that they are unable or unwilling to make the financial sacrifices necessary to send a child to an expensive private school, why should they expect OTHER PEOPLE to pick up the tab?</p>
<p>Excellent points made by the previous posts.</p>
<p>There is one point in MiPerson’s post I would dispute – the inference that ND is greatly disappointed that they did not get 17k applications this year (ended up around 14.4k, targeting about the same class size as previous ~2250).</p>
<p>Two thoughts I would share: </p>
<p>1) The common app is a much more efficient way for students to apply to many schools with minimal incremental effort. However, ND’s common app was different from all the others my D applied to (Holy Cross, BC, American, Fordham, Washington & Lee). ND required submission of the “Supplemental” part first and their supplemental required an incremental essay that any serious candidate would have to spend real time on. All the other schools’ supplementals were pretty lame – some additional personal info principally about understanding any legacy links to that specific school. Some schools required no supplemental. Net, any pop from being in the common app I believe was greatly reduced because of the essay required.</p>
<p>2) Since ND is not making any significant change in year over year enrollment, what is the value in getting more applications??? During our tour and info session, the Admissions official stated quite clearly ~75% of all applications are fully qualified to be enrolled at ND. The profile of each class seems to strengthen year over year. By contrast, BC (Fredo to those of you familiar with ndnation.com), gets 30k applications – accepts ~7800 to end up with a class of ~2700. Oh, and offer wait list to ~2000 applicants. I am confident the bottom 15000 applicants for BC are not highest quality, why else would they have to accept 7800 to yield 2700?</p>
<p>For full transparency, my D remains on the ND waitlist and my wife and I are both alumni.</p>
<p>Getty59,
Best of luck to your D as she awaits word from admissions. My S is anxiously awaiting the start of school. I had the privilege last fall of sitting in on the Fellowship of Christian Athletes meeting at the team hotel the night before the San Diego State game. About 30 of the ND football team members were present. At the conclusion, about ten of them stopped and introduced themselves on their way to their evening “snack”. They had no idea who I was, but took the time without being told to do so. How proud it made me to be an alum and to have my University represented by such fine young men. I was still feeling so proud the next day that I gave away my pregame sideline pass to my son’s friend who was going to apply for admission so that he could experience the feeling.
It truly is a special place.</p>