<p>My D is Chicago, her number 1 choice, on a large merit scholarship but she really liked her true safety -- Loyola New Orleans -- where she was considerably above the admitted stats. Same for Tulane and Fordham. In the end, after attending scholars weekend at Emory, she did not love Emory (which was her second-choice school until that weekend). Tied with Emory before the weekend was WashU, where she received a bit more than 1/2 tuition. She was also accepted at Davidson, NYU, and a few more with some merit aid. We talked about her choices recently (a "What if you hadn't received merit money from Chicago?" conversation). She said she would have gently tried to get us to cover the remaining WashU costs and if she had met resistance she would have chosen a nearly full ride at Fordham for the New York experience and Jesuit education. We have a son who is a HS freshman and we plan to employ the same strategy with him -- select educational, emotional (and financial) safeties, matches and reaches.</p>
<p><<I will throw out DD's word on this:</p>
<p>She would say not "Love thy Safety", rather "Don't love any school until you get in". >></p>
<p>That's how my son felt. He knew several of his schools were reaches, so he didn't get too attached to any one school. As it is, he got into one reach and four semi-safeties. (The college was a safety, but not necessarily the music school.) As he looks over his choices, he is excited about three of them enough to make a tour of all three. He feels he could be happy at any of them. He doesn't care that they are not all prestige schools. He just wants places he can feel comfortable and study music. When one school didn't give him enough aid to make it possible, his comment was, "Well, at least that narrows down my choices." Smart kid!</p>
<p>I probably should have titled this thread "Love thy safety?"</p>
<p>I can absolutely see why it's a great idea to find safeties you love, and it's good to hear that many kids did, but Whitneylm's post really spoke to me. My daughter spent a very long time researching schools last year, and did apply to the proverbial mix of reaches, matches, and safeties--all of which could, at least theoretically, have suited her very well. But the truth is that she didn't love her safeties or even her match schools, and was in considerable despair until she was lucky enough to be admitted to her first-choice reach on April 1. (OK, she's an intensely driven and competitive kid--which can be both a help and a hindrance in this process.)</p>
<p>Had she not been so lucky, I suspect she would have eventually learned to love the school where she ended up--especially one of the matches; I'm less optimistic about the safeties. But I'm not quite sure, and I'm interested in other kids' experiences when they do end up at their safeties.</p>
<p>Editrix -- You make a good point. While my D says she could have been happy at any of her schools, including her safest of safeties, that's all theoretical, isn't it? It would be nice to hear from some kids who ended up at a safety. After initial disappoinment, did they love it and stay? Did they transfer out as quickly as possible? Did they take a gap year or find another alternative?</p>
<p>I hope this post will be as useful as those whose safeties "worked"</p>
<p>A friend's S is in ONLY at his two safeties, and they are NOT happy. I have posted before about families where guidance was poor and who thought match=in (at least to some of them). This did not happen in friend's case. Rejected or waitlisted at all matches and reaches. As his M said to their (private) GC, she cannot imagine a worse outcome.</p>
<p>I'm not sure why the safeties are no longer satisfying: [ul][<em>]poorly selected? (I don't think so; I remember how he liked them when he visited);[</em>] "wouldn't want any club that would have me as a member?" I think that is it to a great extent; safeties become less desirable for the very fact that they ARE a safety (read "lesser"). [li]Fallout from all the rejection? I think that is a big part of it, too, and loving they safety may re-surface when wounds are healed. [/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>We have spoken on other threads of revisionist terminology: not "safety" but "good bet." I highly recommend this to all families beginning this process. It may not be the magic bullet, but it can only help.</p>
<p>I don't think this family is at all alone. My own S is happily into matches(with great merit $) and is not really even concerned whether he get into Stanford ,(his only reach), tho curious. I watched as his safety became less and less appealing to him as he visited his match/reach schools. I think if that very school (Hofstra) was ranked more highly, that alone would have made it continue in its appeal. He liked the location, atmospher, programs, ECs, industry relationships in his field... It was nothing intrinsic about the school that diminished it, as he compared, imo. I see it as the human nature of not wanting to be relegated to the lesser choice.</p>
<p>How to avoid this dilemma? Maybe safeties closer in rank to matches (but then are they safe?) Maybe better selection of safeties (but only in some cases). Maybe finding ways to overcome the psychology of the safety.</p>
<p>and I always imagined cangel as an old man like me.....</p>
<p>I'm with all those wise posters (on this thread and many others) who say the safety is the most important college on the application list. If I had a dollar for each time I've read "I'm feeling pretty good, in at U_______ and I'm waiting on letters from HYPSMS ...." or "Turned down at HYPS, trying to decide between ____ and ___."</p>
<p>I've also seen first hand that an unenthusiastic application often results in deferral, even at safeties. On a more positive note, I've also noticed that colleges that admit on the basis of scores alone work well as safeties. DD was not only accepted at her safety, but was offered Honors Program and a sizeable merit scholarship. And she loved the school (as well she should have since finding it consumed a full third of our college search!).</p>
<p>We saw so many fine schools that would have been safeties for my d. (a top applicant). There was Earlham (and, being Friends, it came with an automatic scholarship, independent of need). Mount Holyoke. Bard (not a safety for many students, but it was for her because of particular music composition connections.) Kalamazoo (with higher rates of sending folks on to graduate schools in the sciences than any of the Ivies except Princeton). Evergreen (she'd already spent a year there - and loved the experience.) And she ended up choosing Smith over Williams and a bunch of other places (after visiting H., she didn't even apply, because they honestly told her she couldn't study with their august full professors.) Certainly not a safety, and, unfortunately in my view, much more selective this year than last (apps. up over 20%.) The safety also doesn't tell you much about educational opportunities: try doing study abroad at Yale (it can be done, but they've made it so difficult, relatively few do.)</p>
<p>There are so many great, great schools out there, being filled with students who are AS qualified, according to the admissions officers who rejected them, as students at "The Few, the Proud."</p>
<p>momrath - I understand your question and I don't know the answer, as I am not a statistician. But here is an interesting article I found on applications at the school my D will be attending next year (Kenyon) which is one of the schools you mentioned in your post. They accepted only a little more than half of their ED applicants this year, and I know that the percentage was something like 83% two years ago, although this fact isn't included in this particular article. The article also gives some interesting perspectives on some practical considerations in the admissions process, from the college's point of view.</p>
<p>S fell in love with his safety/match and applied ED. He was practical about the whole college application process. We visited more selective schools--NYU, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown-- but he said, why waste money on all those applications, and have all that anxiety until April 1? Seriously, it was bad enough waiting for December 15!</p>
<p>We didn't need to compare financial aid offers so ED was an option. And as it turned out, he was rewarded for applying ED with a half-tuition merit scholarship.</p>
<p>kinshasa - My D was in a similar situation with Kenyon, although we considered it a "match" for her rather than a "safety/match". She was unexpectedly awarded a merit scholarship which is given to the top 20% of admitted students there, so I guess she definitely is the type of student they were looking for. I think it is wonderful that your son's school and Kenyon awarded these scholarships to students who had already committed themselves to attend if accepted. To me, it shows that the process is conducted very fairly by both schools, as they really had no incentive to make these awards except fairness. As with your family, it has been a very relaxed several months between Dec. 15 and April 1 for us. My daughter is enjoying her senior year and is very busy with all kinds of activities she enjoys, without the stress hanging over her like it has been for many of her friends.</p>
<p>kinshasha and Mof2 - we had the parallel experience with S' "realistic" match. He, too, took the practical approach (which his parents might not have been smart enough to do). Result: EA and 1/2 ride merit aid. Utter relaxation with the other apps he had put in (also early) and, as noted above, he loves his "realistic match" so much that he is only mildly interested in whether accepted RD to his one reach.</p>
<p>Still, even in retrospect, I don't know whether this school was a safety/match, "realistic match" or plain match. His SATs are just at the 75% mark, but his other stats and factors are stronger than that.</p>
<p>My worry still holds, for others, that the "safety" tag creates almost a stigma as kids (and their parents) evaluate the results of their applications.</p>
<p>I think the most important thing our three (and others') experiences contribute to this is that a very realistic match/safety-match/match where kid's app and visits etc. show real demonstrated interest is even more valuable than a safety. AND early app (whether ED or EA depending on your school and circumstances) enhance the value of this type of school.</p>
<p>Many "matches" fit the 50/50 chance profile that my S' GC uses for this category. The matches our three kids used had, I believe, going in much better chances than that. This is the school I think each family needs to find, even more than the statistical safety.</p>
<p>S's ED school was actually more a safety than a match, especially in the ED process. The school is used as a safety for applicants trying for Ivy-caliber schools in the northeast. Very few applicants apply ED.
Of a freshman class of about 4000, about 400 spots were ED, only one percent.<br>
It has been a joy to watch his enthusiasm for his ED school grow over the past months. He's developed a long list of AIM buddies and joined the livejournal class of 09 site.</p>
<p>kinshasa - Sorryto be picky, but did you mean 40 spots for ED or 10%? I think there is a typo in your figures there.</p>
<p>Much of this came up in a thread some months ago called How Many Schools Should Kids Apply To, when we talked about many things including different terminology. I posted the following:</p>
<p>At S's private school where all but one or two - if that - go on to college, they recommend 5 or 6 apps:</p>
<p>1 or 2 "long shots" - chances are 1 or 2 in 10
2 "distinct possibilities" - chances are 3 or 4 in 10
1 or 2 "likelies" - about 7 in 10
1 where entrance "seems assured"</p>
<p>They suggest the schools in the last 2 categories be ones you'd "be truly satisfied" to attend.</p>
<p>They also do not at all push ED, despite the statistical advantage it may have. Some kids do it but probably no more than 20%. They require a list from the kids in about October/early Nov. and then alert parents, noting if they think the kid has no schools where entrance seems assured, to be sure the parent realizes that and is comfortable with the risk. There is a real effort at fit vs. prestige. Some do apply to more than 6 schools but they seem to be in the minority. And every year kids do get indeed get into some of the top places. I don't know this year's final tally but I do know kids are in at Stanford, Duke, Penn, NYU, Berkeley (as OOS), Swat, etc. Last year kids went Yale, Princeton, Williams, Duke, Stanford, Pomona, etc. You get the picture.</p>
<p>Now, as for loving your safety, or falling in love with your dream....We actually took a very different tack than what is generally recommended on this board. Because it was just too expensive and difficult to visit all the schools ahead of time, we had each kid visit a few places during junior year, or very early in the fall of senior year, mostly so they could figure out how one goes about choosing a college in terms of what things to consider and how to evaluate a school. So when D said as a junior she liked the Claremont colleges, we sent her down to see them. When we were back east visiting grandma, D went to see another school. S came along when we moved D to the LAC she eventually picked, and loved it, but 4 years later when he came to graduation, he realized an LAC was not for him.
When we were visiting D in Boston at her first job, S went over to see Tufts. He knew little about Tufts but began to get a feel for doing a college visit. S and H did a trip to see two campuses immediately before S's senior year, when those school were in session (late Aug.). We then did lots of research, arranged interviews with adcomms when they visited, went to college evenings, and built a list. Once acceptances arrived, we arranged appropriate visits.</p>
<p>So when D was rejected at Swat, it wasn't as much of a blow because she hadn't yet visited. And when she fell in love with Grinnell - her first choice sight unseen - she was already in. S didn't visit his first choice until he got in EA with merit money - so we all knew it was a completely workable choice. Because S plays a spring sport, we knew spring visits might be very hard or impossible, so we took advantage of EA, hoping we'd know early enough to make visits that might be necessary.</p>
<p>I think it is hard to say to a kid, when they visit a school, now don't fall in love yet. But if you carefully select places to visit or do visits before they are in frame of mind to be falling in love, you might prevent heartache. Now I realize this system won't work all the time. The kid who has wanted to be a Trojan since she was little may have trouble working up enthusiasm for an "acceptance is assured" school. But it can work for kids who have not yet narrowed their choices or thought through their options. It worked for both of mine!</p>
<p>Motheroftwo, I went back to Princeton Review and got my facts rights. Actually 4% of the freshman class was filled Early Decision.</p>
<p>399 ED applicants x 47% acceptance rate = 187 ED freshman admitted.
The freshman class is approximately 4000. That comes to 4%, give or take.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification. Congratulations to your son for the great outcome for in his ED application!</p>
<p>MotherofTwo, thanks for the article on Kenyon. My son really loved Kenyon and had things not worked out at his ED choice would most likely be there now. Two years ago it was a well kept secret. I'm glad it is finally getting the reputation it deserves but I'm going to have to find another LAC to recommend for kids looking for Eastcoast alternatives.</p>
<p>Getting an EA acceptance really changes the landscape.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, <em>blushing furiously</em>, "You cowboys say the most outrageous things!".</p>
<p>I know nothing! Nothing! I am that worst of amateurs, the one who thinks they know a little.
What I know, I picked up from the ever excellent Jamimom, NSM, Marite (who saved my sanity last fall), Mini, IDad, Thedad, Sooze (hope your DD is recovering well, this is the hard part, the long recuperation after everyone else has had to return to school, etc), Momrath, Carolyn and 10-12 others who said just the right thing at the right time - Dig, I keep remembering more names.</p>
<p>The camaraderie, I feel with you, Curmudge, is your personality shining through, and the fact that our DDs have many similariities in geography, background, interests and priorities. Thank you.</p>