@sybbie719 I didn’t force my parents to take out the loan, in fact, my mom called the financial aid office herself to find out about it. I’m not expecting them to do anything. I have tried to figure this out all on my own. If anything, if they were truly forced to have to pay, I’d say they are lucky because my NGSC covers the biggest part of my costs, my tuition and fees.
@CottonTales If two hours is considered commuting, I guess?
I just walk everywhere. Saves money and I get my exercise.
Sorry, I thought you were in the metro Phoenix area.
Sybbie, the fact is that many of us have to live with the cobbling together of funds. It’s not fun. I spent a bunch of time on the phone today with one daughter’s FA office, figuring out how we could apply the scholarships, grants, and loans in the best way (drop the expensive meal plan, add a smaller one, pay fees with the money from the meal plan). They still owe her $32 and while no one thinks it is a big deal, I do. It’s a book. I was very lucky to have
My other daughter’s situation is a mess and we’re all trying to figure out the best way to make it work. Families without big pots of money are often scrambling at the start of the school year to figure out how to make it work.
@twoinanddone First, I want tell you I completely understand where you’re coming from and I definitely wish you and your children the best in your financial situation. I know you can get it worked out! It’s tough.
I also want to add along to what twoinanddone said. I hope I do not offend anyone, but it does seem like there are some users on this forum who won’t necessarily have to worry about funding either their or their children’s education costs. I know that is not the case for EVERYONE, but I’ve read some forums and comments, and some people are not understanding to those who’s situations when growing up were trying to find quarters in their couch just to pay for gas and now they are trying to get through college.
@CottonTales, I think you’re correct that OP has relatives within commuting distance. But because she’s in the honors program she has to live on campus the first year. I don’t know if she’s found out if it’s required for all 4 years. Posters have asked, but if she responded, I missed it.
@twoinanddone, @sybbie719 , OP’s parents make too much to qualify for need based aid but carry debt and can’t afford to help her pay. Borrowing ~$60k to pay for undergrad is not “cobbling things together.” It’s choosing something that is unaffordable and ignoring the fact that it’s unaffordable. “Cobbling things together” is when you have the federal student loan, work earnings, maybe a little merit, and maybe a couple local scholarships to put toward books. OP doesn’t know if her parents will qualify to borrow ~$10k/year PLUS loans all 4 years. We don’t know if there are siblings – OP has been asked but hasn’t responded – but when parents max out spending/borrowing for one, it affects the choices of younger children.
The reason people told you not to depend on outside grants is because they’re small (~$500) and are only for one year. Your ~$12-15k/year gap is too large for them to cover. Even after you apply the federal student loan, you’d need 12-20 of them every year to cover your costs. You’re better off working during the summer. You’ll earn more.
Can you live with your relatives and commute after this year? Your federal student loan would likely cover your commuting expenses and the total debt would be ~$34k instead of ~$60k.
I was a low income student, so I understand how difficult it is. There are other ways to get a degree besides borrowing. Attending community college and transferring is one. Living with relatives and commuting is another.
You’re confusing getting a degree with living on campus and having the college experience. Low income kids don’t often have the choice to live on campus, but if your family doesn’t qualify for need based aid you’re not low income. It doesn’t mean your parents can afford to pay for you to go away to school – a lot of families who aren’t low income can’t – but if you want to do it there are good ways to accomplish it. In my opinion, borrowing double the amount of the federal student loans isn’t one of them.
We were going from information given as far as trying to give advice. You said you have two siblings and the EFC was over $30k, that your mom is still paying on her student loans and therefore your parents could not help you.
We are also a family of 5 and our EFC is less than 1/3 that of your family so I know the household income must be very different, but we would not be able to or willing to borrow almost $50k in Plus loans.
We just want you to know all the facts for your situation so you can’t say later that you didn’t know something.
We were trying to help you to come up with alternatives, like attending ASU without Barrett which would save money because you could then live off campus.
The link for Taylor Place clearly states that sophomore housing is even more costly than freshman.
You keep your NGSC scholarship if all requirements of the program are met.
You definitely will have to work as much as possible in the summer if you want to have a cushion for future year price increases.
I don’t know if your family’s income qualifies for the American Opportunity tax credit. That might help a bit.
And my D got some one-time scholarships and they helped, so I did not mean to forget about it in that way, but simply that you can’t count on it for paying your bill that is due in less than a week.
I do hope things work out ok for you. My intent was simply to help, to inform about all facts as known so an informed decision can be made.
And no, I don’t know exactly how much we are able to pay each year, but since our EFC is lower, between the student loan, the state grant and her work earnings, she could cover it if she needed to.
Twoin- the issue is not the cobbling- which is an activity that many college parents are very well familiar with.
The issue is that unlike in YOUR situation, this is an 18 year old kid doing the cobbling. Not the parents on the phone trying to sort out the nuances of five different sources of aid; not the parents working the math to see if there is a cheaper dorm- one with a kitchenette so their D doesn’t need to buy a meal plan; not the parents trying to see if a one-off scholarship can be extended to four years and if so, how?
This is a teenager, who does not seem to have the facts at her disposal about her parents finances, borrowing capacity, home equity, ability to borrow against a 401K at work or a whole life insurance policy- or how much cash they can free up by stopping contributions to an IRA for the next four years. What she knows is their EFC, and how much college costs. And she’s worked hard- mightily hard- to bridge what seems like a very big gap to parents (and we’re not trying to be insensitive here) particularly since the plan doesn’t seem to include a monthly cash-flow analysis of what is due when, AND ignores the fact that borrowing for parents who already seemed overwhelmed financially is likely a bad plan going forward.
If I had started my kids college careers without knowing that costs go up every year- I’d have been upset. If I had started my kids college careers without building in a cash cushion- my kids attended two grandparent funerals during college which required some unanticipated expenses getting them hither and thither- I’d have been upset. If I had started my kids college careers without planning for an extra lab fee, or a book which we could not find on Amazon or Ebay or similar despite weeks of searching- I’d have been upset.
You can budget $500 for books for a semester- and discover that the book that puts you over the edge can be found at the library (non-circulating). Terrific. And then a week before the midterm the book disappears. So do you flunk the class (none of your classmates are willing to lend it to you for more than an hour at a time), withdraw, or bite the bullet and buy the book???
Any kid whose budget is as tight as this one- and who has come on a public message board for help- needs to understand the consequences of the tight budget. She is not willing to consider a cheaper college, or a commuting arrangement, or taking a gap year to work full time and save money- all of which is her prerogative. But there seems to be a gap in funding here which a small bump in the road can derail.
Worst of all possible worlds- student loans and no degree. Doesn’t matter if it’s mom or dad or kid on the hook- worst possible outcome. And Twoin- I suspect you agree with me.
Don’t forget about the American Opportunity Tax Credit. This could give your parents up to a 2500 dollar credit if they qualify.
I actually don’t agree with you. I went to school ‘poor.’ If my grandfather had died while I was in school, I wouldn’t have been able to go to the funeral. Those were the finances in my life, not a cent to spare. My own daughter is trying to pull her finances together on her own becausee I just don’t have the money she needs, and she failed to earn it this summer. She’s calling the school, she’s asking relativies, she’s trying to figure out how much she can work and how much she can earn this semester. I’m not willing to take out Plus loans, so she’s limited in that way. Wish I had the pot of money, but I dont. My daughter is 20, not 18, but her sense of finance is at about a 13 year old level (earn it, spend it). I want her to leave school and work, but she doesn’t want to do that so she’s trying to figure it out. I’m helping how I can, making suggestion to drop a class, work more, stop swiping her debit card and use cash, but at this point it is on her.
Lovenetc came on here with a $26k bill and no way to pay it. She’s gotten it down to $13k. Has she made some excuses (couldn’t work because she had to go to Puerto Rico, no jobs)? Yes. Has she figured out how to get $10k in scholarshps? Yes. Her parents have agreed to fund the rest of her bill. We’d all rather they had saved the $10k, but they didn’t.
Some families don’t mind debt and assume they will borrow to send their kids to college. Martin O’Malley took out $350k in plus loans and no one faults him for not saving that while his kids were little, and he was governor. His kids could have gone to the state school, but they didnt. And he has two more to send to college so he wasnt wor ring abut taking lots of loans. I’d rather see @Lovenetc’s family take out $10k for room and board than spend it on a trip to Disney. Next year will bring other circumstances. She might live off campus, might be an RA, might live with relatives. Maybe he family will change their borrowing and downsize their costs and borrow less.
I wish everyone had a 4 year plan. I wish I could have had a 4 year plan. For one daughter it is working out great and she’ll have little debt, but for this one, things change every year and she scrambles.
Student Loans and no degree? You don’t agree with my point that this is a worst case outcome to be avoided?
I’m not criticizing anyone who has to borrow and scrape to make it through. But are you really advocating loans if a kid needs to drop out/stop out/leave due to finances?
I’m sure you know kids paying off college loans who didn’t actually complete a college education. I do. They are folding sweaters at the Gap (the HS job) and living at home and seeing every nickel go to student loans.
Not sure what this has to do with Martin O’Malley. My guess is that someone who has been a governor may have lean years, tight years, or “below capacity” earning years… but at the end of the day, he’s not fundamentally worried about his long term financial prospects. There is zero indication that this is Lovenetc’s situation- parents in a temporary bind but a long term, high earning and financially secure family on a fundamental basis.
ARGH.
There is a WORLD of difference between having some gaps in future funding and having a several thousand dollar gap already the FIRST year and that will increase substantially as the student goes along.
I was a poor student. I had a few thousand dollar gap every year that I had to work my butt off to pay. I worked full time during the school year and more than full time in summers. I GET it. I didn’t have any parental help working to tie up those loose ends- it was all on me.
I wanted nothing more than for the OP to make this work but this is NOT making it work. At this rate, her parents will have tens of thousands of dollars of debt at the end of her college journey- and there’s really no assurance that she’s going to make it to graduation. What if her parents are denied a PLUS loan in the future? This is just NOT a sustainable plan.
To encourage students to go to school when they have significant financial gaps and no guarantees to fill it is just plain WRONG in my opinion. You may be encouraging the worst possible outcome: debt and no degree.
OP, truly, from the bottom of my heart, I hope this works out for you but this is not a sustainable plan. I know you’re going to continue to ignore all of our advice but I truly wish you would back out NOW and reapply to affordable options next year as a freshman.
I’m out.
Do you think all parents taking the Plus loan are experiencing an temporary financial problem? They aren’t. This is how they live their lives. This is how they ‘planned’ to pay for college.
The OP parents make over $100k per year and spend it. O’Malley was making $150k per year and so was his wife when their girls went to school. They had been paying $25k per year for high school, plenty to pay for U of Maryland or many other schools. They borrowed the money because they wanted what they wanted, for their kids to go to private or OOS schools, for their younger boys to continue in private schools. Choices. In fact it was a choice for them to be in public service jobs as they could have made more money in private practice.
I think the mistake OP is made is not having worked this summer ($1200 for the volunteer work was nice, but she could have made more). I think she should give up the Honors college and live in a cheaper dorm situation. But that’s me. I’m adverse to debt. She isn’t, her parents aren’t. They have the Plus loans so that people in this situation can go to school. I personally think they shouldn’t offer them. I think there shouldn’t be private loans. But they are available and until I’m king, they will remain available.
I worked in high risk finance. People borrowed at 36%. Regularly. For some, it was a disaster and they defaulted. For others, they used us like a bank, they LIKED the personal service, they liked being able to buy a snowmobile when they wanted it, they wanted new carpet when they wanted it and yes, with the high interest rate they paid double. We were the only option for these people. Now, there are pay day lenders and Indian owned lenders (no supervision) lending at 150%. There have always been ‘Rent a Center’ places renting at rates that would be close to 500%.
I’m not encouraging OP to borrow the money or not. It’s her choice. I would not borrow it but lots of people do, and a lot borrow more than $13k per year.
^^this thread is from April, before the May 1 decision deadline
We were estimating back then that (at best case scenario) OP would have to come up with about $12k for room and board. Because the service scholarship was at most covering tuition and fees, leaving room and board.
The downtown campus Barrett honors students live at Taylor Place and there is no cheaper room option. Not sure about meal plan. And as far as I know the Barrett honors students are required to live on campus for 2 years.
I did not know until now that OP’s parents were willing to take out plus loans.
I’m still saying that direct student loans should be exhausted first for several reasons.
Twoin- I get it. Some folks are bad with money.
But you seem to be delivering a mixed message here- to the OP- “there’s no problem scrambling every August to figure out your finances- many people do” and to the rest of us “Plus loans are a terrible idea- like buying a couch from Rent-a-Center.”
Which is it? You’re accusing folks here of being insensitive to families who have to scramble. I don’t think anyone has been. The fact that you- a professional with a finance background have concluded that Plus loans are a terrible idea- somehow means that another family- reaching for their kid to attend a college which they don’t seem to be able to afford- should do it because it’s August and the deadline is here and it’s fish or cut bait time?
It would be terrible for a kid this young and ambitious to end up in debt with no degree. That’s the beginning and end of it for me- and the fact that you are able to be on the phone to help your kid navigate her financial options, obviously with great professionalism and a good understanding of cash flow- doesn’t mean that scrambling is going to work for every family.
And yes- folks borrow when they have cash flow issues. Not everyone who borrows for college is irresponsible with money, and many of them DO have temporary issues. An elderly grandparent who has put money in trust for the kid but has outlived the actuarial tables- and now that the parent has dementia, the will and trust can’t be altered without triggering a fight among the other heirs. A major asset (vacation home) which is on the market, may not sell for another year. A parent who is five months away from paying off the loan that allowed the “buy in” to a lucrative medical practice.
All folks with a temporary financial squeeze but solid credit, good with money, enough income long term to comfortably make the payments.
If I were in charge, I wouldn’t have the Plus loans and the private (government program) loans. Period. The decision about whether to take $10k in Plus loans wouldn’t be there and that would FORCE students to make other choices (or schools to change their funding). But the choice is there and I do not think students/families who decide to take the loans are doomed or idiots or shouldn’t go to college because they don’t know what will happen in 3 years. They live day to day. They are okay with the Plus loans. I would never use Rent a Center, but I don’t care if other people do. If someone asked me “should I borrow at 36%?” I’d say no, yet it was my job to make those loans, to market those loans, to not say a word if the purpose of the loan was to go on a Disney vacation. If asked “Should I borrow a Plus loan?” I’d tell them look at all the costs and options before they did it. I, personally, have chosen not to take a Plus loan even if it means my daughter can’t go to college this fall. She’s sad, she’s crying, but I made that decision. If another parent makes a different choice, and a lot do since a lot of them take the Plus loans, that’s their choice for their families. If I were the OP’s parent, I’d make the same choice, no Plus loan, but hers have made a different choice. It’s not shocking or surprising or illegal. Many parents do choose the Plus program.
And I know by eliminating Plus and private loans, fewer students would get to go to college. That’s the price of playing Big Brother and not letting families go into debt. Closing high risk lending down means fewer people will have access to banking; they become ‘unbanked’ and either go to even higher rate lenders (Indian Tribe lending) or underground to loan sharks. It is a legislative choice.
I had two kids start college at the same time and for one it is working perfectly, she’s earned money, her financial aid has gone up every year, there are no issues. She’s not traveling around Europe, she’s not living in a luxury apartment, but she’d doing fine. For the other it is not going so smoothly because of choices she’s made. She changed majors and lost a scholarship for that major. She took a semester off and didn’t make much money and spent what she did make. Should I have not sent them to college 2 years ago because my job ended and I didn’t know if I would have a job for their sophomore year, junior year? It worked for one, not for the other, but how was I to know that 2 years ago? Day to day. I live day to day. And if my scrambling daughter doesn’t make it this semester, she can go back next spring, and yes, she will be working at the GAP, folding sweaters, and paying her student loans from last year.
If my daughter can’t continue at school, I don’t think the time or money she’s spent so far is wasted. She learned a lot, she had a good experience, she can always return to school and has those credits. If OP can’t go back to school sophomore year and has to take a break, that’s okay. She can work and earn enough to go back the next year. I don’t think all families have funds for funerals and emergency trips and still choose to go to college. My grandfather would rather I went to college than to his funeral (and he died 6 months after I graduated, so I did attend). If I was sick at college, I was on my own. My mother didn’t even come to my graduation. Last year, I couldn’t visit my daughter at all for her games I wish it were different and that I’d been able to go to all of them. I’d still rather she go to college and me miss her games than she not go.
Plus loans aren’t based on credit scores or income. People who qualify in year 1 will qualify in year 4 as long as there have not been major changes to their financial record (default to a government loan, bankruptcy, more than 90 days delinquent on a major debt). The fact that the parent has borrowed $50k in Plus loans already does not disqualify them from borrowing more.
This student has been scrambling to get enough money for THIS year since she was accepted. It looks like she is still short…and didn’t ASU classes actually start? Or are they starting soon?
This is going to happen again and again…and the student will have a larger gap to fill next year because the one year on,y awards will not be there for her.
“This is going to happen again and again…and the student will have a larger gap to fill next year because the one year on,y awards will not be there for her.”
This is the real problem. It sounds like this year is “affordable”… with max loans and an excessive work schedule. The years to come are unlikely to work out.