<p>frazzled, I do have to say that the situation you described is actually perfectly possible (although the teacher certainly may have had something to do with the low score). The Co-Valedictorian of my own school, who was admitted to 3+ selective and highly selective universities (Northwestern being the biggest name), received an A junior year in our school's very challenging AP Spanish Language course, but only a 3 on the exam (yes, I know this for a fact). Spanish Language is certainly a tough exam, but the Foreign Language teachers at our school are quite comprehensive, and non-native speakers (including the other Val) DO receive 4's and 5's at our school. Though certainly a fairly intelligent person, in my opinion the student in question was far more hardworking and grade-obsessed than scholarly and thoughtful. Example: I asked him and a couple of other kids once if he thought it was worth my time to finish a problem on our math homework--I could do it right there in class and have my teacher re-grade the homework, but it would have taken several minutes and was only worth ONE point. In fact, when the homework grade was factored into the extremely complicated formula that our teacher used to determine our overall grades, it would have been worth less than one point. His response to my query? "Of course [you should do it]. I never give up a point ever!" Okay...that's not how I prefer to live, but I guess that's why I graduated a lowly 14/770! (I didn't do the problem...it was only important to me that I understood it) So, long story short: I find it perfectly believable that the student in your story was not impeded by a bad teacher.</p>
<p>Not that the teacher in question sounds like anything great (I, too, have never heard of an English teacher who didn't enjoy reading in their free time). I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.</p>
<p>I've found this to be the case, as well, in classes where grades are based on stuff other than knowledge of the subject matter.</p>
<p>I've griped before here on CC about classes my sons took where I scratched my head trying to figure out their <em>real</em> skills in a given subject. Classes where grades were determined by homework checks, notebook checks, posters, poems (in math), songs (again, math)...I digress in my frustration...but the point is...</p>
<p>I take quarterly "assessments" very seriously. To me, I'd really like to know exactly how my son is doing in math, or physical science, or language arts, or latin. Not that that other stuff isn't important, but maybe it should be a separate <em>line item</em> on the report card:</p>
<p>Mastery of subject matter.....A
Consistency in homework......B
Math poem.........................F
Final Grade.........................C</p>
<p>OK, I can deal with that. At least I know he's good at math, and doesn't need remediation.</p>
<p>Anyway, so much of grading is, IMO, bs. It doesn't surprise me that kids get A's in an AP class and then a 2 on the exam. But that's not the kid's fault, necessarily.</p>
<p>But, those (girls) who ace the math poem, according to DP's aforementioned points, might have only a C in mastery of subject, and thus would not get an A in AP anyway (then the 2 on the exam makes a bit of sense).</p>
<p>I suspect that kids who get A's in classwork and 2's on the AP test are the beneficiaries of some serious grade inflation. Kids who know their material get 4's and 5's, pretty consistently.</p>
<p>I have a question for the parents and teachers here. I already tried to research this on CC's AP forum but couldn't get a clear answer.</p>
<p>Should I have my S get his AP-Euro score of 3 rescored? It only involves credits awarded at college upcoming; he's already been admitted.</p>
<p>He's a fine student of history, got a 96 in class from a very hard teacher, pulled a 5 on the AP-U.S. History back in 10th grade. He had every reason to expect a 4 or 5 on AP-European History in 12th grade. His other AP's were 3,4,and 5 this year.</p>
<p>If he gets a 4, rather than a 3, it's worth 3 credits at his new college. The score of 3 gets him 0 there. He is thrilled to have earned 15 credits from the other AP results, but was disappointed (pride) with that Euro result, especially since it's his strongest suit by far.</p>
<p>What does it cost, what is their process (do they only check MC scores or also reread the essay/DBQ?). Is there any reason NOT to pursue this? I thought, no downside, possible up-side.</p>
<p>thanks for any thoughts. (Note: we phoned, b/c info was needed for summer course pre-registration. Also, he was asking every l0 minutes)</p>
<p>Point is, grades SHOULD indicate mastery of subject, IMO.</p>
<p>I don't want my son getting all A's but going off to college and failing something because he doesn't have the requisite skills. I don't want to go out and find a tutor because he's making C's if he really does have a handle on the subject. There needs to be a delineation between skill sets.</p>
<p>Homeschoolers don't have this problem. Their parents know and can adapt to the needs of their children.</p>
<p>paying3,
Have you asked your son how he felt about the exam? My son did very poorly on an exam and he knew exactly what had happened; he blew a portion of the test and knew it soon after it happened but time ran out. Obviously he didn't rescore because he knew how it would turn out.</p>
<p>Does your son think there's a problem?</p>
<p>I had a friend whose son took the SAT a year ago, when there was that big scoring problem...he KNEW the minute he got that score back that he couldn't have done that poorly.</p>
<p>Totally agree with you there, DP. Grades should absolutely indicate mastery (or not) of subjects. However, we all know that isn't true. I have seen kids get A's in English who are unable to formulate a coherent argument in an essay. Seems ridiculous, but it happens too often for it to be a fluke.</p>
<p>PS The boy/girl thread went poof...sometime last week I think.</p>
<p>doubleplay, he did say that there was a DBQ and he took a very risky approach to it, it was very puzzling too. I read over on the AP site one of the kids commenting about this crazy-bizzarro DBQ on Euro history this year.
My S thinks he had the MC down pat, just fine. He believes the only problem he can imagine is how he approached that one DBQ. No time management problems.</p>
<p>Allmusic^^^Exactly! Either way, it's a disservice to the student and the parents to give A's when there isn't mastery, or give C's, D's, F's :eek: when there is. I do not have a problem with a separate line item on the quarterly assessments for "enrichment", "unrelated tasks", "homework", "participation", or whatever. Or, I'll even go for including all of that in the final grade, but at least break out the "mastery" portion so I really know how my kid is doing. Otherwise, I end up at Barnes and Noble getting "XXX for Dummies" books, for no reason!</p>
<p>I'm assuming you pay to have a rescore (like SAT)?</p>
<p>I guess I'd look at the breakdown of the DBQs vs the MC. Like, is it 80% MC vs. 20% DBQ? Do they have more than one DBQ, as well? Maybe he can sit down and sort of guesstimate how he thinks he did on the MC, and based on the % breakdown of the various portions of the test, assess whether it's possible that there was a grading error.</p>
<p>Another problem with APs is they don't give you a "score" like SAT...650, 790, 540. etc. You can have a 3 that is one point away from a 4. </p>
<p>The question I'd ask is, after getting the information, can you imagine having made anything less than a <em>solid, mid-range</em> 4 or higher? If the answer is NO!, then I'd have it rescored.</p>
<p>What is DBQ? p3y, I don't know the process for what you're talking about, but I can see why you and your son would want to double check. If my son got a 3 on Calc, we wouldn't wonder why, but on Gov, we'd be incredulous.</p>
<p>DBQ is where they give you some materials- charts, old articles, etc., and you have to synthesize that information plus what you already know into an essay.</p>
<p>Edit:</p>
<p>When my son took APUSH, the teacher crammed practice DPQs down their throats. They must have done many dozens of them for homework and quizzes by the time they finished the course.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, bethievt, for using the abbreviation--
DBQ is "data-based question"
I believe this means the test puts up information/data, often a primary source such as a page of a diary, editorial cartoon from the times, and so on.
Then they ask many questions about it. If you know your history from the course taken, you can answer the question.
Actually, I'm not even sure if it's many questions, short answers, or one big essay that constitutes "DBQ"</p>
<p>(Edit: oops, posted this one page too late.... sorry...) My son's scores have been here for awhile. The bummer is that Rice no longer offers "distribution credit" for many of the scores (languages, Gov, Econ, English, etc). In other words, they give students credit on their college transcripts for the scores, but the courses don't count towards the requirements that each student take at least 12 hours of coursework in each of three distribution areas. I understand this on one hand, since I don't think AP classes are really at a university level, but on the other hand.... DS took the AP Gov exam since last year Rice accepted it for division credit, and, if we had known it wasn't going to count, I would have saved some money and son would have had one less exam to take! :(</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Should I have my S get his AP-Euro score of 3 rescored?<<</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>My D also got a 3 on her AP-Euro exam (her first AP exam), which seemed a little surprising to me since she did so well in the class and really did the work. She's away for a month this summer, so we really haven't discussed it. (No reason to get her thinking down thoughts ala OP's kid while she's far from home.) This thread has been good to give me some ideas to discuss with her about her score. </p>
<p>I don't want her to feel like never taking another AP test EVER!</p>
<p>p3t, if your son would like it, I'd be inclined to pay for another read. It's quite possible the DBQ did him in, but another reader might like it. I got a score of a zero on the architecture exam by one grader - it was completely uncalled for, the other reader gave me a 3 out of 4. Sometimes you will just hit a bad grader.</p>
<p>It's my understanding that a rescoring of the AP tests involves ONLY a rescoring of the machine graded part, i.e. for machine errors. The essay (DBQ, etc.) are NOT rescored. You might double-check on CB website.</p>
<p>According to post #99, post #98 rules. Sounds like it costs $25 but they only rescore the Multiple Choice and don't revisit the DBQ.
I'll revisit it once with my S just to see if he holds to his thought that it was the DBQ. Because I'm a sucker, I'll offer to split costs with him on the $25, just to make sure he's invested in the outcome.
It's no tragedy, obviously, because he got 15 college credits from other exams. So happy! </p>
<p>Ellemenope (your screenname is fun to type) -- I hope your D can chalk this up to "first time" experience. If you haven't already come up with these cheerful spins: 3 still means she satisfied a college-type course while in h.s. She'll also get stronger with each course she takes next year, and the next AP's won't be until a whole year from now. Her study and writing skills will be that much stronger. The fact that some colleges honor a 3, even if not the ones she'll eventually attend, means that a 3 is still a valuable score. If you are really pleased and excited about a 3, she might just pick up on your attitude. And sometimes they set their own internal goals, for example, one of my S's other scores (Econ) was a 3 but he worked so hard for it, it thrilled him. He only minded the 3 in History because it's his best subject area. Oh well, it's just a test.</p>