I am sorry, but I cannot take you seriously. I don’t mean any offense to you, but I am going to move on.
Northwestern has historically been splitter-friendly for ALL majors.
And what Demo says and what Anna Ivey says can both be correct. In other words, an engineering splitter may get a small bump – since they hav such a high employment rate – over a basket-weaving major with the SAME GPA/LSAT, but an 3.1 engineer is not all of a sudden gonna look like a 3.5 engineer to an Adcom just bcos Lit/Hume classes have a median curve of a 3.5
@bluebayou: It’s certainly true that Ivey’s statements can be correct. I’ve just seen no reason to believe they are.
IMO, Demo, it is certainly logical that a LS would prefer, however so slightly, an engineering major over a same-stat basket-weaving major if, for no other reason, the engineer might have a slightly easier time getting a legal job (which boosts LS ratings.).
However, I agree that there is zero public data (er, ‘evidence’ in the LS thread) to show that an engineer punches above his/her GPA, which is what most posts like the OP’s are asking about.
Here is my advice: get a degree in computer science or stats, and go into data science / comp engineering out of college. Forget about law school. I say that since you are an engineering major and I presume that you have the mathematical chops to handle CS major.
If for some reason you entertain the idea of law school, you better get that gpa above 3.0 and have lsat above 170. If your numbers are weak, you will not end up at a law school that gives you a positive ROI. Also, even if you get into a top law school with bad gpa + high lsat combo, you won’t get any scholarship, meaning you will be stuck with sticker debt to attend a top law school. (think 250-300k+ debt)
Source: JD / MBA grad from a top school.
When law school deans say “low GPA” they don’t mean 2.9 or 3.0 in engineering. They mean 3.5.
Adcoms don’t even see the other apps. First readers or algorithms simply eliminate based on GPA*LSAT, the major isn’t even computed in the formula. After that, committees will consider majors and a s a subgroup 3.5 Engineers will fare better than their 3.5 Humanities counterparts, but that’s because the 3.5 doesn’t “mean” the same thing.
@applicant01: I would advise you talk to your parents about the great professional opportunities in Data Science, probably even more recession-proof than Engineering, and switch to that. This way you’ll avoid lots of classes you may not like (since you don’t like Engineering) while keeping your major directly employable and in the sciences, which your parents want. It’s a way to try and protect your GPA.
Often when law schools refer to “low GPA” it is relative to that law school’s median GPA.
In addition to Anna Ivey’s book on law school admissions, Ann K. Levine’s book is another resource.
If you don’t like engineering, why are you continuing ? I know…your parents.
Your parents don’t have to sit in on the classes, do the homework and take those soul crushing tests in engineering school. Just change your major if you are not too far along to help your GPA.
That said, as one who studied engineering and comp sci long ago, I have had a long career in tech,
and my wife is a lawyer. My income is much higher with a lower cost of education.
She has many attorney friends. It is typical for experience lawyers to make the same salary
as an entry level job in tech. I really find it hard to believe why anyone would prefer law school to studying any technical field. Unless you go to a top law school, and get into a top law firm, seems like a long shot to payoff. That said, you should do what you love. Does your undergrad school have any undergrad law courses to at least get some exposure to the material and skills required ? Many business schools, philosophy and poly sci departments offer undergrad law courses to give you a taste of what would lie ahead.
I know you are only concerned with getting in, but you should be focused on determining the right direction for you, and if law is it, then study like hell for the LSAT.
Patent lawyers.
@blevine That’s true a lot of college students and high schoolers think once they go to “a” law school that they’ll make the 180k first years make in big law but that’s simply not the case. Most will see sub 100 to start especially if they’re in the public sector. It’s not as glamorous as the tv shows make it to be.
@Publisher There are only so many patent lawyers, and if this kid does not like engineering and having trouble with grades, not sure they would make it or want to be a patent lawyer. Patent lawyer is a goal to strive for, not a “backup plan” in case other things don’t work out.
The average starting salary of most major tech schools, even 2nd tier, is around 60k with top schools getting 80k avg starting salaries, and most are employed quickly. Avg law grad is UNEMPLOYED for a long while.
@blevine: I agree with you.
@10s4life The numbers you quote for the lucky ones that can find a job. Many don’t and end up working outside the legal profession.
Tbh OP if you want law do law because you want to and don’t have engineering as a backup. And vice versa don’t have engineering as a backup to law. Both are tough paths. Engineering is a good field though. My school’s average starting salary for new grads is $79k
Being a lawyer is boring. And mentally exhausting. For most other jobs, you can auto-pilot half the time and get by. For Biglaw, you have to be laser focused all the time, even when you are doing grunt due diligence work. It gets very tiring.
I personally think that business jobs are much more interesting: top tier management consulting, elite bouqiute / bulge bracket investment banking. I am glad I did JD / MBA though. I worked in Biglaw and made a switch to a consulting firm as a consultant, and not looking back.
Engineering starting pay is good, but it doesn’t give my much of an upside. There is a reason why many engineers want to do top MBA and go into a business related career. More interesting work, chance to have a sales component in your job, more inter personal, and more money to be made.
I say that, comp science / data science would probably the only engineering career that I would consider going into, over a business career, if I was a young college student picking potential careers. Engineering fields such as Mechanical or Industrial: work not too exciting, pay not too good, and there is a harsh ceiling in your salary.
@NYULawyer: I agree with your post.
I have many relatives with engineering degrees & all hit a salary/earnings ceiling. Those that earned MBAs or went into business analytics saw a substantial increase in earnings. In fact, the highest earner, graduated with an EE degree & was well into the top 5% of his class, now works in analytics & earns dramatically more than he did as an EE with over a decade of experience. Actually works out of his home, but has to fly to San Francisco/Silicon Valley a few times a month.
I wouldn’t trade litigating for engineering or business. I agree that if money is what motivated you, law is a bad bet. But if law is what interests you, only law will do.
^ Problem with litigation: lack of lucrative exit options. In-house gigs don’t take many Biglaw litigators. Biglaw corp is better for in-house exit options. As a litigator, if you don’t make partner and get pushed out of Biglaw, the only good option is to go become a government agency attorney. But these jobs are hard to get.
@NYULawyer That’s a very narrow view of the law — big law, in-house, or govt. There are many more options for a litigator exiting Biglaw, including the most often taken path — mid-size to boutique.