A rising high school freshman has taken following community college courses that are equivalent to AP courses in parentheses, as dual enrollment during her (home) middle school, earning all A’s.
U.S. History I & II (equiv. AP US History)
English Composition (AP English Language and Composition)
Spanish (equiv. AP Spanish Language and Culture)
Algebra-based Physics I (equiv. AP Physics 1)
Art History I & II (equiv. AP Art History)
2D Design & 3D Design & Drawing (equiv. AP Studio Art: 2-D Design & 3-D Design & Drawing)
She is entering an academically rigorous private high school this Fall, as a freshman, and will take many lower level courses, and eventually some AP courses in subjects that she has already taken AP level college courses. The high school seems to offer equal or more rigor than her community college.
But I am curious how colleges will view them when she applies 4 years later.
Will she be disadvantaged because she wouldn’t be seen as taking the most challenging courses, or repeating bunch of courses?
Or will the credits be given little thought since they were taken before 9th grade? - Then what if she just skips U.S. History in high school, will then they consider her college U.S. history courses?
I would like to get an idea of how college admission officers will think of this.
Thank you in advance.
What colleges?
If she is advanced enough to have completed college-frosh level courses in many subjects, she could run out of useful courses even at academically strong high schools, unless they allow her to take more advanced college courses at a nearby college.
When she applies to colleges, she will have to include all high school and college course work in her academic record. It would look odd to an admissions reader if she took college courses and then repeated the material in high school AP courses.
Regarding the specific courses, there may still be value in taking additional English courses with different readings from what were in her college English course, although if the English courses are taught at a lower level than she handled in the college English course, they may not have much value.
For Spanish, it depends on what level she completed at the college. A very rough approximation for foreign language courses is that a semester in college approximates a year in high school, or an AP score of 5 approximates completion of the third or sometimes fourth semester in college (lower placement for lower scores), but there is considerable variation in both colleges and high schools. She can ask the high school’s Spanish teachers what the proper placement for her is, or if she is already beyond the highest level Spanish course they teach (in which case, she may want to start a different language in high school).
There does not seem to be much reason to repeat the physics, art, or history courses. For physics, she can take the non-calculus physics 2 course, or take the physics C sequence. For art, she may want to see what other art courses are available. For US history, since this is commonly a high school graduation requirement, check whether the high school considers the college course to fulfill the requirement.
No idea on what colleges she will apply to 4 years later, but could include several selective universities. And she will probably put into lower level courses than the ones she completed, so she wouldn’t run out of useful courses. I don’t worry about the rigor and values in them. I already concluded that they are good. Otherwise she wouldn’t be entering to the high school.
But it might look odd indeed, and I wonder how odd or damaging it will be on her application for selective universities.
She has taken several more college courses that are not equivalent to specific AP courses. It’s quite uncommon. Yes.
I would try as much as possible to avoid repeating material she’s already done. What does the hs GC say? Can they give her placement tests to see whether what she’s done already is really the equivalent? For instance, can she take a practice APUSH exam and have the APUSH teacher grade it and see what they think?
The Spanish can easily be solved by taking a different language. I wouldn’t worry about the English–they probably won’t read the exact same books, and she can always improve on reading and writing skills. Not sure the level of studio art classes matters as much either–she can work on her skills in the class. Maybe try something different like photography? For physics, she could continue in physics C if offered, or physics 2.
I know while our hs formally considers AP and dual classes to be equivalent, that the kids think AP is harder.
She will take placement test for Math and Spanish, so that’s fine. English and History, it’s a very small class and she can just write essays on her own level so they are ok too. Art is where she is independent and will probably be treated so. My last concern was science. But that’s only one area and I came to trust that the science department will figure out what’s best for her.
So I really don’t have a concern on her learning level at all. The only concern is how it will be looked by college admissions. Not that it’s more important than her high school years and we will change the plan if it means she won’t get into any Ivys. But I am still curious and it’s better to be ready than be bummed.
For science, has she taken any biology or chemistry (high school or college level) yet? If not, she will presumably take it anyway at the high school. For physics, the options to avoid useless repeating of what she already knows are described in reply #1 and #3.
For history, if she can waive US history based on the college course, she can take elective history courses or other academic electives and learn something new.
Thanks. She has taken a below-AP chemistry and is taking a below-AP biology at a community college. But they have been challenging and it won’t be useless if she ends up repeating them. Repeating U.S. History is of no concern if it is an essay based course. She cam simply choose different events to write about… as long as colleges won’t look down her for that. The colleges will know that the high school is very rigorous and writing-heavy.
Looks like she can then take the AP-level courses in biology and chemistry at the high school (yes, it may look weird having taken high school level biology and chemistry at a college, and AP-level biology and chemistry at a high school, but it would not be useless duplication, since many high schools specify regular biology / chemistry followed by AP biology / chemistry).
If the high school offers lots of writing intensive elective history courses, she may want to see if any of those would be more interesting than repeating US history (if the high school will waive US history based on the college course). This is not just for college admission, but also for the purpose of using academic opportunities to the fullest extent possible.
Probably she will be taking a poet’s physics that doesn’t require algebra II, 1st year honors chemistry or biology equivalent to what she has taken. I don’t think she will be placed in an AP course as a freshman.
That seems like a complete waste of time for her (and tuition for you), regardless of what a future college admissions reader may think.
Academics is not the major reason for ending homeschooling anyway. She wants to be with age peers all time.
And the classes are so small and teachers really accommodate each student. I was skeptical in the beginning. But eventually I decided that it won’t be. Even though she has been getting A’s, it has a lot to do with curving and grade inflation. She hasn’t really mastered the material. The highschool does seem to provide good challenges.
Question is, will the colleges understand it?
Yes, I don’t think the colleges will be bothered by courses taken before 9th grade. I agree that English classes are generally taught to the level of the student - at least they were at my private school. I’d have no worries about art. Repeating US History seems silly, but if you think the level of instruction is much higher at the new high school, it may be worth it. You might ask the private school whether they would be including her college transcript, or whether that would be up to you.
Thanks. Her college US History II was covering only a few major events that shaped modern history, and then each student choosing an own topic to research and write about. It seems the high school has similar approach. So I feel that it will be like English, taught to the level of the student. If not, then she still has a lot of gaps to be filled in specific historical events because her college course wasn’t comprehensive.
@ucbalumnus @mathmom @mathyone
Hello. Daughter will be attending a less rigorous high school after all. And this school doesn’t recommend repeating course. So it seems that she will have lots of choices for her courses.
Now the question is will the colleges look at her college courses taken in middle school years, if they are neither repeated nor taken at higher level in high school; U.S. History, Art History, Studio Art (2D & 3D & Drawing)
Also, would it be a good idea to take AP Environmental Science in freshman if they don’t have AP Physics 2, and you already took equiv. AP Physics 1, Honors Bio and Honors Chem?
As I understand both AP Bio and AP Chem are very hard and won’t be good for her in freshman year, and she doesn’t have Calculus yet for Physics C.
Or would it be better to instead take an elective such as computer programming or robotics?
AP Environmental has the reputation for being one of the easier APs and generally worth 1 semester of credit in college if they accept it. In our high school it is very, very, very rare for any freshman to take an AP. (My older son took AP Comp Sci as a freshman, my younger son took his first AP sophomore year. A small group turned the two year NY Global History course into AP World History.) If your child is at all math/science oriented I think an intro to computer programming would be a great idea.
Do top colleges even count courses taken before 9th grade? In our district, students aiming for top schools prefer IB/AP courses over dual credit community college courses as those are at higher level. All of them get lot of credit hours for IB/AB so in the end if they do end up at state schools, they come way ahead of people who took dual credit courses for associate degree from community colleges. If your daughter is ahead then she’ll get a great GPA and she can also take courses at local university during summer or take credit by exam for some subjects or self study and give AP tests for some subjects. How old is she?
If she is really advance then enrolling her in a less rigorous school may not be the right step.
It is likely that they will be treated similarly to other college courses taken while in high school. But ask specifically any likely colleges of interest if you are not sure. Given that she is not yet in high school, it is way too early to determine a realistic list of colleges of interest, but perhaps a sample of (a) in-state publics, and (b) any other (particularly private) colleges that high achievers in your area tend to go to may be worth a quick look. It is likely that same-state public schools are the most generous with credit from non-remedial community college courses.
Of course, the colleges may have varied opinions of pre-matriculation college courses based on other factors, like whether they were taken at a community college, whether they were taken in a college classroom, whether they have dual enrollment credit, etc…
What is she interested in as far as the choice between AP environmental science, a CS course, or a robotics course, or any other available academic electives?
Not clear what you mean by “count”. It’s routine for honors middle school students to take high school level courses (usually algebra1, sometimes geometry, usually Spanish1 or French1. They go on the transcript in our school system and they count in the high school GPA. So I don’t know why anyone is suggesting that courses taken in middle school would be ignored by colleges.
As far as freshmen taking AP classes, some schools don’t permit it at all but at other schools it’s routine (generally with the easy AP human geog class). It is rare in our school for freshmen to take AP classes, but a small number of kids do. The classes I know a few freshmen at our school have successfully taken are AP calc, AP stats, and AP computer science, which is basically all the ones they can get into. (They aren’t allowed into the English and history APs and the science ones all have pre-requisites so they wouldn’t qualify for them.)
I can’t speak directly to AP Environmental as neither of my kids took it, but I do know in our school, and from what I read on this site, it is considered one of the easy APs. I wouldn’t get scared off by the AP label although AP bio is a lot of work and AP chem is one of the hardest APs. Unless your daughter is really interested in science and wanting to work hard at it, it’s probably best to wait for her to adjust to high school. If your daughter was able to manage cc classes in middle school then I think AP environmental would be fine for her, but another possibility might be any science elective. For instance, our school has an anatomy class.
I would be cautious about the equivalence of community college classes. I have no idea how rigorous your community college is. I would not make assumptions about how well prepared your daughter is for the next class. It might be good for her to look over the text and reading materials of classes whose equivalents she has taken at cc.
US history is a high school graduation requirement here and I think in pretty much all high schools. You need to talk to the counselor about that. In our school, APUSH is a junior level class anyhow so you would have a long time to think about this. Maybe she could ask to substitute AP European history for that, if your school has that class (ours doesn’t), or perhaps a history elective class.
Thanks for the advises. She never had chance to try programming and it might be a good idea. I am hoping that her 60+ semester college units taken during middle school years will somewhat help her in college admission, since she burned many midnight oils for them.
The school has AP European History and World History. I am hopping them will serve her in sophomore years when other students take AP US History.
She didn’t take them hoping for credits at 4 years university, so doesn’t need to be given credit for them. Local community colleges have been a good option while homeschooling, and that’s all. She is 13. Although she is entering a (boarding) high school for social experience, I think and hope that the AP courses that she will take at high school will be equally challenging.
She has been academically challenged hard for 8 years. I am fine with her being less challenged academically and more focusing on social activities and interactions now.