<p>Hi all! Although I'm not completely sure what I want to do yet, one of the best professions I can think of is that of a judge. I realize that becoming a judge requires being a respected lawyer first. I was just looking through the COAs of the "t14" law schools and those are SO expensive! And that's on top of the money spent on top undergraduate colleges necessary to get into those schools! Knowing that I cannot afford such expenses, I did a little research and found out that the University of South Carolina Honors College allows students to do a five year BS/JD degree that would end up being far cheaper than an undergraduate degree alone at a prestigious undergraduate school (I would most likely be able to get in with a nice scholarship judging from the average SAT scores). Although this sounds fantastic, as it is so inexpensive and allows for two more years out in the work force gaining experience, I'm scared that it's ranking at 98th would prevent me from becoming an important lawyer and then a judge. What do y'all think?</p>
<p>You can attend a T14 law school (with scholarships if one’s GPA and LSAT is high enough) even if you attended U South Carolina Honors College.</p>
<p>your assumption is incorrect on this important statement:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Unless you are the top of your class, the chance of finding a job requiring a JD are low.</p>
<p>Much better to take that merit scholarship to South Carolina, earn A’s, a good LSAT score and attend a T14 at a big discount.</p>
<p>Maybe things have changed and you know something I don’t, but it looks to me as if (a) it’s a SIX, not five year program and (b) you have to have at least a 3.5 and a required LOR from a particular person and (c)" Students must be able to complete their undergraduate program, including their senior thesis, by August of their fourth year (the first year of law school)." To me, it sounds as if you don’t have enough APs you’re going to be going to summer school - See more at: [South</a> Carolina Honors College - The University of South Carolina](<a href=“South Carolina Honors College - South Carolina Honors College | University of South Carolina”>South Carolina Honors College - South Carolina Honors College | University of South Carolina)</p>
<p>I’m not saying don’t do it, but I wouldn’t even consider doing it unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure you want to spend all of your working career in South Carolina. And, the thing is…I think it’s hard for a high school kid to know that.</p>
<p>My own kid head off to law school with a certain kind of career in mind. Not sure, but probable. But then said kid fell in love and eventually married someone else and had to adjust plans to accommodate someone else’s plans. And that person had to adjust plans too. That included finding a place to live where both of them can do something close to their original plan. </p>
<p>Again, I’m not saying no, but just that you will be limiting your chances of getting employed in other places by choosing USC compared to any of the top 14.</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant that it’s a six year BA/JD program.</p>
<p>@Catria: Thank you, I understood that but was just curious about the law school at USC!
@bluebayou: Is it really that impossible to get a job with a JD? I was thinking that since it’s in the capital city it would be easier to get clerkships and make connections with law firms and government officials while in college.
@jonri: Hmm, I can’t say that I’m certain I want to stay in SC forever. However, I am certain that I don’t want to be saddled with the $200,000+ debt that a three-year law degree seems to guarantee! Is it really that impossible to get law positions outside of SC with such a degree? I live near NYC and could probably make connections at firms there over summers, could those help?</p>
<p>Seriously, do some basic research. I googled and got this page. [Career</a> Services | University of South Carolina School of Law](<a href=“Careers - School of Law | University of South Carolina”>Careers - School of Law | University of South Carolina)</p>
<p>I checked one of the reports for the Class of 2012 and learned that over two-thirds of the class works in South Carolina. 2 people work in “Mid Atlantic states.”</p>
<p>Why would anyone hire you when there are students at NYC area law schools–that would include Brooklyn Law, Cardozo, CUNY, Columbia, Fordham, New York Law School, NYU Law, Pace, St. John’s, Touro and stretching just a bit Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall, and maybe a few I’ve missed–competing with you? And most, though not all, are higher ranked than So. C? </p>
<p>Many of these students will be willing to work during the school year too–which is something a lot of small law firms like. And the people in small firms like to hire kids that attend their alma maters and those alma maters are extremely unlikely to include anyone from U of So. C.
Plus, kids at the lower ranked law schools on that list may well have taken courses on NY Civil Procedure, NY Evidence, and other local law subjects that probably aren’t offered at U So. C.</p>
<p>Again, I can’t tell you that you won’t get a job in NYC if you go to law school in South Carolina, but I think it would be a lot harder.</p>
<p>You’re 16. There is no reason you have to have this all figured out now. In fact, there’s an excellent chance that you’ll decide you don’t want to to to law school at all and/or that the way law school is funded wil change by the time you are ready to apply. There’s even a chance that the school will discontinue the program.</p>
<p>@jonri: I did do some basic research. It looks like two people managed to find jobs in New York (I’m assuming the city), which is pretty impressive to me considering most of the students are from the SC area and, as you mentioned, the glut of law schools located in NYC and around the metro area. A $70,000 mean starting salary in the private sector doesn’t strike me as too shabby either for a 24 year old, and from what I know $70,000 is a lot more in SC than in NYC. And you’re right, I have no idea whether or not I wish to pursue this; it wouldn’t be a decision I have to make until sophomore year anyways. However, I am going to have to make SOME college decisions very soon, and if I were to pursue a law degree, this seems to make some more sense than spending half a million dollars on degrees from more prestigious graduate and undergraduate schools. Do you think that it makes more sense to get the undergraduate degree cheaply from USC and then spend $200,000+ on the law degree from a t14 (assuming I have the scores to attain admission)?</p>
<p>I don’t see 2 people in New York for the Class of 2012. Where are you getting that? I’m also not seeing an average salary of $70,000 a year. …I would agree it would be more impressive in SC than NYC. But…say you’re right…</p>
<p>I haven’t a clue what you should do. That’s because I don’t know you and I don’t know how likely it is that you’ll end up being a lawyer and/or have the stats to get into a top 14 law school. Heck, nobody can know that sort of stuff with certainty, but you yourself should have a better idea than I do. I also don’t know your family’s fin aid situation.</p>
<p>I don’t see the U of S Carolina law school being all that cheap. Maybe I’m missing something. It does give you $5,000 if you have a 160 LSAT or some such …I forget the details. But the cost of tuition is listed here. [Tuition</a> & Fees : Admissions | University of South Carolina School of Law](<a href=“School of Law - School of Law | University of South Carolina”>School of Law - School of Law | University of South Carolina) Looks like if you are out of state and get a merit scholarship, tuition and fees run about $25,000. If you don’t have a merit scholarship, it’s about $45,000. Note this doesn’t include cost of living, books, etc. Yes, U of SC will have lower cost of living than most, but even with merit scholarship–and I don’t see how you can count on that now–you’re still talking about $40,000 a year. </p>
<p>Maybe it’s easy to become a state resident in SC and qualify for in state rates. I haven’t a clue. But that rate isn’t all that cheap either. (See link).</p>
<p>It’s more than the cost of CUNY Law. [Tuition</a> & Fees - Admissions - CUNY School of Law<a href=“Yes,%20this%20is%20per%20semester,%20but%20double%20it%20and%20you’re%20lower%20than%20SC.”>/url</a> It’s about the same as the cost of SUNY Buffalo Law. [url=<a href=“http://law-school.findthebest.com/l/97/University-at-Buffalo-Law-School]University”>http://law-school.findthebest.com/l/97/University-at-Buffalo-Law-School]University</a> at Buffalo Law School,*SUNY - Ranking, LSAT, & Reviews](<a href=“http://www.law.cuny.edu/admissions/tuition.html]Tuition”>http://www.law.cuny.edu/admissions/tuition.html)</p>
<p>So why South Carolina if you live in NY? It’s not as if local law schools don’t give merit money. It’s not as if there aren’t lots of law schools that give merit money. And if you’re willing to go to a second tier law school to save $ I’d suggest going to one near where you ultimately want to practice. </p>
<p>There are other schools that have 6 year combined programs too. And now there are some 2 year law school programs too. (BTW, S C looks like false advertising to me because you can only count 9 law school credits towards your undergrad degree, and 9 credits is less than one semester.) </p>
<p>I have a youngish neighbor who went to Wharton. He joined ROTC to cover a big chunk of the cost. He then submatriculated to UPenn Law–Penn lets you count the first year of law school as your last year at one of its UG colleges, so he too got both degrees in 6 years. He convinced the navy to let him do JAG and so he didn’t have to go into the navy until he got his JD. During the summers he got JAG jobs, one of which was with one of the top NYC law firms. When he graduated he went into the navy and went to whatever its school for military law is called. He’s now out and working in JAG. He really likes it. For a kid who does have the stats, I think that was a better plan than yours. But I’m biased. I’d rather have a Whaton BS and UPenn law degree than one from SC and I don’t see spending 5 years in the military as JAG as a horrible deal. Some people do.</p>
<p>Again, you’re 16. You really don’t have to have all of this planned out now.</p>
<p>@jonri: Wow, that’s actually a really great suggestion! I wouldn’t say I’m exactly “Navy strong” at this point; however, maybe if I were to start training now I’d be fit enough to do NROTC too, and I suppose JAG later if I do decide to go into law! Thank you so much for the suggestion!</p>
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</p>
<p>Because you are young (and I assume naive), lemme help: </p>
<ul>
<li>20% of USC grads are unemployed – no job, no income</li>
<li>40% of USC grads do not report their employment salary</li>
</ul>
<p>The remaining 40%, who report their salaries, have a mean of $55k, with the quartiles at $39k and $60k. Of these, that breaks down to:</p>
<ul>
<li>20% have a mean of $60k</li>
<li>20% have a mean of 39k</li>
</ul>
<p>The school should be embarrassed for what they charge and the job results that their students receive.</p>
<p>Unless you are a SC resident, who want to live an practice in SC, and the school will pay you to attend, like all low-ranked law schools, this is a foolish consideration.</p>
<p>You’re still in hs, but were you a college student, the consensus is you need to be very, very careful about where you attend law school. And since you’ve got plenty of time, check out law school transparency and the law school scam blogs; these-particularly the blogs-vociferously argue it’s a bad idea to go to law school. Are they right? You’ve got plenty of time to decide that-but do some research.</p>
<p>Okay, thank you all!</p>
<p>Don’t go to USC for law school. Going there for undergrad is fine though.</p>
<p>With a USC law degree, you’ll be competing with tons of others for in-state jobs, and I wouldn’t expect that there would be many out-of-state jobs available. Probably every class has a handful who go to the big leagues of law firms in NYC and elsewhere, but not many.</p>
<p>I’d go to a top-10 law school, particularly one in the geographic area where you want to work (i.e., if you want to work in the Southeast, go to Duke (which should give you tons of options anywhere)).</p>
<p>Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School has one of the most comprehensive and rigorous Criminal Justice programs in the state of Georgia. In addition, our students often benefit from many of the professional relationships our faculty members have established. For example, Georgia Bureau of Investigation Director Vernon Keenan recently addressed the law school’s Advanced Evidence Class as a result of an invitation from Associate Professor Michael Mears. He discussed the operation of the GBI and gave the class a detailed description of the work the GBI Crime Laboratory does for law enforcement throughout the state. He then made himself available to the students for an extended question and answer session. The students were treated to an up close and personal look at the operation of the GBI as part of their continuing study of scientific evidence in criminal cases. His contribution to the student’s study of scientific evidence was invaluable and the entire class has been invited by Director Keenan to tour the GBI Crime Laboratory next month.</p>
<p>In 2011 Governor Nathan Deal re-appointed Vernon Keenan as Director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. As GBI Director, Vernon Keenan is the leader of a state criminal Investigative agency with over 820 positions including forensic scientists and special agents. The GBI is comprised of three divisions: the State Crime Laboratory, the Georgia Crime Information Center, and the Investigative Division.</p>
<p>^^JohnMarshallLaw;</p>
<p>would you care to comment on the schools ~35% job rate, i.e., after spending $200k+, and three years of their lives, less than 40% of your grads obtain a FT legal job requiring a JD?</p>
<p>USC is a great choice if you are planning to practice law in South Carolina. However, I believe SC has the highest number of lawyers per capita of any state (which accounts for high unemployment and low starting salaries). You will be seriously disadvantaged if you plan to practice in New York, and likely ill prepared for the NY bar exam. I agree with jonri that you would be better off at CUNY. Unless you attend a top school, go to a school in the state in which you intend to practice. And, avoid as much debt as possible! </p>
<p>Another option to consider is moving to Texas after college, working for a year or two (highly recommended) to establish residency and save money, and then applying to UT. UT is T15 with relatively (to its ranking) low tuition. Although it won’t beat the Ivies and NYU in NYC, it will give you a far better shot than USC. It will also give you more options than a regional tier 2 school. Plus, Austin is a great town!</p>
<p>The best advice I can give you is to find another career path while you are in college.</p>
<p>Its a tough situation with no perfect or ideal answer. You will get in, not just because the law school isn’t highly ranked but also because the number of law school applicants have decreased considerably in the past few years. Less known law schools are really short on student applicants and hence their acceptance rate has increased further. You will save money too as you’ve mentioned. But the “romance” ends there.
Once you graduate, you will need to sit for your state’s bar exam. If you haven’t been taught well, your chances of passing the bar are low. Even if you pass, and get licensed, the way the job market is for lawyers, your chances of getting hired will be even lower. The market is saturated with fresh law grads and hence the job outlook for lawyers in the next 10 years isn’t too rosy.
Sorry for sketching such a bleak picture, but this is a reality. </p>