Lsat

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>Hey,</p>

<p>As a frosh potentially interested in law, I signed up for a practice LSAT test (for tomorrow) to be administered by Kaplan so they can talk me into taking their course(s). At any rate, to get any idea of what the test would be like, I took the practice examination listed on the LSAC website under less than official times and ended up with a 171-I don't think any more time on each section would have really helped. The test didn't seem that difficult for me considering my familiarity with the SAT, although I was tricked by some of the passage questions with answer choices like: "its conclusion contradicts an implicit principle on which an earlier part of the argument is based" where I wasn't able to eliminate some of the other answer choices and couldn't discern what the "principle" was in the first place.</p>

<p>At any rate, I was wondering if this score is a good starting point and whether there is scope for improvement. Is the LSAT like the SAT in which practice makes perfect? Or, should I, if this practice administration reaffirms this practice test score, sign up for an upcoming test administration to capitalize on my test taking skills/familiarity.</p>

<p>I've not much knowledge about the test and the scoring implications and would appreciate any information. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>That is a great score from which to start and, yes, practice can definitely help you improve your score.</p>

<p>Some pointers:
1) I believe the sample LSAT posted on the LSAC website is either from October 1999 or October 2000. Regardless, the test has changed significantly since then. One change is that, as of recent administrations, the logic games are much easier; however, the reading comprehension is downright heinous, with highly technical passages and difficult questions. For some students, namely those accustomed to reading such passages, the change makes the test easier. For most test-takers, however, the reading comprehension is more time consuming, with even the best test-takers not finishing on time. The logical reasoning section (the one with the short arguments) is about the same level of difficulty, but as of recent administrations, there is now a stimulus for every single question (instead of, say, one stimulus for two questions. This modification makes the section more time-consuming, with many test-takers not finishing on time.
2) So with the games getting easier and the reading comprehension getting harder to compensate, one would expect the curve to stay the same. The problem is that the curve is downright dirty for recent tests, with ten incorrect questions being sufficient to take one out of a 170–this situation is in opposition to older tests, where 10 questions might have kept the student at a 175.
3) While I don't want to discourage you by arguing that the results of your test are meaningless; it is worth emphasizing that newer tests are a far better predictor of one's probable performance.
4) Now most argue that the newer tests are, on the whole, more difficult than the older ones; however, I think this notion is subjective. From personal experience, the older tests have been much harder, while the newer tests have been much easier. For example, I found myself getting 4-5 questions wrong per arguments section in the mid-90s administrations, but I now only get 1-2 wrong per arguments section. </p>

<p>Bottom line: take the newer test to see how your performance is. </p>

<p>Also, don't take Kaplan. They suck. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.testwell.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.testwell.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

3

<p>To piggy back on Nspeds post...</p>

<p>there will be a new administration of the lsat this june with changes in the reading comp and the essay (if you go to the lsac website you can down load a sample test for free).</p>

<p>Since you are a freshman, I would put the lsat on the back burner now and focus more on taking classes that interest you becasue:</p>

<p>With the new administration of the test, you still have time for a few test to be given to give you a better sense of the test (taking a practice right now isn't going to do much for your cause, because the test will be different)</p>

<p>Your lsat scores are only good for 5 years</p>

<p>when it does come time for you to apply for law schools, they will want to look at more recent scores (so don't spend the next 2 years worrying about it when you have time to do other things. You most likely will sit for the test until June of your junior year, 2009 so there will be more recent test you will be able to use to better prepare you).</p>

<p>there is a limit on the number of times you can take the lsat</p>

<p>then it, that's famous adage; life is what happens when you are busy making other plans (you never know how things are going to play out 3 years from now). It is one thing to have a plan, but remain flexible.</p>

4

<p>This is not to say you shouldn't take heart from your score, only that you should not use it to make decisions.</p>

<p>You should still be encouraged by a "cold" 171. It's just that you should rely on more reliable data when it comes time to decide how to use it.</p>

5

<p>Thank you, bluedevilmake. You expressed perfectly what I had been trying to say in a couple of paragraphs!</p>

6

<p>I think we are all on the same page- but especially take heart in what Sybbie said. The test is changing "dramatically" this June. As you are a freshman- I think it may be the prudent thing to wait until the newer version of the LSAT has been administered a few times until you really begin studying for the exam. Next winter/spring will give you more than ample time to prepare.<br>
As you started off with a "cold" 171, I doubt there is too much advice for me to add.</p>

7

<p>Thanks for all the advice. After my second test today, I'm definitely going to hold off on taking the test for a little while. I don't feel like I missed a single critical reading or logical reasoning question, but I easily missed 6-12 on the logic games section (I'll find out on Tuesday). </p>

<p>I think it will definitely help to learn the different logic game techniques and just have more practice in general so I can be ready for the changed LSAT. I didn't realize the difference in points was such a significant factor in terms of law school admission (i.e. a 175 vs. a 172).</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

8

<p>that is not as big as 172 vs. 169. that's the crucial area.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
I think it will definitely help to learn the different logic game techniques and just have more practice in general so I can be ready for the changed LSAT.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, the best thing to do would be to take every real logic games section in existence.</p>

<p>
[quote]
that is not as big as 172 vs. 169. that's the crucial area.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's correct.</p>

<p>The difference between a 172 and a 175 is only significant for Harvard, Stanford and Yale. The only difference the two scores make for, say, Columbia is probably one's standing for the Hamilton.</p>

10

<p>when is the best time to take the lsat..3rd year spring (june) or fall 4th year (oct)?</p>

11

<p>Jason- I'm gonna answer this as a mom and somewhat based on my d's perspective- D is now doing a study abroad in her junior year. She was initially leaning to take the exam Oct. her senior year. But decided against it because- she wouldn't have her results until late October and really wouldn't know what schools were appropriate to apply to until she had the results. (She didn't even want to think about LSAT's during her time abroad, so she ruled out the 6/07 LSAT.) She felt she would feel too rushed and "overwhelmed" by prepping for LSAT's through Oct. and then having to work on Law school applications right after.<br>
The reality is there is a BIG difference in schools you are going to apply to if you get a score a 162 vs.172.<br>
BUT-- a unique issue with this 6/07 test, is that it will be the first one administered with the new reading comprehension sections.<br>
My d made a quick decision to take the LSAT's before she did her study abroad. So she took it in December of her junior year. She did absolutely fine and was pleased with her results.<br>
I think the bottom line is- as long as you give yourself enough time to prep sufficiently (most people may think anytime in the 3 to 6 month range ??)<br>
you should do ok. You gotta study towards the test. The knowledge you gain having another semester of college under your belt, may not be that helpful.<br>
If you are planning to take the test this June- you better start prepping today as the 6/07 LSAT is only 3 months from now. This is just my opinion- I'm sure you'll hear from others on this topic.</p>

<p>And good luck (my fingers are crossed) to all the 2/07 test takers- I think the results are coming in any day now. Ain't it the longest 3 weeks of your life?? I know the time just crawled along until d got her results in December.</p>

12

<p>Hi Jason, </p>

<p>Another parent chiming in with their kid's perspective. Like Marny's D, my D is also a junior. She attends school on a quarter sytsem and did a study abroad this fall. While she was a way she decided to sit for the February test (results coming any day) because she was on a leave term and is at home. She felt it was the best situation for her as the June test is right on the heels of their final exams and the day after graduation . </p>

<p>Also like Marny's D she did not want to wait until the october test to test for the first time because she wanted to be in the postion to go into the application pool with her eyes wide open (as some schools start accepting applications in oct) and if she felt she needed to test again, the next exam is in december.</p>

<p>As it stands now, she will get her scores back in a couple of days, narrow down her list of reach, match and "safety" schools (if such a thing exist in law school). Also depending on how she scores she can still decide whether or not she wants to sit for another test (I am hoping that she will be one and done).</p>

13

<p>Thanks for your responses!</p>

<p>I'm a freshman right now at UCLA, and I'm pretty sure that I want to go to law school. But I'm going to be taking 1 or 2 years off after college, so that's why I was contemplating whether to take the LSAT late 3rd year or early 4th year. Is is feasible to study for the LSAT at the same time as your studies? (I will also be studying aborad my junior year)<br>
Btw, anybody know which months the LSAT is offered?
Thanks.</p>

14

<p>As a student who opted to take time before applying to law school, I actually took it June after 4th year. That seemed to work pretty well for me.</p>

15

<p>LSAT prep while doing course work to complete undergrad degree is no problem. As a matter of fact I don't know what testing you would use that precludes it. I guess you could state that course study ends in May and June testing would meet that standard. Apparently you haven't looked at the LSAT website to become familiar with the testing dates.</p>

16

<p>LSATs are offered in October (sometimes very very end of Sept.), December, February, and June. The June test is later in the day than the others.</p>

<p>I took the test in October, which had plusses and minuses. If you want to apply for the year right after, then it was a minus. I made the mistake of basing a lot of my research on solid, consistent practice score tests, and when I didn't actually score in the same range, I had to do a lot of last minute work that probably resulted in many more applications than was necessary. It would have been ideal to have gone into my research actually knowing what was and was not within my reach. The theoretical plus side was that the summer was available for study, I wasn't TOO overwhelmed by school or lack of sleep yet, and so forth. I think my other ideal would have been to take it the previous June (after 3rd year) so that I could've taken it at home, which would have alleviated a lot of stress, and without the burdens of school, academic stress, regular busy-ness, and so forth. It also would have left me with a lot more time to study leading right up to the test.</p>

<p>How much studying you can or want to fit in on top of regular coursework depends on you and your school. Unfortunately, despite choosing a schedule that I thought would be conducive to lots of study time, this really didn't work out for me. Sometimes there just aren't enough hours in the day and there's only so much you can do about it. You're the one who decides how much studying you want to do, and you're the one who knows how much free time you have. Without knowing those things, it's not possible for anyone else to tell you how manageable the situation will be, but in general, you should be fine. </p>

<p>If you want to take time off before law school, then I don't think it much matters when you take the test. Do it when you think you'll feel more comfortable. If your school ends late, then October might be nicer so you don't have to worry about finals, move-out, and so forth. If not, then maybe June will be convenient. I see very little difference between these two tests, except that June lets you sleep in a bit.</p>

<p>Keep this on your radar for now, as you are, but don't worry about it <em>too</em> much. It's too early. You're obviously in a great position going in to things, so relax and focus elsewhere for awhile. Good luck!</p>

<p>PS. I had a pretty poor experience with Kaplan, in the end, as did many of my classmates. Just my story.</p>