<p>Hi guys.
Lets say you get an M.Eng degree from a school like MIT/Cornell.
These are schools I want to consider because i"m afraid PhD is too competitive for me, and they don't have an MS-only program.</p>
<p>So if I get into an M.Eng program, is it possible to continue to PhD at that university or another?</p>
<p>They say M.Eng is a terminal degree... but if you can go from a bs to a phd with no ms, then I can't see why an M.Eng would be a <em>deterrant</em>.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>I don’t know that an M.Eng would be a deterrent, per se, but I would imagine it wouldn’t count much towards your Ph.D. if you did get in. You would probably be treated much closer to someone with only a B.S. than someone with an M.S.</p>
<p>“Why?” you ask?</p>
<p>It all comes down to research. A Ph.D. requires loads of research, and people with a traditional M.S. already have some research out of the way and don’t have to start from scratch. The vast majority of M.Eng. programs don’t involve research, and many of them don’t involve a thesis. I know MIT is an exception and still requires a thesis for M.Eng., but I don’t know if it involves research or not. You would have to look that up. You may be able to skip some courses coming in with an M.Eng., but you would still have to start from scratch on the research front.</p>
<p>If you think a Ph.D. is even a remote possibility, I don’t see why you don’t just get a research-based M.S. degree.</p>
<p>Also at some schools…especially the ones that offer both a MS/Thesis and MEng, the MEng has less required courses and in some cases allow a student to “tailor” their program the way that benefits them.</p>
<p>The MS with Thesis will have required courses that would count for a PHD. Remember, you can qualify to study for a PHD without having to have a MS degree so many MS/Thesis program will require some of the same courses as the PHD.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot guys.</p>
<p>By the way, what is the difference between computer science and computer engineering?</p>
<p>kidding!!</p>
<p>I do think the OP makes a good point. If a PhD program allows you to apply straight from undergraduate, why should not doing research in your MEng be looked at as a detriment to getting your PhD? </p>
<p>I’m guessing it may be that you weren’t interested in doing research for your graduate degree, so we only give spots to people that wanted to do research in the first place.</p>
<p>I would also guess that if you received your MEng, and then wanted to do a PhD years later, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue.</p>
<p>I also want to know about this. I recently heard from an engineer (who got his phD more than 10 years ago) that an MS thesis has no relevance or importance to a phD, and that you will learn more from the 2 extra classes (since most schools have a thesis acting as a substitute for 2 classes). Can anyone here verify if this is true or not?</p>
<p>As someone going through this right now, let me weigh in. I got my BSEE and then applied to both companies and PhD programs. I was accepted at both with good offers, but as an older student with a family I was unable to make the numbers line up for grad school (family of 4 on $20k?) and so went into industry. I got my MSEE (coursework-only, effectively and MEng) at a good school at night while working in my first three years, then applied to PhD programs.</p>
<p>In my experience, a masters thesis appears to be a selling point - several professors seemed to lament that I had not completed one, but it was obviously not crucial. I am not aware of any PhD programs that require a masters thesis, so it really serves three purposes - (1) a thesis usually requires more indepth knowledge and therefore a better education, (2) masters research serves as practice for doctoral research, and (3) both of these things look good to adcoms, so it helps with admissions.</p>
<p>And to contradict creepy’s source, I have had several professors tell me that the classes were a necessary step, but that you should take as few as possible and instead focus your time on research. In my own experience, those individuals I have known who completed a masters thesis demonstrated a superior level of knowledge compared to those who had a coursework-only masters.</p>
<p>Ok, that makes more sense as I thought doing the thesis would look better for phD admissions. If you got a job that let you work part-time, would you have done the MS with thesis? I’d imagine its hard to pull off when you have to work (and also take classes at the same time?) also</p>
<p>My concern is this:
If you go for a BS to an M. Eng with intent to pursue a PhD…
If you finish the M. Eng in 1 year, that makes you need to apply for the PhD program basically your first quarter into your M. Eng. How will you develop the faculty relationships for LOR’s at your new school in such a short amount of time?</p>
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<p>That is your first mistake. If you intend to do a PhD (or even if you aren’t sure yet), you should be doing a thesis.</p>
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<p>That is incredibly uncommon unless you are in one of the 4+1 BS/MS programs.</p>
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<p>You could potentially have that problem no matter how fast you finish a coursework-only degree. Professors who have only had a class with you can’t possibly write as powerful a letter as a professor who has seen you in a research setting.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that if you think a PhD is maybe in your future, you are really better off doing the thesis.</p>
<p>I think it is “possible” to do a MEng and then a PHD, but I think one has to:</p>
<p>1) Take as many “upper” grad courses as possible. I mean, I would try my best to make ALL 30 credits count to the PHD.</p>
<p>2) Have to find the right PHD-granting school who will accept someone without prior thesis/research work.</p>
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I tried to do a research masters, but none of the schools local to my work would allow me to do so on a part-time basis even if my schedule could accomodate it. Ironically, they would let me do a part-time PhD but my work refused to pay for it at that time. I still regret that I could not get a research option to work.</p>
<p>Ultimately, doing a coursework-only masters just gives you the extra courses. If you are lucky (or careful) they will count against your PhD (mine did), but that might not be a good thing - my research interest changed between programs, so I now have fewer courses to get ready for my quals. I didn’t have any masters research, so all of my research experience was either as an undergrad or at work - less than ideal, but thankfully I had research as an undergrad and at work, otherwise I would have been in a bind.</p>
<p>I would not recommend a coursework-only masters to anyone interested in a PhD, only to those whose primary interest was in gaining some additional knowledge or credentials for industry, and even then I would prefer the research degree.</p>
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<p>Oh I wouldn’t either. I was saying that there may be some school out there somewhere who take in someone with a coursework-only MS into their PHD program. If I were to guess, I would say that the number of those schools is very small.</p>
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<p>that doesn’t make any sense to me. As someone mentioned earlier, if you do research in your undergrad, and phD admissions accept those with just a BS, then why not those who only did the coursework-only MS? As with cosmicfish, there may be a situation where one can do the MS but is unable to do the thesis and MS research</p>
<p>The fact is that if you have a coursework-only masters, you are really hurting your chances at PhD admissions. You better have some sort of experience or indicator that you aren’t going to be a complete failure at research. In the case of cosmicfish, he had undergrad research. For someone who doesn’t have that and only has a coursework degree, they are going to have a really rough time.</p>
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<p>You just posted “if you do research in your undergrad”. That is at least some research. Most students are not doing much “research” as an undergrad, so if they went on to a coursework-only M.S., that means they have absolutely no research in their background. </p>
<p>As for undergrads going straight to the PHD program, I would like to know the number of B.S. students with NO research accepted into the PHD program.</p>
<p>Again, I am not saying it is not possible, but like some others pointed out, it would be hard.</p>
<p>To clarify - a coursework only masters does NOT hurt you for grad admissions!! The problem is that it might not help you at all either!</p>
<p>A research-based masters degree will potentially bolster your research experience, your GPA, and your LOR’s. A coursework-only masters can only boost your GPA - no research generally means no strong LOR’s. If your Achilles’ heel is your GPA, then this is an adequate fix. Otherwise… well, otherwise it probably does not help.</p>
<p>BUT, I have also not heard from a single school that indicated that it was a problem! The worst I heard from any program was that they would ignore it - no advanced standing, no transferred credits, I would start the program the same as if I had just gotten my BS. And, for what it’s worth, the only school that rejected me was MIT, and I knew that was highly unlikely to begin with (only reason I applied was that it was the only “reach” school in which I had any interest). I got in at UIUC and UT Austin.</p>
<p>oh ok, I misunderstood what you guys meant. I got the impression that even if you do research as an undergrad, then doing a coursework-only MS would hurt your phD admissions, but I see that is not the case. I didn’t know most engineering undergrads don’t do research (I had a non-engineering major).</p>
<p>I actually just heard today from another engineer that if you work and do the MS at the same time, then if your long term goal is to get a PhD, then doing the coursework-MS is better as you can just focus on the classes you will need for your qualifying exam. The work experience will replace the project you would have done for a MS thesis. The grad schools for your PhD program will be more impressed if you have taken a bunch of classes and mastered the material.</p>