Macalester vs Middlebury vs Wesleyan [foreign studies, economics, or chemistry, not pre-med, similar net price]

College Search & Selection
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DS22 -Undeclared major with interests in foreign studies, economics or maybe even chemistry. Is certain he does not want pre-med track. Likes smaller class sizes of LAC.

Initial search criteria was wide open so when he first narrowed it, one of the criteria was a big city. He does not like that there is nothing for him and his friends to do on the weekend except hang out at someone’s home or go out to eat where we live. He wouldn’t be able to eat out too much in a big city with his budget anyways, but it is nice to know there is stuff to see and do.

Unfortunately he was waitlisted at WashU and Rice. Macalester is his only remaining financially viable choice in a metropolis.

He has warmed up to Wes and Midd, despite locations, because they are great schools with a lot to offer in his interests. And he is not immune to rankings.

He has been a varsity athlete all 4 years in h.s. But chose to not continue in college (recruited by other d3 schools) but said he doesn’t want to do it at a college level. Would rather be a part of club/intramural, possibly in something new.

Even though we live in an outdoorsy/ski heavy(maybe an hour away) area, his sports have prevented him from doing outdoorsy stuff more than a few times but he is open to new things.

I’m concerned about the bro/narp thing I have read about. I’d rather he go to a school that is all inclusive and has less cliques (if that is possible).

All 3 COA are in the same range.

Any thoughts about all of this?

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Mac’s differentiator is that it is one of few preeminent urban liberal arts colleges - along with Barnard and Oxy. I chose Mac over Wesleyan and Amherst because of its urban location. Many are in the same boat. A Mac degree opens many doors to employment and graduate school. Having easy access to internships as a student bolsters career and research prospects. Poke around LinkedIn and you will see that all three schools have equally impressive and highly placed alumni. In general, I don’t recommend making a decision based on US News rankings.

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What are his sports? Small colleges do not tend to have club sports for those sports for which they have a varsity team…

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I love to tout Mac on CC but I’m going to point out that Wes is in a densely populated corner of the country - it isn’t in a city, but getting to Boston, New York, Providence, New Haven, and more is not too difficult, and there will be friends with cars (if not freshman year, then at some point), as well as activities that include travel to those places (club sports included, for example things like ultimate frisbee tournaments). Sorry for the run-on sentence. Middlebury is a great school but quite remote.

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The one he was being recruited for was xc&track. That he can do on his own or find a group. He just doesn’t want to out in the hours and distance of college level.
The other one is basketball- he was never going to be recruited for that. Good enough to make the team at a hs of 2100 and good defense but that’s about it. I think he would be interested in trying something new. They did not have boys volleyball here and he would like to play casually - like intramural. Maybe basketball, water polo - pretty much anything that isn’t as demanding as college varsity running.

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I live in NYC and while Wesleyan is much closer than Midd, there are no direct trains or buses to Middletown. Friends with kids at Wesleyan have complained that it’s an expensive Uber or taxi to New Haven to get the train or a bus if their kids want to come home on a non-break weekend. (I think Wes runs buses to NYC and Boston when there are breaks.) Ironically, it might be easier (albeit a lot longer) to get to NYC from Middlebury in the not-too-distant future when the Amtrak extension opens later this year. Also, Burlington, while not an urban city like NYC or Boston, is only about 45 minutes from Midd, and from what I understand, it’s not uncommon for students to head there on weekends for restaurants, shopping, concerts, etc.

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If important to him, most schools have info about clubs and intramural on the schools or team website. You can also ask in the individual fora for each school. There a lot of folks who know a lot about those three schools in particular in the school specific board. I see one of them now replying to your thread…hahaha. Hi @circuitrider!

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I was going to say the same thing, that Wes is probably the next most “urban” of the three choices available. Middletown’s Main Street is no slouch when it comes to places to eat out; it’s nearly a mile long and within walking distance of campus.

Academically, I would give Midd the edge in foreign studies, but before I did so I would also point out that Mac has a sizable international student population, and that Wes has a heavy area studies influence (it pioneered in the study of Ethnomusicology) that reaches across nearly all its departments.

Actually, it’s a 20-minute transit bus ride to the train station. IIRC, students have free passes for all over the surrounding area. They leave the Wesleyan campus pretty much on the hour. But, you’re right, unless you catch the one Amtrak train that runs daily, there is a layover in New Haven. that can add as much as an hour to a trip to NYC.

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Good to know, @circuitrider. I’m using this intel the next time my D’s home and wants to visit friends at Wes. We had a hard time finding an affordable transit option on a weekend and ended up driving them up – a good excuse to finally go to the Wadsworth Atheneum.

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Just make sure it’s not on a Sunday. That’s the only day of the week the Middletown Area Transit system (MAT) shuts down. `\ _ ()_/’

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Thanks for the helpful pros and cons.
I guess my biggest concern is with the bro culture at Middlebury. How much of a thing is it? Is he going to get picked on for being a narp?
How prevalent is it? I have seen things about it all over online.

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My freshman son is at Wesleyan and loves the small class size, the availability of the professors, and the academic mentorships and research opportunities he and his STEM friends have been offered. One reason he picked Wesleyan over the other NESCAC schools was because it felt less isolated/rural and had a larger and more diverse student population. He has yet to go to the city except to travel home on holidays. Next year several friends are bringing cars to campus so that will change.

He did not want to continue basketball in college, but joined the club rugby team and is loving this new sport. A lot of kids join the club frisbee team which was in California earlier this year for a championship tournament. With Covid, the music and theater scene was present but not as active or open on campus, hopefully that will change next year. His friends are very diverse with different sport and non athletic interests.

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Have you visited each of them? Here’s what I learned about SLACs that sort of surprised me, but maybe shouldn’t have, looking back on it: they have VERY specific vibes/cultures. It’s important to find one that feels like you can find your people–whatever that means to you.

My daughter loved Mac on paper (and was accepted with a large amount of merit) but when she got on campus, she didn’t connect with it. She knew within a couple of hours of the presentation, tour, and lunch in the cafeteria that it wasn’t a place she saw herself. On the flip side, Kenyon jumped ahead because she did like what she saw, despite its very remote location. (Ultimately, she is choosing a huge university in a large city–UCLA–but the takeaway for me is that SLACs vary in personality and it’s a good idea to get a read on that.) Another way to do that is to follow the accepted students Instagram, where you can see who your classmates will be, what they are into, etc.

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Middlebury is SUPER rural!! How many restaurants are there? 3, 4? And my litmus test, how many coffee shops can the small town support? I think there’s one at Middlebury.

I think Middlebury is gorgeous, and a fantastic school, but if your son wants to get away from rural, he should cross Middlebury off his list asap.

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The small eastern colleges have a difficult time not playing to their base which is essentially very well-off, connected and skewed toward men’s sports. When I first arrived on the CC scene about a dozen years ago, the atmosphere at one NESCAC was so toxic - frequent dorm damage, and binge drinking on the weekends, that the administration did a complete about-face and started recruiting a lot more First Gens and URMs just to mix things up a little. My impression is that Midd was never that bad.

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Thank you for the post. We are visiting Midd and Wes next week.

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Blockquote Middlebury is SUPER rural!! How many restaurants are there? 3, 4? And my litmus test, how many coffee shops can the small town support? I think there’s one at Middlebury.

Three or four?

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I have nothing bad to say about Mac, and it is somewhat known for it’s international studies. Mac is in a pleasant residential part of the city, and has about 4-5 colleges within a mile, and U of MN not much further. Campus is more contained, and less upscale than Midds, but is still decent. My son almost went there as an athlete- he really liked the baseball coach- but ultimately chose something completely different. I wouldn’t say that there is much, if any “bro” culture there. More of a PC/liberal culture, but in a passive, Minnesota Nice way.
Midd is really nice. We did notice a LAX Bro on our tour that really stuck out, but also a lot of smart kids. It certainly is nowhere near anything urban. S was in love with their gym.
Son was also recruited by Wesleyan. I didn’t mind it, but I am ok with towns that a bit rundown and working class. We spent the least amount of time there- I realize that S was already decided on another school by that time. He wanted Econ/Finance, and felt if he was going to do that he would go to Midd, as they have a rep as being a feeder for Wall Street.

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I live in a rural small town of 3,000 people spread out around 40 square miles. Middlebury is smaller!

Don’t get me wrong, I love small rural towns. But there is very little to do when you walk from campis into town. This, Middlebury’s mountain where kids can ski, etc, makes it very appealing to some people. And not to others. The OP said her son wanted urban. Middlebury is the polar opposite of urban.

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No, he won’t. It’s not high school, and the athletes at LACs like Middlebury aren’t high school jocks with self-image issues. Most athletes were very hard working students in high school, and they need to continue it at college. They generally are in majors like Econ, which is not an easy major.

Athletes often do keep in separate social groups, but that is because, with a heavy school work load, you need to limit your social activity, so they spend their time with people who have similar schedules, i.e., other athletes, especially teammates.

Yes, this does often breed a culture in which athletes and non-athletes look down on each other. However, from there to actual bullying is a long way, especially since there is zero tolerance in colleges like Middlebury for such behavior.

My daughter is definitely not an athlete (though she runs, hikes, and dances), and has yet to experience anything that seems like bullying from an athlete. Nor has anybody in any of her friend groups.

Bother Macalester and Wesleyan have the same proportion of athletes, and both have similar divides. Middlebury is neither unique, nor is it especially bad at Middlebury.

Don’t malign Middlebury - there are THREE coffeeshops AND a bakery with an espresso machine! And a TEA shop! THREE! AND a TEA SHOP!!

There are about a dozen restaurants in walking distance of campus. That is really not all that many, though, especially compared to what is accessible from Macalester.

And it is indeed pretty rural. It tells you something that Burlington starts feeling like a city, and my kid grew up in Chicagoland. On the other hand, my kid loves being able to look up and actually see the Milky Way at night.

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