Macaulay Honors at CCNY vs Cooper Union

Alright guys, I’ve been spending the better part of a month weighing the options so I decided to make a CC account for the sole purpose of asking you guys.
So I decided I want to be an engineer and go to school in the City, and was accepted to Columbia, NYU poly, Cooper, and MAcaulay at CCNY (full tuition + 1 yr dorm). Both Columbia and NYU gave so little aid that they are not comparable to Cooper (which was free but now costs 20k/yr + dorms)
Any thoughts? When I went to City, it seemed like if you “got in” with the professors and the research programs that is an awesome undergrad school, but that a very small % of students “get in” to this track. I enjoyed my visits and saw several projects, but many people call it a glorified community college. I did not see that, can you guys explain?
Cooper would require me to take out quite substantial loans, especially because it is a far commute, but I absolutely love the campus and the environment. A lot of students say the school has lost its special atmosphere after they started charging tuition, but they are currently being sued and the AG is investigating.

Anyway, I plan on going to grad school anyway, and I have 2 main questions

  1. Does ccny open up decent internship positions and grad school placement
  2. Is there anything special about cooper that makes it 20+k/yr better?
    Thanks

Right, but how many CCNY students also got admitted to Columbia, Cooper Union, and NYU? You’ve already distinguished yourself as a high-achieving student. Assuming this trend continues at CCNY, why wouldn’t you be one of that “small %”? It seems to me that if you want to make the most of the opportunities at CCNY, and you make a point of establishing relationships with the prof’s there, you’d be able to.

Don’t know enough about the school to say much about the “glorified community college” comment . . . but I suspect that the students who feel that way have also put “community college” effort into their studies there. You get out of any school only what you put into it!

Since Columbia meets 100% need, I’m assuming your parents have a decent income for you to get very little aid. What’s their budget?

I found this true with many other of my friends, where what fasfa says is reasonable to pay is not at all reasonable for us to pay. They have some money to contribute, but the main contribution will be a savings account which is about 40, so Cooper would put me in quite a bit of debt

You can only borrow the federal loans on your own ($5,500 freshman year, $6,500 sophomore year, $7,500 junior and senior years), so anything beyond that total of $27,000 will require co-signers or that your parents borrow. Find out from them how much they can pay each year.

$40k + $27k = $67k so if Cooper is $20k each year for four years, then you are short $13k. You and your parents might be able to come up with that.

Hi, I find myself in a similar situation (However my situation is a bit different as I may want to also be premed). After being accepted to ten schools, I pretty much boiled it down to 4 schools: Macaulay at CCNY, Cooper Union, Cornell and University of Toronto. Ignoring the latter two for the purpose of this conversation, I have heard many conflicting things about the Macaulay program. Some say it’s very good, while others says that you will have illiterate people in your classes. I have not yet visited CCNY, but I emailed them about visiting a class for Macaulay and the person I have been emailing so far has yet to be of any use. What I really wonder is if a Macaulay education any different from a regular CCNY education? (aren’t most of your classes regular CCNY classes) As a side note, If you want a school that is globally recognized for engineering, Cooper is probably better. So far none of my Canadian friends or relatives even knew what Macaulay was, let alone the CUNY system. Although Cooper Union is expensive, the cost does not compare to an ivy like Columbia or Cornell. I have visited Cooper Union and I emailed them about visiting a class and so far they have been much more helpful. If you are smart (which you are if you got into these schools) and determined you can find research opportunities at both schools. Cooper Union, however, being a much smaller school (freshman engineering class around 130 people) is easier to get research opportunities and get closer to the professors if the community of students is so small. Macaulay, however, is also a small group a students in a larger school. Though these students will have many different focuses. Aside from being free, getting a laptop, priority class booking, consoling…I still don’t see much being said about the exact quality of the education. I am not doubting the education, but it seems that Macaulay has become some sort of gimmick.
Please feel free to comment or correct any misconception, Thanks

It doesn’t boil down to “what is cheapest” but “what can you afford and what is the best value for that amount?”

Macaulay isn’t a gimmick. But the CUNY bureaucracy is something to behold and that even Macaulay scholars don’t get to bypass. It’s a public university and not much of the funding goes to support positions, so there aren’t enough staff: get used to not getting answers, getting the run around, etc. If your choice is a free education vs. loans, you put up with it. If you can afford something that won’t be so irritating at times, you think about the choice you get to have.

I attended CCNY over 25 years ago, so my information might be a bit dated, but their Engineering School is well respected throughout the Tri-State Area. There is also a very large alumni network in that area. I did my undergraduate degree at their Engineering School and graduated in four years (no summers…had to work). I was recruited by one of, if not the top, R & D Company at the time and that company sent me and many others new graduates off to do their graduate degree with their One-Year-On-Campus Program (all-expense paid+stipend). I applied three to only the top five graduate schools for my Engineering field (the Company picked the five schools). I was accepted into 2 out of the 3 programs (University of California - Berkeley and University of Michigan). I finish the program in 10 months, with pretty much all As and return to the company to continue employment. Believe it or not, I have had Company Representatives approach me to seek employment with their company, based soly on the recommendation from some of my Professors. When you have excellent grades, they will seek you out, as oppose to the other way around. I had multiple job offers when I graduated from CCNY, but chose the R&D organization because of the chance to attend Grad School free of cost, plus, it was just a great company to work for at the time.

While at CCNY, I got a Research Scholarship with one of my Professors in my senior year and worked at one of the local Utility Company in the Summer between my Junior and Senior year. The biggest challenge during my first year at CCNY (apart from having very little money) was getting into certain courses, especially during my Freshman Year. If you get priority registration (a plus for Macaulay Honors), your life at CCNY will be a lot easier and allow you to complete your degree quickly. Back when I attend, the competition for Chemistry I & 2, Physicas I & II, Modern Physics, Computer Science and a large number of the General Education Classes were fierce. We did not have computerize registration in those days, so it was PITA to navigate the registration process. Apart from registration, I did not experience any type of bureaucracy at CCNY. Financial Aid Office can be a bit tough, due to the shear number of students that attempt to access that office at peak periods (start of the semester).

The Engineering School was probably over 80% Foreign Students (people born outside the US), which prepared me well for my interactions with Graduate School Students, which was close to 100% International Students. If you are not comfortable in an environment with a high number of Foreign students, don’t go to CCNY! The location of the School can be a turn off for many, but the fairly new Grove Engineering building is a plus. They have since added a few new programs to the Engineering School since I attended (e.g, Computer Engineering, etc.). Also, given the cost of CCNY, compare to the other Schools on your list, CCNY is a bargain by many factors of magnitude! I was able to graduate with little or no debt, since I was very adept at scrounging for scholarships and grants as an independent student.

If you did any type of AP Calculus Courses in High School, CCNY had (I don’t know if it is still available) an Accelerated Calculus series, where you did Calculus 7 & 8, instead of the typical Calculus I, II and III. This option was determined by your Math Score on their Entrance Exam and this allows you to complete your Degree in four years (back then we were required to complete 136 credits to graduate with an Engineering Degree).

The point of my long post is to demonstrate that getting an Engineering Degree from CCNY will allow you to get into any of the top Graduate Engineering programs in the Country, give you access to Internships and Research opportunities. It is totally up to you and the grades you achieved while at the school. Some of my peers that graduated the CCNY Engineering School with me and was employed by the same R & D Company, went on to Georgia Tech, Columbia, Stanford, Berkeley and a few other Top Engineering Schools.

I think Columbia and Cooper Union a great Engineering Schools if you can afford to attend. In IMHO, Cooper Union is just too small a school, with limited social interaction with students across multiple disciplines. Frankly, if you intend to go on to one of the top Graduate Engineering School, any of the schools listed, will suffice. The key here is getting exceptional grades, which will open many doors going forward.

BTW, I made an attempt to transfer to Columbia University during my Freshman Year, but was talked out of it my one of the Professors that I sought a recommendation from. It was his opinion that I can get an excellent Engineering Education at CCNY and that the Engineering School well respected. I couldn’t afford Columbia any way, but would have gone there if I could (I loved their campus). :slight_smile:

@girl456123 Are you going to the admitted students event on Thursday?
Yeah that’s my concern too is that some people say Macaulay’s perks kinda distract from the truth, but some people love it. Its hard because We have to gamble on the job market and based on what we see after only spending a few hours at each school and what we read.
I am planning on going into electrical engineering.
I also read an interesting study about the benefits about being top of the class at a lower tier school, this seems to coincide with @Psata82 's perspective.
Can anyone with experience watch/comment on this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEwbRWFZVc&t=31

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How much would it cost per year to attend Cooper Union? It looks like it will be close to $40K per year when Room & Board and other cost are factored into the equation. Are you getting any type of FA from Cooper Union?

What would be your commuting time/miles from your home to CCNY and Cooper Union? If you elect to go to CCNY, are you planning on living on campus after your [free] first year or commuting?

Its roughly 1h15 from my house to either (depending on if I get an express train and whatnot)
Because of this, and the intensity, and the intensity of the program, I would much rather dorm and go home on weekends, if at all. At either school I want to dorm first year and decide what is better after
Cooper would Cost 30k/yr including dorms and rough estimates for food, books, etc. I am waiting to hear from a few scholarships but I would have between 40 and 60k in loans. My brother will be going to college in 2 years so that would probably increase my financial aid at Cooper.

At CCNY, If I dorm there for the remaining 3 years I would still have a very small amount of money left over

I would try to becoem an RA at either school