<p>C'mon people... Do you really think that the admissions committees across the country don't understand that certain majors take more effort than others? Is a 4.0 in linguistics really comparable to a 4.0 in mechanical engineering? Do people really think that the people in admissions forget about the difficultly of a course/major? I mean, do you think that the top 20 undergraduate colleges will admit people with a 4.0 in the most basic courses imaginable, or would they take people who took more difficult courses (AP/IB high level) and managed to also get the under-weighted 4.0?</p>
<p>The idea that major doesn't matter is ridiculous. A 2.4 in engineering vs a 4.0 in economics is probably significant, but face it, a 4.0 in both isn't exactly a difference that a committee is required for. Admissions people aren't stupid and they understand what goes into each major based on what college you're at.</p>
<p>So please, try to do well at something that's challenging... It shows you have an ability to succeed. Otherwise, you'll be a "pre-med" major that ended up doing something completely different. And believe me, there's nothing more pathetic than a pre-med major who's not a doctor.</p>
<p>Adcoms know that engineering takes more effort than linguistics. There’s just no data that shows it matters.</p>
<p>If you look at the data and the studies, they show:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>MCAT scores are virtually identical across majors. A 3.6 GPA English major getting admitted to med school has the same MCAT score as a 3.6 science major.</p></li>
<li><p>Medical school performances are virtually identical with some data suggesting that non-science majors may perform better in the 3rd and 4th years of med school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So what if a 4.0 in engineering requires more effort than a 4.0 in English? It doesn’t lead to high MCAT scores. It doesn’t lead to higher USMLE scores. It doesn’t lead to better medical school performance. And it doesn’t lead to better physicians. Medical schools would much rather take an interesting English major who used his free time to do EC’s than an engineering major who didn’t have any free time. There’s no metric where science majors outperform non-science majors.</p>
<p>Biological Sciences 52.2% of applicants, 51.2% of matriculants
Humanities 4.5% of applicants, 5.3% of matriculants
math/stats 0.9% of applicants, 0.98% of matriculants
“Other” 16.9% of applicants, 16.4% of matriculants
physical sciences 10.9% of applicants, 11.8% of matriculants
social science 11.7% of applicants, 12.1% of matriculants
specialized health sciences 2.76% of applicants, 2.2% of matriculants</p>
<p>Those numbers are for all intents and purposes IDENTICAL, and I can guarantee you that there’s no trend towards significance in that data. Individual schools may preferences one way or another towards a particular type of major, but on the macro level, there’s just no evidence to support that majoring in a particular field gives you an advantage in med school admissions.</p>
<p>I know people with Music major from very selective conservatory of music, Latin major and others completely unrelated majors being successful applying and actually going to Med. School. According to the list of M1’s (included UG name and major/minor at D’s White Coat ceremony before she started, the statement “The idea that major doesn’t matter is ridiculous.” is NOT correct, it is NOT ridiculous at all. So, I would say, please, go ahead and choose whatever you want. And think that GPA=2.4 in engineering is good enough is NOT correct either, it is not enough and it is waste of time to get 2.4 in college no matter if plan includes Med. School or not. While engineering is the hardest major, it does not reguire being genius either, it reguires hard work.</p>
<p>What? I had a debate coach warn us to beware of getting “carried away” when on a rhetorical roll. How’s this for a “metric”; total matriculants. As for your “data”, is this not just the end result of several layers of selection bias?</p>
<p>^Well, then listen to your coach, you did not waste time, apply knowledge to yourself first, then to others . total matriculats depend on total applied, correct? Any number does not mean anything when taking out of contest. i do not support any view, I never cared, just wanted to point out to some discrpencies in logic.<br>
And who should care about this statistics? NOBODY. if one is in major that he enjoys, he will be successful. Nobody is prevented from taking as many science/Bio/math classes as they wish. Again, nobody gets punished for taking longer in UG, either. So, stay for 7 years if you wish, have 4 majors if your heart desires so. One of D’s friend graduated with triple major, 2 of them had nothing to do with medicine/science. She did it in 4 years, though, had no trouble getting into Med. School either. My D. had Music Minor, it has lowered her GPA by .02 points exactly. Does she have regrets? Nope, enjoyed it immensely and continue to pursue her music interest while at Med. School.</p>
<p>Do anything that enhances your own life and do not think of others and their experiences, they have their own life and interests. At the end, this is the only right strategy. from experience of one who has changed her career in mid. 30s. It was just too merable to be where I did not belong. Do not be like this, it is your life, got to enjoy what you do.</p>
<p>While I fully agree that “There’s no metric where science majors outperform non-science majors,” I guess there are at least two things at play here:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Likely a higher percentage of non-science majors who (dare to) apply to medical school are very top performers in their majors, not only in academics, but also in soft factors like “personal characteristics or even personal charisma (sp?)” Heck, one residency applicant even said recently that the more prestigious programs he interviewed at, the better looking the applicants appear to be."</p></li>
<li><p>Medical school education is not all about sciences. (Maybe the non-MD-program part of medical school, e.g., their neuroscience department, immuno department, etc., is all about applied sciences. But the education of MD program is about learning how to be a well-rounded practising doctor. – Not long ago, being considered “in the trade.”) It is about good learners (not necessarily learning sciences exclusively – that is for a science PhD track student.) Actually, I heard the grades from the more science oriented years (preclinical years) do not count much (other than reflected in the STEP-1 scores.) The ball game in the more important years do not favor science majors. BDM once said the public speaking skill is THE most crucial skill in those years. Those who try to get elected as the class president or other kind of leaders, more likely a political science or social science or even linguistic major, and who have the skills to connect to many people of different traits, are rarely science majors (who tend to curl up in the lab day and night, rather than to go out and meet and interact with a variety of people – this skill is very useful as a future doctor, IMO.)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Riddle me this…why do students from MIT, arguably the top science-tech school in the world, have to have higher that average gpa’s for med admission?</p>
<p>^Both asians and Berkeley are beating representation of any other group/college at D’s Med. School? Why? Because, many more applied with higher stats from both groups. this is the only reason. there is no other bias or whatever, especially that D’s school is very far from CA and asians are ORM, yes, they still beat all odds because of their hard work getting those high stats and nothing else.
Forget the game of majors/UG prestige,…etc. It is proven over and over again, high stats, EC’s and outgoing personality (not always needed, but should be able to connect OK to others) will get you in and NOTHING else.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, If the whole paragraph is read, including “have 4 majors if your heart desires so”, what you wrote is correct. If somebody takes more years, say 6 years, in UG but does not achieve much more either in the classroom or out of the classroom, academically or ECs or personal development (like Steve Jobs trying to find his soul overseas while he was supposed to study at Reed or other LAC? LOL), then he or she may run the risk of being considered as someone who “games the system”, i.e., taking lighter load than the competitors in order to get higher grades. This is a big no-no. (Some said they may give some engineering majors a little bit break in terms of the length of study years – if they go to a very top engineering school, but not much. And engineering majors may have some explanation to do about why they quit from the engineering path after so many years, unless they apply to top research schools where they may be able to make use of the engineering skills, e.g., Matlab which is the defacto tool for many engineering majors, in their more research oriented environment.)</p>
<p>My son majored in linguistics and religious studies (with a chem minor) and it certainly didn’t hurt his admissions process. In fact he felt it helped and he heard that from more than one interviewer at more than a few schools.</p>
<p>There’s more science majors because more science majors apply. The actual acceptance rate is equal across all majors. Hardly a victory for science majors.</p>
<p>As for selection bias, what makes you think there is selection bias? Are we truly seeing the cream of the crop of humanities majors vs. the dregs of biology majors? It’s not like the humanities majors going into med school are all 4.0 superstars. The average GPA of humanities matriculants to med school is about the same as the average GPA of science major matriculants…about a 3.6. In med school, these 3.6 GPA humanities majors are performing as well if not better than the 3.6 GPA biology and engineering majors. Engineering majors have a hard time believe that all of the pre-professional/vocational junk they learned in undergrad engineering is irrelevant for medicine. They think they have superior analytical skills that would benefit them as a clinician. Their skills are vocational and benefit them in the realm of engineering. But, when it comes to clinical reasoning, there’s no data at all that shows science majors make better clinicians than humanities majors. The only “selection” that humanities majors undergo is the same as the selection that science majors undergo, namely having to take intro bio, orgo, physics, and gen chem. You don’t need a 600 level engineering course to succeed as a physician.</p>
<p>There’s no reason to take a science major over a humanities major of equal qualifications. On the other hand, there are several reasons to take the humanities major: to increase diversity in medical school, because they tend to be more interesting (from my experience and from the opinion expressed by several adcoms), and perhaps they have better EC’s or communication skills (although that’s conjecture and hard to prove). I think we’ve all interacted with enough engineers to get a sense of their communication skills to form our own opinions ;)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Well first of all, there’s no excuse to get a low GPA in engineering. No one forced you to major in engineering, so you should only major in that if you like it. And if you like engineering, you should be more willing to study and work hard to get a good GPA in engineering.</p></li>
<li><p>The BCPM GPA (GPA from all your biology, chemistry, physics, and math classes) is calculated by medical schools, and it is used to level the playing field. Some schools consider this Science GPA to be more important than the regular GPA (even though that has to be good too). So it doesn’t matter if theater majors get straight A’s in their classes because they still have to do good in bio, orgo, physics, etc.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Knack what you are forgetting is that the mechanical engineer student will probably do terrible in linguistics.</p>
<p>With the exception of the academic schools (Harvard, Stanford, etc) many medical schools are now “liking” the non traditional major – especially if the school is strong on primary care.</p>
<p>“Knack what you are forgetting is that the mechanical engineer student will probably do terrible in linguistics.”</p>
<p>-Not at all. One skill does not eliminate another. Yes, it is just a skill, nothing else, not much genius is required in UG. Work hard and you will get your A in any major in any class, even if you have never sang and now have to sing in duets with kids possessing awesome voices that have had voice coaches. Skill can be develped, at UG that all it takes. If one is too lazy to write a paper, do not blame it on being “terrible in linguistics”.</p>
<p>Miami, I think that’s a good point if (and only if) one also has the motivation to do well in “any major in any class” and those classes are equal (in terms of “other factors”) on all other levels.</p>
<p>It’s pretty hard to be motivated to study your butt off to develop skills you previously didn’t have in order to get an A in a class that doesn’t matter. Heck it’s hard enough to do that for a class that you do like and does matter (which isn’t to say all classes are “that hard,” but some certainly are). You may disagree, but I don’t think a lack of motivation to diligently study every single course that one decides to take exposes some major character flaw or something. I think it’s just a reflection on the fact that people (and students) have different interests, still sets, study habits, and motivators which often set them up to be students like Princess’Dad mentioned–great at one thing, not so hot at the other.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s accurate to say “work harder and you’ll get an A in anything” because there are quite a few more factors at play than just one’s effort when determining what a grade is. The teaching style, the evaluations method, the professor’s personality and opinion of you as a student, outside factors like the student’s other classes or commitments, heck even the time of the day the class is held or the book that is used can all contribute to one’s success in the classroom, and many of those factors cannot be overcome by “work harder.” Sometimes it’s just not in the cards!</p>
<p>I doubt you’ll find many students with the motivation to achieve greatness in every single class, and I doubt you’ll find many classes that differ solely in their content. </p>
<p>The main point I’m trying to make is this: a lot more than one’s effort/work goes into getting a good grade in a class, and two of those elements are motivation and “other factors.”</p>
<p>Come on Miami,
You are going against years of aptitude testing. Some kids “see” math and some don’t. Left sided and Right sided Brain function. Right sided kids can work their a…es off in math and often still don’t “get it”. Other kids and see music in their head and write it without playing it.</p>
- I do wish that CC offered a “Like” button.</p>