<p>cpt--
I think that was sort of my point (?)
The quote in question implied that a family making $100 K is affluent. I disagreed. There are just too many factors to figure in, even aside from cost of living and mortgage payments.</p>
<p>"The issue here is that different people have different lifestyles and different definitions of "comfortable.""</p>
<p>Well, you mentioned a four-bedroom home and two cars. That's actually hard to do in many places on $100K without a lot of debt. Take a look at the book: The Millionaire Next Door. A lot of the people that you see that appear to be wealthy with a luxury image are really on borrowed time. Maybe the mortgage bubble popping has brought them to reality a little sooner.</p>
<p>"The majority of my town would feel like they won the lottery on 100k"</p>
<p>Perhaps. But what happens to a lot of lottery winners? 8</a> lottery winners who lost their millions - MSN Money</p>
<p>My wife grew up in a single-family household in a third-world country. Our house is very modest in the middle-class town that we live in. Two-bedrooms surrounded by two highways and the road connecting them. During a power outage, we get light from the Turnpike lights as they're on a different circuit. But the place is paid off. We had a real estate implosion here back in the late 1980s and early 1990s and lots of people lost their jobs, marriages and houses.</p>
<p>One of the luxury status symbols of the rich is the automobile - say a BMW or a Mercedes. Do you think that you could afford one of these cars in a household making $100K? How about two of them?</p>
<p>It had to happen sometime. So many super-sized McMansions slapped up on too-small lots. Rarely see any new construction of average/normal size. And who is going to want to heat those extra bedrooms, sky-high ceilings and grand entrance halls?</p>
<p>BCEagle, I think you have me confused with another poster. My family is lucky to live more than comfortably on less than 100k a year, albeit in a cheaper area of the NE. But I've also lived on an island where fruits and vegetables cost more than seafood (since they had to be flown in) and we still scraped by on $13k a year. Not comfortably by any means, but we managed it for five years and as a child I didn't feel deprived despite not having private lessons, new clothes, etc.</p>
<p>Also, I would differentiate between "comfortable" and "affluent."</p>
<p>"And who is going to want to heat those extra bedrooms, sky-high ceilings and grand entrance halls?"</p>
<p>Winter will be interesting in New England this year.</p>
<p>You are correct - the poster on the four bedroom was TchaikovskyPiano. Sorry.</p>
<p>As a dad, I worry about a lot of things so that the rest of the household doesn't worry about. There are many times when comfortable for everyone else wasn't comfortable for me as I was aware of the stream of expenses over time. I grew up in a single-parent minority household and did feel deprived as our income was much lower than those of the community. My mother thought about giving us up for adoption at one point because things were so difficult. How you feel can often be a function of what is around you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So we're at $93,000 in expenses with nothing really fancy unless you consider cable and internet access fancy.</p>
<p>If you want to consider eating out, going to the movies, taking an extended vacation or several smaller ones, clothes and school supplies for the kid, maybe a health-club membership, it would be pretty easy to eat up the rest of the annual income.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>$100K may not necessarily be "affluent" in some areas, but unless you can show me that the majority of places in this country have living costs as high as you cite, I don't think you can really argue that $100K would prevent anyone from living comfortably. Maybe the higher-paying jobs tend to be clustered around areas with high living costs, but your assessment doesn't seem to reflect the circumstances for the majority of families living on $100K. </p>
<p>In any event, at least with $100K you still have something left over. Even though they might not believe it, people can easily survive without vacations (in fact, I don't think I've traveled anywhere in over a decade), high-speed internet, cable tv, and health club memberships. With the exception of maybe internet, for jobs and research, all of these things are luxuries, usually not required for comfortable living. </p>
<p>I'll stop complaining, though. I'm actually pretty satisfied in terms of the stuff I have (laptop, cell phone, and a piano of course), I just get annoyed when my "rich" friends complain about being poor. I've earned enough money this summer to pay off my tuition and the bulk of my parents' bills. Things are actually improving around here.</p>
<p>I might also just be naive. My parents tend to shield me from these things, and I never felt that deprived growing up because they spoiled me anyway. Only about a year ago was I able to look at their finances. It was a little frightening, and I was angry that they never told me anything about it or that I never even noticed the hardships they had to go through.</p>
<p>I'd also like to take back some of the things I said. I must've gotten caught up in the moment as this is a bit of a personal issue for me. I need to change my attitudes on things like this.</p>
<p>"I'd also like to take back some of the things I said. I must've gotten caught up in the moment as this is a bit of a personal issue for me. I need to change my attitudes on things like this."</p>
<p>Now that's a refreshing quote! Nice, Tchaikovsky - I know plenty of grownups (myself included) who could take a lesson from that :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do you think that you could afford one of these cars in a household making $100K? How about two of them?
[/quote]
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<p>When the discussion gets to whether or not you can afford one or two luxury cars on a given income, we've definitely moved out of the realm of "comfortable.''</p>
<p>(And as an aside, I definitely put aside enough money a year that I could afford one or two of those on that income, but why would I want to?)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Zoosermom--really? I've heard of public schools with polo shirts and khakis, but never with dress shirts and jackets. Seems it would be fairly hard on the typical city kid (whose income is probably a fraction of 100K).
[/quote]
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<p>Yes, that's why I was careful to put "schools/programs" because some charter schools (which are public and free) require the jacket and tie, as do some programs in regular public schools. They are all programs that require attendees to choose to be there, though, if that makes any sense.</p>
<p>^that does make sense, but if it acts as a barrier to low income kids choosing, it would be sad.</p>
<p>I'm wondering if they have programs to help them afford the jackets and upkeep. If not, it seems like that would really be a barrier.</p>
<p>OK, I'll bite. We're at the low end of the 100k bracket, and I do feel affluent. </p>
<p>I don't feel cheated because S doesn't qualify for need-based aid at the private LAC he chose to attend, and is working during the school year and summer and taking out loans to help to pay for. I feel really lucky to have good health care that even pays for a health club membership. I feel lucky to have finally gotten my dream car -- a new Bug after not having a new car for about 16 years. I feel lucky that we can go on vacation and can afford to have dental care. </p>
<p>I feel lucky to be able to take a course at our local community college for fun and to be able to afford to volunteer and donate to my favorite charities. I feel lucky that we have gone on two family vacations this year. </p>
<p>While it does pinch or budget, I am actually pleased that S doesn't qualify for need-based aid. I went to college on need-based aid as did H, and I always wished that my kids wouldn't go to college on need-based aid. Some people look for ways of beating the system. I'm actually happy that -- so to speak -- the system has beaten me. I always wanted to be one of those kids who wasn't on need-based aid, and I'm glad that S is in that category.</p>
<p>I also wanted to be one of those college students who got to go some place beside home for summer vacation and spring break. S has gotten to do that.</p>
<p>I have friends who make more than double our income and do live in Mcmansions and have luxury cars. One lives in one of the country's most expensive counties and has a house that overlooks the Pacific. She complains that her amazing house isn't as good as that of one of her friends who lives in Beverly Hills or some place similar, is married to a multimillionaire Hollywood star, and was in Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.</p>
<p>We did consider the financial impact of where S applied to school. He knew getting some merit aid would be important if he wanted to go to an expensive LAC. His financial safety was a public institution that he would have gotten full tuition and even been able to commute from home. </p>
<p>I know people who are poor. In fact some of my friends are poor. I don't envy the fact that their kids can qualify for more need-based aid for college. I know that there are things in my life that I take for granted that would be luxuries for them. For instance, I can afford to have a crown or root canal. I don't have to have salvageable teeth pulled because I can't afford to treat them. I don't have to virtually shake out my purse to pay the bill when I go grocery shopping. </p>
<p>Life is good....</p>
<p>"Seems it would be fairly hard on the typical city kid (whose income is probably a fraction of 100K)."</p>
<p>Actually, I've noticed that often students who are poor have more expensive clothes than do students who are well off. Where I live, for instance, lots of the lawyers and college professors families shop at Goodwill. </p>
<p>The idea of having students wear button down shirts and jackets is to help them feel comfortable in professional attire, and to also help them dress differently than the students wearing gang banger attire, which does cost a lot of money.</p>
<p>Paying for and maintaining the professional attire costs less than designer clothes and bling.</p>
<p>NSM...well said!!</p>
<p>I am the most grateful person in the world that we've finally reached the point that we have. I don't feel affluent, though, because what we do have is built on holding three jobs and a lot of overtime. That's pretty precarious so we do live below our means as a result, and we saved for two decades to buy a normal, middle-class house with 20% down and a fixed-rate mortgage, only to find specific circumstances in our specific neighborhood cause us to lose every penny of equity and more within the first year. As was said before, everyone's circumstance is different and the bottom line (to return to the beginning of the thread) is to consider each individual circumstance ahead of time in choosing a college. I'm grateful that hubby and I are able to work so hard to make better for our kids, but I wouldn't call our white trash family affluent or upperclass.</p>
<p>NSM--I am total agreement with your first post on income. I love your point of view.</p>
<p>As to the second--I understand the arguments for uniforms, but most schools require something much more modest. If a jacket needs dry cleaning, that could be a dealbreaker.</p>
<p>My college students come from very poor backgrounds. Many are immigrants. Very, very few, when they were in HS, would have been choosing between "bling" and drycleaned jackets. both would have been far outside of their family incomes, and the first was not part of their aspirations. I hate to see all inner city kids painted with the same brush.</p>
<p>Where we live, $80k/year qualifies one for subsidized housing assistance...I feel fortunate that we will be able to pay for S's college expenses (though he is contributing a good bit and our part won't be without pain), but the reason we can is that we have lived below our means for the past 25 years.</p>
<p>Though $100-150K is affluent, a family who makes that kind of money who lives in a neighborhood with good schools, decent cars, amenities, is going to have a stretch to pay full freight for 2-3 kids at private colleges.</p>
<ul>
<li>Totally agree. More so, with this income and paid mortgage and 1 kid in college (paying under $7000 in total cost because of Merit $$), dining out very few times a year, living in one of the cheapest areas of the country, going shopping only out of great necessity,.... it is still just barely making it because of high cost of everything else (transportation, groceries, ..etc.).<br>
I talked to somebody with 3 kids in college - kids are having loans - this is the only way that I can imagine. Another family with 3 kids and father an MD has sent them to local college on Merit $$ and have kids living at home to avoid loans. Their income is definately way over $200,000 and kids are all very accomplished academically. They never considered any elite or private school.</li>
</ul>