<p>I keep seeing again and again, posts on CC from students who get accepted to college but are offered no or low FA due to high family income/assets and are told by their parents that parents will pay little or nothing. Was there any discussion BEFORE the applications were sent out? I told my junior exactly what various colleges cost, that she could save a lot by going public instate and that if she wanted to attend a private she would probably have to take out loans and work during the school years and summers, but she was free to apply and see what kind of aid they gave her. It's very sad to see kids wasting application fees or early decision shots on colleges they will never be able to pay for. I understand that EFC and reality do not always coincide, but parents have to be up front about their intentions!!</p>
<p>Muffy: Exactly! We've been talking about costs and EFC for <em>years</em> here. Every time I see a thread where the student has acceptances and is just finding out parents have no money for it, can't/won't pay, I wonder why it was never discussed before.</p>
<p>And naive, with son #1. I knew the out of state schools he was applying to were expensive, but I thought he'd get merit and need-based aid. Ha Ha Ha. He was offered one scholarship of appx. $18,000/year at one school where the sticker was about 36,000. The other schools admitted him with virtually no aid. Our family EFC was more than I make as a teacher, so no need-based was coming our way. With two other sons soon to be in college, we did some quick math, suggested options if he REALLY wanted those schools (ROTC, etc.) and then he decided to go to the flagship state U (which was ranked just ahead of the school that offered the merit aid.)</p>
<p>Things were much more realistic with son #2. </p>
<p>Next year son #3 will apply. We'll take another hard, and this time realistic, look at the situation, and he'll make his decisions accordingly.</p>
<p>I agree Muffy. We told our son jr yr in hs that he would be responsible for tuition/books/spending money while we would pay for room/board/medical and miscellaneous costs. Once he moved off campus at a big savings we continued to pay college expenses equivelent to the on campus room/board costs to keep up our end of the bargain. BTW he did have a $76,000 college fund at his disposal.</p>
<p>In retrospect it was a very good decision. It got him actively involved in the college selection process insofar as he did active research on what merit aid scholarships might be available to him, important because our EFC was $80,000+. It also was another step toward adulthood by making him responsible for a major expense in his life. Finally it made him really appreciate the value of a college education.</p>
<p>He is expecting to be off to grad school next year and the $50,000+/- remaining in his college fund will be a great help. And we have not told him yet, but we will help him out financially if he needs it.</p>
<p>Muffy333 -- you haven't been on the boards as long as some of us older folks, so I thought I would warn you -- it gets worse.</p>
<p>No matter how many times we post "don't apply ED if finances are an issue", "talk with your parents about finances", "use the EFC calculator to estimate your families EFC", etc -- kids still don't listen!!!</p>
<p>right now you are just a seeing a few kids who are fairly high stat realizing that mom and dad aren't going to pay the high EFC that ED college expects. Just wait until later this spring, when regular decisions come in -- it will break your heart. Kids whose parents said they would pay -- thinking that EFC would be doable, Kids expecting merit aid and getting none, kids whose FA packages are nothing but loans (student and parent), and more.</p>
<p>Then we have the posters who are sure that they have a unique situation and if they explain it to the FA office just right, they will get tons more aid: living in a high cost area, inherited grandma's house, inherited cash -- but it is for something other than college, kept retirement funds in real estate/stocks/cash and can't sell it, parent is self-employed and actually makes nothing, etc. They plan on an appeal making it all work out -- and end up stuck because they refused to look at other options.</p>
<p>But this spring, it is almost too late to help most these kids -- and we rack our brains trying to give them suggestions. Some of these situtations are truly upsetting -- and we see kids who didn't give themselves any viable options when they applied.</p>
<p>And then there are power struggles - I know of a situation where some parents are playing some very sad games with their daughter. A very dutiful kid, but not perfect (read not a perfect straight A student, despite her best efforts), whose parents threaten not to pay for college if she doesn't get straight A's, or if she doesn't major in what they want to her to major in, or etc... The rules change on her constantly.</p>
<p>I'm sure there are many variations on those types of struggles.</p>
<p>I remembered that when I was applying to college, my parents did not tell me the financial limits until I was accepted at my #1 school and they would not pay for it. I vowed not to do that to my kids so from the time they were old enough to say college they knew exactly what we would contribute. </p>
<p>They each made their own decision based on that info. 2 only applied in state. 2 applied to others with scholarship opportunities and 1 managed OOS and the other private, with scholarships. </p>
<p>Last year DD knew when she was applying that if her #1 failed to provide sufficient scholarship it was not an option. It was her choice to apply anyhow and when they did not come through with enough money, gladly took one of the others. Everything happens for a reason. She is at a perfect fit school now and very happy.</p>
<p>BTW - those still in the process - ALWAYS have a financial fit school that you would be happy attending on your list.</p>
<p>I've probably gone the other way; we keep telling our kids how evil credit cards are and that they will perish in debt if they ever have one...so Kid #1 has resigned herself to going to a state school already and I have to persuade her there is nothing wrong with looking at privates! </p>
<p>But it is heartbreaking to see kids who work so hard in hopes of getting admitted to a prestigious college have their hopes dashed. I can't believe parents with six figure incomes who have obviously encouraged scholarsship can be so clueless.</p>
<p>Sometimes, the necessary money conversation doesn't take place because the parents are naive enough to believe that "meets full need" means "meets what the parents believe their family's full need to be" rather than the very different "meets what the college thinks the family's full need is -- after the family depletes their assets and takes out substantial loans."</p>
<p>Muffy -- we have also probably gone overboard with the college financing discussions! My oldest is petrified of any student loans (we are still paying off my husband's and that is the cause of alot of friction in our house). He is determined not to attend a school where he has to take on any debt (he is planning on a career that makes little to no money, just enough to survive). Luckily, he understands the situation and it will most likely work out.</p>
<p>Marian -- I am with you there. I can't remember how many times I have told kids to "sit down with your parents and use the EFC calculators, both institutional and federal methodology, and see what your estimated EFC is. Use accurate figures -- don't guess". I think that many parents just assume the EFC is supposed to come out of current income -- and when they see the actual EFC, they are blown away. Things have changed so much since they were in school.</p>
<p>My parents (mom just turned 70) constantly tells the story of my grandfather who worked his way through college (in the normal 4 years) while supporting his wife and 3 children. I keep telling her that it can't be done in today's world -- but she insists that it can. And he attended full-time at the state flagship U.</p>
<p>That's why it's important to have at least one good safety fit (academical, financial, and emotional) when reality hits.</p>
<p>I can see this being trouble for me when Zoosersister applies two years hence. I run the calculators, but the first year, we will have two in college so it's less than it will be in subsequent years. I'm paralyzed by trying to figure out what would happen in year two. Although I guess it depends on the school and the package received. I have the idea (which may be wrong) that if she gets merit money and maintains the required GPA it will come with her every year while need money would change. But I'm not completely sure. She and I are the most risk-adverse people you will ever meet so she jokes (not actually funny) about going to our local community college despite a freshman PSAT over 200, stellar grades in an IB program and interesting ECs. I could actually see her doing that. So clearly there is such a thing as going too far in the other direction.</p>
<p>Hsmomstef, LOL! Next time your mom throws out the grandpa story, just drop your head to your chest, close your eyes, and pretend to snore. She'll get the message. Has she written a check, paid a bill, or made an investment decision in the last 50 years?</p>
<p>My kids' grandparents keep bringing up the Smith family from their country club who sent all their kids to college and were awarded lots of need-based scholarships despite having a lovely home and cars so why can't Muffy's kids get the same.... I have to resist shrieking, "but Mr. Smith runs a cash based pyramid scheme from his basement!!!!!"</p>
<p>Muffy, maybe I'm evil, but I'd shriek it to shut them up.</p>
<p>zoosermom - That's part of the reason why D is at the school she's at. They gave her the best deal over 4 years (all scholarships, no need-based. Requirements to keep scholarships are certainly attainable). This will be the last year we have 2 in undergrad, so we knew any need-based was going to disappear. I'm always surprised by how many folks think the need-based award for the first year will remain the same for subsequent years.</p>
<p>We were fortunate, very fortunate.</p>
<p>S applied to and was accepted at state flagship (Very Good School and top 4 in his major) quite early in the process, and received a wonderful merit package from said school.</p>
<p>So he had that in his pocket as he applied to other, more expensive schools. He knew all along that being accepted at those schools was just the first step. </p>
<p>Whether he could actually attend would depend on finances.</p>
<p>We were da#@ed lucky that it all worked out so well.</p>
<p>I think that some of the parental denial that is evidenced on these threads comes from the understandable desire to give our kids the Very Best and a sense of something like embarrassment that we may not be able to provide this ourselves. There is also a corollary believe that our kids will somehow be rewarded by someone for their efforts and talents. And that it will, somehow, all work out.</p>
<p>Is this magical thinking?</p>
<p>Muffy333, that is hysterical!!!!!!!! And sad.</p>
<p>Why can't you say it, but maybe not with the shrieking?</p>
<p>It's a bit of a bummer that the SUNY system isn't so wonderful. I don't think that there is any SUNY that is right for her. I think the default position is going to be Hunter which is a CUNY.</p>
<p>mafool - Would have to start another website for THAT issue! :-)</p>
<p>I've been obsessing over college costs since the first was born, so I thought all parents did that!!! Of course, I naively believed she would be going to Harvard for way too long which is fortunate in retrospect because I've been saving for that and not SUNY!</p>