<p>Hi there! I have a few questions I hope someone can answer…</p>
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<li><p>(this one is the most important, lol.) I’ve read that Barnard doesn’t have the best financial aid, so I was hoping to ask some students (or other knowledgeable people :D) about it. My question is, is Barnard generous with their aid? I am Hispanic/Black, out-of-state, and, quite frankly, my family doesn’t make nearly enough money to pay for Barnard (IF there’s not a lot of fin. aid). Would that have an influence on my aid, or is it mostly grade/EC based? (I do have good grades/ECs, though)</p></li>
<li><p>It there much of a difference between BC/Columbia? When you graduate from BC, you get a Barnard/Columbia diploma, right?</p></li>
<li><p>Would a Barnard grad have nearly as much of a leg up (with jobs, internships, etc.) as a Columbia grad would? Columbia seems to have more of an established name than BC. D: Do you think a future employer would be more ‘impressed’ by an application that has Columbia on it, rather than BC?</p></li>
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<p>1) Like Columbia, fin aid is based on need. However, their endowment isn’t the best in the world. :(</p>
<p>2) Barnard is under the umbrella of Columbia University. You take classes at both Columbia and Barnard. Your degree, as I have heard it, says Barnard College of Columbia University.</p>
<p>3) It really depends upon what you want to do. A lot of people in New York and all around know about Barnard and if they don’t, you can easily lay on that you took classes at Columbia and explain the relationship in an interview. Barnard definitely sets your personality as a strong, confident woman.</p>
<p>Hi catsgomeow–I am not actually a current student/parent, but I thought I’d at least try to answer your questions for now. There are some very knowledgeable Barnard mothers who often respond to student’s questions, so they may also add input at some point.</p>
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<li><p>Barnard says that they will meet 100% of DEMONSTRATED need. From some of the early decision acceptances, it does not seem like they necessarily got as much as they wanted. However, Barnard is certainly better than other schools in that A) they will not only fulfill part of your demonstrated need and that b) they are need blind, so finances do not affect your decision. Your aid is also reevaluated every single year, so your package will probably change every year you attend Barnard.</p></li>
<li><p>There is definitely a big difference. Barnard is a small liberal arts college without a core curriculum, with a very different advising system, a separate campus, etc. Yes, your degree is from Barnard College of Columbia University, but it is not a Columbia College degree. </p></li>
<li><p>Barnard is definitely very prestigious. Maybe not as many people have heard of Barnard, but that is when you can explain that it is linked with Columbia University, which everyone knows because its an Ivy. Barnard also has a very good office of career development which can help link you with good jobs to start off, as well as help with writing resumes, etc.</p></li>
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<p>Hope this helps while you wait for someone who has more experience with Barnard to tell you more!</p>
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<li><p>I applied ED and my fin aid package is fairly good. It’s at about 48k with total tuition at 56k. This doesn’t include scholarships which can also be applicable to the parent and student contribution. It’s not as great as an Ivy, but that’s understandable given their endowments of 500 mil + with many in the billions range. </p></li>
<li><p>A lot of women don’t have problems finding jobs after graduating. There is even a whole office dedicating to doing such. I know my interviewer worked in the Mayor’s office and is happy with her job. Barnard gives the opportunity and greatly encourages students to find internships during the course of their 4 years, which ultimately makes the job search a whole lot easier.
Despite the name, you are still earning an Ivy League education so of course employers are going to be impressed. </p></li>
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<p>Make sure that you like Barnard in it’s own right and not just for the Columbia association. Sure you can take a good number of courses over there depending on your major, but Barnard is special in it’s own right and I would argue offers some things better than what Columbia offers.</p>
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<li><p>As others have said, aid is based on demonstrated need (not grades!), but is usually not as good as it could be. That being said, it isn’t absolutely horrible, just…not as good as it could be.</p></li>
<li><p>There are a variety of threads on this topic, but the gist of it is: yes but no. Barnard is a separate but very connected institution. You can take Columbia classes (the vast majority of my classes were Columbia because my major happened to be housed there), play on Columbia sports teams (I played on the rugby team), join Columbia clubs, even live in Columbia dorms if you want to, etc. Your diploma is signed by both the president of Barnard and the president of Columbia University. You attend a Barnard College graduation ceremony and a Columbia University graduation ceremony. However, the requirements to graduate are different from Columbia College/SEAS/GS. </p></li>
<li><p>Most employers who have heard of Columbia will have heard of Barnard, and will be equally impressed by it. If they have not, you can always include the full name of Barnard (Barnard College of Columbia University) or explain what Barnard is. I have never had a problem, and Barnard has definitely given me a leg up from what I can tell, at least in grad school admissions, and when I was applying to jobs right out of college.</p></li>
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<li>Barnard provides need-based aid only. Your GPA, etc. do not factor in. It was my experience over the 4 years that my daughter was at Barnard that the financial aid office was much more helpful and easier to work with during the years when my daughter qualified for a Pell grant. This is anecdotal only, and I may be very mistaken, but I had the impression that somewhere inside the office there must be a directive to “maximize Pell eligibility”</li>
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<p>If Barnard is a reach for you, then it is likely that the aid award you get from Barnard will be as good or better than many other private colleges. If, on the other hand, you’ve got a good chance of getting into a super elite college like Harvard or Stanford – you might expect better aid from them. I’d say that if financial aid is very important, then cast a wide net and be sure to apply to schools where you are highly likely to get merit aid as well as colleges like Barnard. </p>
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<li> The diploma says Columbia University at the top, in big letters… (in Latin). Then somewhere in the middle of the page, under the big letters, it says Barnard College (also in Latin), and at the bottom the diploma is signed by the President of Columbia University and by the President of Barnard.<br></li>
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<p>This drives students at Columbia College and SEAS nuts, but the diploma (and degree) comes from Columbia University. Barnard does not issue any degrees – all it can do is recommend to Columbia that the degree be issued. They make it very clear around graduation time that the degree is not “officially” awarded until after the Columbia ceremony. </p>
<p>(Side note: one very nice thing about Barnard is that you get at least 3 days’ wear out of your graduation robe, if you attend the Baccalaureate as well as the Barnard & Columbia commencements. Barnard pays for the robe. It looks exactly like the robes worn by all other Columbia grads. )</p>
<p>However, you will probably not put “Columbia University” on job apps – that would be misleading and could backfire if an employer calls CU to verify enrollment or graduation date. Instead you will either write: “Columbia University (Barnard College)” – or “Barnard College, Columbia University” or something equivalent. </p>
<p>As far as the difference – the schools have different sets of requirements for degrees and an overall different ambiance. Barnard students can enroll in just about any course offered by the University, but there may be varying requirements over whether a course taken in a Columbia department can be applied to satisfy a major requirement in the parallel Barnard department. So if you attend Barnard you will almost certainly take some of your coursework at Columbia, but in most majors you can expect to be focused more and more on Barnard coursework as you progress – unless you happen to chose a major housed wholly at Columbia or offered via the auspices of a joint department. (One thing I don’t think high school students get is quite how important a role the specific department of your major(s) plays at just about any college. If you know what you are likely to major in, it’s worth doing some checking to compare what the path may be like at each college.)</p>
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<li> Your degree doesn’t get you a job – YOU get the job. Barnard’s career services provides an amazing level of support to seniors, if you opt to take advantage of what they offer. My daughter has a dream job, in her field of study – I don’t think she could have imagined a better position - she received a phone call informing her that she was hired on the morning of her Barnard commencement. But my d. was hired on the basis of her internship experience and her graduation honors status – I know that because the agency that employs her posts little bios of its employees online, and I can compare my d’s bio with the bio’s of the people who preceded her in the same position and with her co-workers who have the same position – right now she has one co-worker who is a Stanford grad and another who graduated from CUNY. But they all have really amazing internship experiences. (And my d. got her internships completely outside of anything that Barnard offered - that is, she could have gotten those internships no matter what college she attended).<br></li>
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<p>I think the same would apply to Columbia students – in fact, it might be tougher for them because they don’t have the benefit of the more supportive LAC-like atmosphere cultivated at Barnard – but the point is, the question in 4 years won’t be where your degree came from, it will be what you did a along the way. Obviously a degree from a top tier college or university is going to command more respect in the job market than from some lower-level public college, but there is a very broad equivalence between all top schools, including public flagships. That is, they will note that you went to a really good college – they won’t really care which one it was (unless they have their own ties – alums tend to look kindly on those who come from the same college). </p>
<p>And just about anyone who would be doing the hiring knows Barnard’s reputation just as well as they know Columbia’s. Barnard has been affiliated with Columbia for 120 years. People tend to equate the names. </p>
<p>That being said, don’t pick a college for prestige. Pick the college for fit and for what it offers in relation to educational goals.</p>
<p>All things being equal, I would always hire the woman whose resume says “Barnard College” over the woman whose resume says “Columbia University (Barnard College).” The former exudes school pride and self-confidence.</p>
<p>I know that I speak for myself, and most likely many other parents, when I say thank you to calmom for the thoughtful advice and wisdom that she has shared throughout the Barnard blogosphere! The weeks we spent anxiously waiting for our daughter (Naomiii)'s ED acceptance has to some degree been made tolerable by your posts. Thank You.</p>
<p>I second davidmarne and also churchmusicmom. I know how long it takes to type these long responses, but it really is you two who make BC the best forum on CC. Thank you.</p>
<p>PBR, (re post #7)-- do you also believe that graduates of “Fu Foundation School of Engineering” should omit mention of Columbia University from their resumes?</p>
<p>Again, the Barnard graduate has a degree from Columbia University That is what it says on the degree; that is a FACT. Barnard does not exist as a stand-alone institution; it exists as an independently administered affiliate of Columbia U.</p>
<p>I think it would be misleading for a job applicant to fail to mention Barnard as the name of the undergraduate institution … but given the fact that Barnard sees fit to write “Barnard College of Columbia University” on its own letterhead, it makes no sense to fail to include the mention of the umbrella university. I don’t think that graduates of “Stern School of Business” or “Gallatin School of Individualized Study” leave mention of NYU off their resumes, or that graduates of “The Wharton School” fail to mention UPenn. </p>
<p>I am really tired of the argument of denialists that Barnard women should “take pride” in their own college by pretending that the Columbia relationship doesn’t exist. Most Barnard grads, like my daughter, have attended a large proportion of their classes at Columbia, won academic awards or honors under the aegis of Columbia, held positions held positions of responsibility with Columbia student associations, and/or held research positions or paying jobs via Columbia University departments. I am sorry that some students at Columbia College or SEAS (or their parents) have so little pride in their own university that they refuse to acknowledge the existence of an affiliate college that forms an integral part of the overall college community.</p>
<p>Unlike the “denialists,” I have always acknowledged and appreciated the affiliation of Barnard with Columbia. I have never suggested that anyone fail to acknowlege the relationship or neglect to understand how it benefits both institutions in multiple and profound ways. I understand the whole curriculum, awards, student organizations, diploma, etc. cross-pollinization, and endorse it. Your stridency, if directed at me, is misguided.</p>
<p>At this point, you must fully understand the following, given the countless hours spent and pages written on this topic on this forum alone: There are significant numbers of people who believe, rightly or wrongly, that significant numbers of women use the affiliation as a means to “bootstrap” into a position that is not quite honest, or to get to my post, “resume-pad.” Many of those skeptical folks are presumably employers or future employers.</p>
<p>As an employer myself, my post was sincere and not intended to denigrate the wonderful education provided at Barnard. My belief is that virtually every other employer that matters to Barnard grads also understands how wonderful Barnard is (feel free, of course, to tell me if you think I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure about this, even though I live thousands of miles away). Perhaps few understand the nuanced relationship between Barnard and Columbia as well as you, but I suspect virtually all understand that Barnard is affiliated with Columbia.</p>
<p>Given all that, why add the Columbia reference to one’s resume? If virtually all employers are “in the know,” what does the reference add? As I stated indirectly in my post, I infer that the applicant needs to add the Columbia name to validate her credentials, lacks confidence in her credentials, or was counseled to include the Columbia name by the Barnard placement office or some poster on a forum like this (most likely).</p>
<p>Perhaps you would view the resume differently, but I think a job applicant who simply states “Barnard College” on her resume as her alma mater shows confidence and pride.</p>
<p>P.S. I hope you understand why the SEAS student might include “Columbia University” on his or her resume. I would spell it out, but I don’t want this to turn into another billkamax (sp?) thread.</p>
<p>The applicant would be inclined to include mention of Columbia University in their B.A. education line of the resume, because Barnard College does not issue degrees, and their degree was issued and conferred by Columbia University.</p>
<p>However I suggest applicants neglect this technicality and just say Barnard College.
When I was interviewing people, years before I knew anything about this, I interviewed a Barnard kid and I thought it was really weird that she wrote Barnard College, Columbia University. Everyone who is interviewing a certain strata of applicants is aware of Barnard and aware of Columbia. You would have to be closer to the issue than most people are to know that the degrees of Barnard college students are actually issued by Columbia University and Barnard does not issue degrees. To anyone who knows of the two institutions but does not know about the degree thing, it just seems odd that they are also mentioning Columbia. Sort of like what pbr was saying,but the other way around, it seems like they are feeling the need to hide behind Columbia’s name which is odd since Barnard is prestigious in itself.</p>
<p>What I believe now is the case is that most of these people are not hiding behind anything, rather they are just being accurate, because Barnard College does not issue the degree, and also this is how they are told to write it. All good points, but I think they really would be better off just writing Barnard College. Otherwise some employers may be left the way I was, scratching my head and wondering about the applicant. Surely you don’t want to be in the position of explaining the arcana of the Barnard Columbia relationship to a would-be employer. Or having them arrive at negative conclusions on their own.</p>
<p>Employers may receive hundreds of resumes for any given opening - from colleges throughout the country. Those resumes are going likely to be screened by a lower level employee or administrative assistant before they ever make it to the hiring manager’s desk. Adding the two, very truthful words - “Columbia University” - may be the element that draws the attention of the less knowledgeable assistant. Given the current employment market, I wouldn’t go for “subtle” – there were well over 300 applicants for the position my daughter currently holds, and only a handful selected for follow up interviews.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t know what was on my daughter’s resume. A resume that she was using when looking for work the previous year had the words “Barnard College, Columbia University” – but during her senior year she took full advantage of Barnard career services, and I assume they probably gave her input and suggestions as to her resume, and she probably listened carefully to whatever they recommended. </p>
<p>Whether “Columbia University” is included at the top of the resume or not, it would have to show up in the employment section, and wherever she listed other activities she had been involved in. </p>
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<p>Well that would present an opportunity for discussion of the relationship at the the job interview then… though I seriously doubt what you say. I’ve always known that Barnard students received Columbia degrees – and if someone knows of the relationship, then they aren’t going to think the mention of Columbia is odd (any more than they would think it odd if a student wrote “University of Pennsylvania” after "Wharton) … and if they don’t know of the relationship, then certainly it is beneficial for the Barnard student to be able to explain it to them. </p>
<p>The Columbia relationship is a very significant aspect of the Barnard experience. I’m not talking about prestige – I am talking about the resources offered by the larger university, and the experiences it affords.</p>
<p>My daughter went to Barnard AND Columbia. You can pretend that the schools, their students and faculty operate in separate universes, but in reality they don’t. Columbia classes and Columbia activities were an integral part of my d’s experience. There are Barnard students working as writers and editors for the Columbia Spectator; students in leadership roles for various Columbia clubs; student athletes playing in Ivy League sports; students doing undergraduate research in Columbia science labs; students who are taking Columbia majors.</p>
<p>This isn’t something I discussed with her in line with this idiotic CC debate. It never came up in that context. Instead it came up again and again in the context of her social experiences and involvement in on-campus politics. Most of my d’s closest friends from school – the people she spent the most time with - are guys who attended CC or GS. </p>
<p>I actually find it very strange that anyone would expect anything else. To me it is inherent in the idea of a “college” vs. a “university”. (What would be odd in my mind – though I suspect it happens all the time – would be a student who submits a resume saying he or she earned a degree at “Columbia University” without specifying the college. If it was an older student, I’d wonder the resume was trying to to bury the fact that the applicant came through GS rather than Columbia College).</p>
<p>I tend to land on the side of Calmom in this. Barnard College, Columbia University is exactly accurate and is, I believe, what is on my D’s resume. Though on her bio for her grad program, it just says Barnard College.</p>
<p>This is not, in the end, that big of a deal.</p>