Maryland, Northeastern, or Bowdoin for business/econ

College Search & Selection
1

I’m in a bit of a difficult predicament right now. I’ve narrowed down my choice to 3 completely different places: University of Maryland (my in-state), Northeastern, and Bowdoin.

Maryland seems like the obvious choice financially. I got decent scholarships which will put it at a price my parents can completely pay. I’d graduate debt free and potentially have a small amount of money left over for grad school in later years.

Northeastern also gave me good scholarships. I’d graduate with about 25k in federal student loans, so definitely not too bad.

At Bowdoin, I’d have about 80k in debt after graduation (yes, I understand how the loans will work so please don’t focus on how I would procure the loans, etc. too much).

At Maryland and Northeastern, I’m in the honors college. I didn’t like Maryland all too much. I liked Northeastern only a little more. However, I’d say I seemed to “fit” a little better at Northeastern over Maryland.

I really liked Bowdoin, and I could definitely see myself attending. I really felt the “fit” factor there. Another benefit for Bowdoin is that I’d be able to run cross country and track there. I ran all throughout high school, and I’d like to continue running competitively if possible since it is something I really enjoy. I couldn’t run at Northeastern or Maryland, as I’m not quite D1 level.

I plan to major in business (probably finance) at Maryland or Northeastern, and econ at Bowdoin. I also plan to double major, but I’m not yet sure in what field (possibly Computer Science or Math). From what I hear, Northeastern’s co-ops would work wonders finding a job and getting experience. However, Bowdoin supposedly has better connections and alumni relations higher up.

All comments are appreciated. Please discuss any thoughts or concerns here since I’m having a tough time choosing on my own. For what it’s worth, my parents’ advice is to go wherever I want to go and worry about loans after I graduate.

2

Bowdoin is a great college and Nathaniel Hawthorne went there. But if you’re going to grad school $80,000 plus the cost of grad school might put you in the poor house, so be careful, something Hawthorne himself would know something and warn you about.

3

Sorry. Taking on $80k in debt just so you can run track is stupid. Go to UM-CP or Northeastern and find a local amateur track group to run with.

Where do you get the notion that Bowdoin has better connections “higher up”? By the time you get to “higher up” yourself, what will matter is your own career path to that point, not where you went to college umpteen years ago.

4

Agreed, pick between NEU and UM-CP.

5

Bowdoin is a fine school.
However, the research I’ve seen indicates you are unlikely to enjoy higher career earnings just by choosing Bowdoin over NEU or UMCP (http://www.nber.org/papers/w17159). $80K is a high premium to pay, especially if you need loans to cover it. The honors programs should give you some of the benefits of a smaller college like Bowdoin. So UMCP or NEU makes more sense in your situation.

6

And besides, you can read all of Hawthorne’s novels without borrowing all that cash. And the Bowdoin sweat shirts are cheap. Just buy one and wear it proudly at UMCP or the other school!

7

With all due respect to the other posters, they are dead wrong on this IMO.

$80k is a bargain for a Bowdoin education. Plus, it’s a feeder to top grad schools and Wall Street, if that’s what you choose. Few are lucky to have this opportunity, and i think it’s a mistake to pass it up.

PS if you go the wall street route, while 80k may seem like a lot right now, in 10 years it’s probably going to be 1 month’s pay.

8

@alum88 You have to be joking- 80/month salary would be nearly a million dollars a year. Are you really trying to argue that Bowdoin econ grads are all making a million a year?
Yes, Bowdoin is too expensive. NEU (and I’m assuming Maryland) both have club/intramural track. I would go to NEU, because their business school is something special and, if you aren’t already doing so, the money you make on co-ops can make that debt disappear.
You should worry about loans now, not after you graduate. Trust me on this.

9

Ummm… Yes. They are recruited to Wall Street, and attend the best B schools in the country. That pedigree results quite regularly in million dollar salaries, and much more. Bowdoin has a larger endowment per capita than half the Ivy League. Who do you think is giving the college all that money? Very, very wealthy alums. Bowdoin has one of the highest alumni giving rates of any school in the country, with good reason.

10

I’ve read that about 60 percent of the 500 or fewer undergrads pay full tuition, which means that over half the students are very well off to begin with, so I’m not surprised that many go on to top grad schools and NYC. But that kind of salary generally is reserved for money managers. And outside the Northeast, Bowdoin doesn’t have national brand recognition, as compared to Amherst.

I wonder how the 40 percent fare.

If OP goes to Dartmouth for B School, he’s going to borrow an additional $120,000 for two years, a total of $200,000, at least. Assuming an overdue correction in the market, he cannot count on paying down that debt in less than several years, and it can impact his ability to buy a house or have a family. If he doesn’t go to B school, then he’s worse off than over half his classmates on commencement. Hawthorne is my favorite American author, but I’m not sure it’s worth it.

http://bowdoinorient.com/article/1281

https://www.bowdoin.edu/ir/data/faqs.shtml

11

An MBA for a promising employee is often paid for by top Wall Street employers, so that is a common way to defray cost.

And, it’s true there is a segment of Bowdoin students who are wealthy and who will have a tremedous Rolodex to draw from when they graduate Bowdoin and enter the working world. Guess what? They will be your close friends after 4 years together at a very intimate school, and they will serve as an invaluable resource to form your own contacts, connections, job opportunities, financing etc. Beyond this, you will be studying with a very talented group of kids – wealthy or not-- who will go on and do great things, and likewise form a tremendous network amd connections.

Also, i don’t think Amherst has any better national name recognition. It’s ranked 2 and Bowdoin is 4 on the national liberal arts list (which in my book is barely distinguishable), and all the major firms recruit at both schools with vigor.

As a data point, review the average ‘profits per partner’ (average salaries of partners) at the 100 largest law firms. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_firms_by_profits_per_partner These are the firms which service Wall Street and the C Suites of the largest corporations in the country, and i can assure you that the clients earn far more than the lawyers do. The point is, if you can pave a road to a career at that level, what seems like a large investment now, will be returned may times over, and in hindsight not seem like nearly as much as it did as a senior in high school. That’s not to say you can’t do any of this from UMD or NE-- both fine schools-- but Bowdoin has a long and strong history as a feeder, and your chances will be maximized IMO.

12

Please, I’ve worked in BigLaw. You do realize the legal market is oversaturated and that the path to partnership at those firms is difficult even for those who go to top law schools, right? Have you read abovethelaw.com lately? The path from Bowdoin to Skadden, for example, is a remote possibility, and the odds of making more money as a retail stockbroker are much better nowadays. Assuming that kind of debt is foolish, IMO, especially if he plans to go to B or Law school, in which case the debt will explode. He simply doesn’t have the resources that his classmates do to assume that risk. I encourage him and you to read the law school topic on CC.

Btw, I have read your alumni magazine and noticed how many of the same grads appear in photos of many different alumni weddings, proving your point that everybody knows everybody else. I’m not sure that translates into taking care of each other, but I’ll take your word for it.

13

I am a partner at one of the firms on that list, and i know all about it. I also know what my Bowdoin classmates who majored in econ have done in their careers, irrespective of their family’s resources. And i know how valuable my college connection to them has been in my own career.

14

I’d go with Maryland. Bowdoin is a great school, but the price isn’t worth it. $80k is a good downpayment on a house. Northeastern is way more of a regional school and doesn’t have the same name value the others do. Most people not from the northeast will probably ask you “Do you mean Northwestern?” when you talk about it.

Maryland is a big state school with lots of resources. Use them wisely and go to a top grad school.

There is no point doing going somewhere very expensive and selling your soul for a Bachelor’s degree.

If I were to sell my soul for something it had darn well better be Willy Wonka’s factory or Buckingham palace.

15

High debt may be able to be paid off if one goes to Wall Street, but it can force the student to aim for Wall Street or some similarly high paid job even if s/he decides that s/he really wants to do something else that has lower pay.

No or low debt means that the student has more options in terms of jobs and careers because his/her minimum pay level is lower.

16

While there is no right answer here, there are different perspectives, and, having personally experienced the life changing impact of a top LAC similar to Bowdoin I would fully concur with @Alum88.

Depending on the field there are doors (particularly in elite finance and consulting) that can be very difficult (if not impossible baring connections) to open without a degree from an “elite” university or LAC (there are academic studies supporting this that are discussed in other threads). However, far more important, is the impact that comes from rubbing shoulders with professors that are the leaders in their fields and consistently brilliant students. The student’s mind is opened and challenged in ways that are life changing, and the doors are opened for the student to lead the most professionally fulfilling (interesting and exciting) life available to them.

The frank reality is that you only live once and while an incremental $80,000 is not inconsequential the horizons that open up for those able to attend a Bowdoin intellectually and professionally (and, regretfully, even socially), generally speaking, are substantially greater than that for a student attending Maryland or Northeastern.

It wouldn’t surprise me if every student attending Bowdoin not already receiving a full ride could have received substantially more aid (including full merit rides) at other colleges and universities. They (and their parents), value not just the reputation, but more importantly the opportunities Bowdoin provides to become everything that God created them to be and to pursue their interests at the highest levels whatever they may be. Attending a Bowdoin allows the student to explore academically and change direction without worrying that he or she will graduate from a department with little credibility in a college or university with little credibility.

Often the case is made that the saved money can be used later to attend a top graduate school and have an “elite” terminal degree. This is a specious argument where a few outliers are used to prove the case (it is like saying that if you drop out of college you can become a Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell or Mark Zuckerberg or that if you go to Maryland you can become a Sergey Brin (who attended Maryland because his father was a math professor there)). The reality is the top business school (and other top graduate school) classes are vastly disproportionately made up of students who attended “elite” undergraduates. Yes, it is possible to go from Maryland or Northeastern to an HBS, but the room for error on your transcript is far smaller, and your ability to have gotten the jobs that will be viewed as credible by the admissions committee substantially more limited. In fact, at HBS I don’t recall ever having met a student from either Maryland or Northeastern, but have met several who attended Bowdoin.

My final point is that as daunting as $80,000 may appear at this time, the difference in lifetime earnings from an “elite” undergrad versus others is likely to dwarf that amount. Obviously, this is not true for everyone (career choice impacts this), but it is for a substantial number (there are also studies supporting this assertion).

In summary IMO, the opportunity to attend an “elite” college or university is priceless, if at all affordable.

17

Let’s be clear that the OP’s cost to attend Bowdoin would not be $80K. $80K is the amount s/he’d have to borrow.
To put this in perspective, among Bowdoin students who graduate with debt, the average debt at graduation is about $21K. http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-private-colleges/index.php?table=lib_arts

Another data point:
According to payscale.com, the average Bowdoin alumnus earns $46K in starting pay and $91,400 by mid-career.
The average NEU grad earns $52,700K in starting pay and $87,700 by mid-career.
The average UMCP grad earns $50,600K in starting pay and $89,800 by mid-career.

Now, it may be the case that the ~10% or ~25% of highest-earning Bowdoin alumni are earning much more than the corresponding Maryland or Northeastern alumni. However, is the success of those “elite” college alumni attributable to treatment effects of the elite education, or to selection effects of cherry-picking more capable, ambitious students at admission time? The research I cited above seems to suggest it is the latter (http://www.nber.org/papers/w17159).

There may well be other comparative advantages to a Bowdoin education that have nothing to do with future salaries. The question is, is your family able and willing to pay for them? Could get some of the same benefits from study abroad or other enriching experiences for much less than $80K (plus interest)?

Where is the hard evidence that Bowdoin is a superior “feeder” to top grad schools? That evidence should show that for Bowdoin, UMCP, and NEU applicants with similar qualifications (GPA, scores, etc), Bowdoin applicants are admitted at significantly higher rates to top graduate/professional schools.

Yes, Bowdoin is a fine college. In my opinion, it does provide a better undergraduate learning environment than UMCP or NEU. It is worth some price premium over those alternatives. It’s up to the OP’s family to decide how big a premium they are able and willing to spend … but in my opinion, $80K in debt is too much.

18

If this were HYSP I might yield but it’s not. And even though a few BigLaw partners went there does not warrant taking this unreasonable risk in today’s market. I went to a top law school which opened many doors but the market has changed so radically (I rarely hire any attorney at $1000 per hour) that I won’t recommend it to anyone who doesn’t have the resources to pay.

19

@tk21769 I wouldn’t put much weight in what is reported in payscale.com. Bowdoin’s President has commented on this particular ranking/survey, and the fact is that very few alums respond to the payscale surveys, so the data is highly suspect and inaccurate. Frankly, Bowdoin’s endowment would not be what it is if the average mid-career grad was making $90K. The college received almost $50M in gifts last year, and it has less than 20,000 living alums.

20

A related issue that applies to all schools is just how much of a head start can propel you to the top. I learned years after I graduated from law school, for instance, just how many kids who made law review (and were top of the class) came from families with at least one attorney parent. They had a huge advantage than most of us, such as learning very early how to read and analyse judicial opinions, and many of them kept their background very private. Being on law review, in turn, opened the doors to all kinds of goodies financially, such as gaining offers from the best clerkships and law firms.

My point is that given the debt this young man will need to get into a top B or law school, he’s already at a disadvantage.

By way of comparison, I borrowed $5,000 for all four years at USC, a very expensive private school in the late 1980s, which is equivalent to about $10,000 in today’s dollars, per the CPI index. I then borrowed $60,000 to attend Michigan Law School, which is about $103,000 in today’s dollars, a grand total of $113,000 in today’s dollars. My first job out of law school was $80,000 or $133,000 in today’s dollars, and jobs were much more plentiful then than today in BigLaw.

This kid will need to borrow almost twice as much as I did in today’s dollars and will be lucky if he gets a job in a top law firm. If he doesn’t get in, he’ll be in dire straits.

He’s better off going elsewhere, UNLESS Bowdoin is his final destination and he either doesn’t go to grad school or his employer pays for B school.