Master in Arch? top grad schools. Is it hard to get in?

<p>My dd is currently in a 5 yr Barch. She really wants to grad school and would like to go to a top Master program in architecture. I'm not an architect, so I really don't know much about the field. So I'm trying to educate myself about the field so I can have a intelligent conversation with my Dd about her plans. I have many questions.
-How hard is to get into a top program? Colombia, MIT, Yale, Harvard, etc., etc.,
-what are the most important factors that a top graduate arch program look for? grades, portfolio, extra curricular activities, knowing more than one language, etc., etc.,
-what is best to go to grad school after finishing undergrad or to work for a couple of years and then apply to grad school?
-would it make a significant different to go to grad school? currently my dd attends one of the top 5 Barch programs.
-are there scholarships available for students who go to grad school? are they need or merit based?
Please feel free to provide feedback on relevant matters that i may be missing. Thanks so much.</p>

<p>Yes, the top M.Arch programs are highly competitive, and I think getting more so as applications are up in reaction to architecture hiring being down. Just like undergrad, it’s good to have a reach/match/safety list.</p>

<p>I would say that the most important admissions factor is the portfolio, followed by undergraduate GPA and recommendations. M.Arch programs like to put together a diverse class by gender, education, age, experience, culture and race so any out of the ordinary demographic helps. It’s quite common for students to have work experience before starting on a masters but not required.</p>

<p>Fellowships are available and they are for the most part merit based as family income need not be reported for graduate school. Money is very tight at the top programs, though, so don’t count on too much.</p>

<p>Most architecture schools have information sessions – usually held in the Fall – that provide insight into their masters’ programs.</p>

<p>I agree. Portfolio is the most important factor, though some schools look at GRE’s and GPA’s more than others. Some nice letters of recommendation from someone they know also helps. Since she already has a five year degree she would be applying to the 3 semester post-professional degree programs. For these programs experience also counts and most candidates will have several years of practice under their belts (some programs require this).</p>

<p>In any normal economy I would suggest your daughter should practice for two to four years before going back to grad school. This will give her some insights into the industry and perhaps help her to understand what she wants to accomplish in the field and what school can best help her. However I know this is a miserable time to find a job and grad school probably beats working at Burger King ;-)</p>

<p>rick</p>

<p>thanks for the very useful info, momrath and rick12.</p>

<p>I got it. The most important factor for grad admissions are portfolio, letters of recommendation (from someone they know), and some look at GPA and/or GRE scores too. </p>

<p>rick12, i’m sorry i was not very clear. My Dd is still a student and has two years to go before graduation. I’m not sure how the economy will be by then. According to what you stated work experience is very valuable before attending grad school. I think dd has some time to think about the advantages of working after graduation before going to grad school. I don’t know. I’ve been reading mixing messages about the economy. It seems that we’ll be in the hole for a long time : (</p>

<p>Excuse my question. But I need to ask because my dd was talking to me about her projects in arch school. She told me that she thinks that she may have a talent but sometimes but she’s not 100% sure. She has a pasion and loves architecture. Anyhow, I didn’t know what to say. I don’t know anything about “talent” in the architecture field. So my questions is how does an undergrad student knows if she has “talent”. I think architecture is like art. Everybody has different taste which makes “talent” a very subjective opinion?</p>

<p>Of course i’m a parent, but how would I know if my Dd has “talent”. I look at all her drawings, pics, projects, and I’m really impressed by her work. But of course, i’m her Mom. So how do I know? or how does my Dd knows where she stands among all her peers? my dd attends a 5 year Barch, which is among the top 4. Any feedback/pointers would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>And is “talent” the only variable that is really important in architecture. Does having a passion for the arch or having a strong work ethics counts? I’m asking this because according to momrath and ric12, portfolio is a very important component when applying for March. I wonder if “talent” is what makes someone a successful architect? or is there something else?</p>

<p>As you say architecture is an art and can be subjective based on the professor you happen to be working with. However, when you are in school you should have a good idea of where you stand relative to your classmates and that should give you a good indication of where you stand talent wise in your class. Let me just point out a couple of things relative to talent and professional success;</p>

<p>1) I think you need to have a solid (not necessarily spectacular) level of talent to become a designer in a good firm, because once you get into the profession your passion, drive and work ethic will have as much to do with your success as your talent level. Some people come into our office with a wonderful portfolio and never develop, others come in with a solid but unspectacular portfolio and continue to grow year after year. I wish I had a better ability to predict this. Design is competitive in almost any good firm, and it will require tremendous dedication and hard work to achieve a lead designer position. It will not be an 8 to 5 job, and there are a lot of talented people that decide that it is not what they want out of life. That’s OK because;</p>

<p>2) There are many good jobs in the profession, not just the lead designer. For every design director there are probably ten other architects who are leading firms and/or major projects and living a challenging and rewarding professional life. This is seldom presented as an option in school, but it is the reality of the profession.</p>

<p>This is why I think it is good to work a bit before heading back to grad school. It will give your daughter a chance to really get a taste of the profession and decide what her role should be and whether grad school can help her get there.</p>

<p>BTW; if this economy does not get better in two years when she graduates we will all have closed our doors and found something else to do.</p>

<p>rick</p>

<p>rick12, thanks so much for all the great info and insight about the field. </p>

<p>You’re right rick12. My dd should have a good indication where she stands among her peers. My guess is that sometimes she gets a bit insecure because she really likes arch and really wants to do well. Based on everything dd tells me about her projects, reviews, etc., etc., she’s doing pretty good.</p>

<p>Thanks for the heads up about talent and explanation that talent by itself is not enough because drive, passion, work ethic, dedication are also essential to be top designer arch.
Every time my dd talks to me about arch is about design. Maybe she likes design the most or maybe she doesn’t know about anything else as you said it --school doesn’t give students much options/alternatives besides design. </p>

<p>Again, excuse my question (a non arch here). when you say “There are many good jobs in the profession, not just the lead designer. For every design director there are probably ten other architects who are leading firms and/or major projects and living a challenging and rewarding professional life.” what type of jobs are those? could you give some examples?</p>

<p>Again, thanks so much. I really appreciate all the info about the field.</p>

<p>A ‘classic’ partnership would have a design partner, a business development partner, and a managing/technical partner. KPF in NY was a good example of this. Within the office you might have a series of studio heads who run the individual practice groups. For us these would be; healthcare, higher ed, religious, theater/entertainment, and government. The studios work as semi-autonomous groups with the principals running the groups responsible for business development and management. Underneath those guys are the project managers and project leaders who direct the work on the day to day jobs. We have three design principals who work across the different studios, and project designers embedded within the studios. This does not even count the specifications writers, construction administrators (those who oversee the construction), and BIM/CAD managers.</p>

<p>Everybody contributes to the design process, but very few are involved in the initial clean sheet design. Yes, design is the most glamorous (and pressure filled) position, but in a good firm there is recognition and reward for all the people that contribute to the creation of a project. Certainly the surest path to professional and financial success is the ability to bring work in the door, though few people in school aspire to the role of salesperson ;-)</p>

<p>rick</p>

<p>Post [#7[/url</a>] is one of the best posts I’ve read on this site in sometime.</p>

<p>The only thing I would add is that arch/design students can develop collaboration skills through projects that involve other disciplines like business/marketing, engineering/construction and social sciences. </p>

<p>Here’s an example of this type of initiative at Miami University:</p>

<p>Miami Design Collaborative (several projects detailed at their [url=<a href=“http://mdc.muohio.edu/]web”>http://mdc.muohio.edu/]web</a> site](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1065282134-post7.html]#7[/url”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1065282134-post7.html)):</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>As the site notes, one of the program’s partners is [John</a> Foster](<a href=“http://mdc.muohio.edu/?page_id=6]John”>http://mdc.muohio.edu/?page_id=6), a Miami grad and head of Talent and Organization for [url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEO]IDEO[/url”>IDEO - Wikipedia]IDEO[/url</a>].</p>

<p>rick12, you are great! thanks so much for the explanation. I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>Some positions/job titles sounds like is mostly arch work, but other positions/job titles sound more like a managing job. Of course, to manage an arch project, the manager needs to know arch very well. So I wonder if the jobs such as business development partner, studio heads, project manager, project leaders get to do any type of arch work, or do they only do the management type of work? So I’m thinking because design is the most glamarous, demanding, stressful type of job in arch not many architects want to follow that path and not all arch have what it takes to be a very good design arch too. So the arch who doens’t follow the design path in arch, are the arch who do all the other type of work such as studio heads, project managers, project leaders, construction admin, etc. I think i’m aswering my own question…</p>

<p>Also, do the business development partner, principals, or studio heads have any background in business such an MBA? Of course, after earning an archicture degree, and MBA would be a cup of tea…</p>

<p>“Certainly the surest path to professional and financial success is the ability to bring work in the door, though few people in school aspire to the role of salesperson ;-)”
Now, I’m confused. I thought arch firms get their projects by bidding? in what other ways does an arch firm bring business? do arch firm have a marketing deparment to promote their services? </p>

<p>Going back to design, i’m also thinking that most if not all students graduating from arch want to do design; then the design jobs become very very competitive. At the same time, I’m glad to know that other type of arch jobs are highly rewarded too. </p>

<p>Thank you so much, rick12. you’re great! Now, I have a better idea about arch jobs. I still have much to learn, but at least I’m not as clueless I was before asking a question in this forum. Of course, my dd will make her own decision about her own job as an arch, but at least I’ll be able to know what she’s taling about ; )</p>

<p>Aliasto, let me see if I can answer a couple of your questions;</p>

<p>Do project managers need to know architecture very well? Yes, a good project manager is a highly skilled and knowledgeable individual who can orchestrate the team, the consultants, the owner (by far the toughest to manage), the contractor, and all the regulatory issues. He needs to be able to fight for and maintain design quality, manage the work so we turn a profit, and deal with contractual issues so they do not put the firm at risk. Many of these folks were very talented coming out of school and have decided that they would rather be a conductor than a musician. Good PM’s also tend to generate strong customer loyalty and repeat work, and as such they are typically well compensated.</p>

<p>How do architects get work? We typically do not bid on work, we typically negotiate fees after we are selected, though fees can also be included as part of the selection process. Probably 60% or more of our work involves repeat projects. There are primarily three ways we get new projects;</p>

<p>1) Community involvement; we spend a lot of time getting involved in the communities in which we work. By meeting as many people as possible we hope they will think of us when they have a building project. This may be the cities in which we work (chamber of commerce, charity boards, country club memberships, planning boards, etc.), or the professional communities (hospital conferences, church conferences, etc.). This is the realm of the marketing partner.</p>

<p>2) Building type expertise; here you have designed the buildings that an owner admires and so they want you to design their building. In a museum project this might be purely the quality of your design portfolio, for a lab building it might be a unique technical challenge that you have mastered. In most cases this expertise will not win you the job outright, it will just get you onto a shortlist of firms so you can then interview or compete for the project.</p>

<p>3) Design competitions; you submit a design for either an invited competition (a small group of invited firms), or an open competition (anybody can enter) and the owner selects the schemes he likes the most. Sometimes you get a small stipend, sometimes you don’t. This is very common in Asia and Europe, not as common in the U.S. This is a very expensive way to procure work, but it can give young firms a better shot at unseating a large established firm.</p>

<p>Particularly in todays economy, thinking about how to get our next job occupies at least 50% of my waking thoughts (and I am not the marketing principal). That is just the reality of our profession; we live from project to project.</p>

<p>rick</p>

<p>Thank you so much, rick. All your explanation are very helpful. Now, I have a better understanding about arch firms.
Besides Arch needed because of gov regulations, It seems to me that Arch is pretty much for the upscale market. So it makes a lot of sense that when the economy is bad, arch gets negatively impacted.
Good luck to you finding new projects. And, again thanks so much for all the great info!</p>