Match DD24 4.0/1460 seeking merit and a motivated student body

Chance Me / Match Me!
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There are smart and motivated kids at every college, but there are differences in proportion and culture. There are some schools where I wouldn’t want my kids to attend because of a prevailing or dominant ethos, even though there are certainly smart and motivated kids at those schools.

The schools I would eliminate aren’t directly correlated with admit rate, though, so while I think her concern about finding fit has some validity she needs to refocus the concern by measuring it through a different metric than ranking/admit rate/selectivity.

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Not ASU but U of Arizona (Tucson) where the 4.0 gets you $32K off the $40K tuition and the Honors program is solid and dorm unreal.

OSU does have merit but it’s over $57K COA - so again, $35K likely not plausible. Also, not plausible but maybe less and also big city, UMN.

If you have a budget, it’s ok to apply to schools that may but likely won’t hit budget). But you really need to apply to schools that “will” hit - and that’s Arizona, Alabama, maybe Kansas, and some more. Florida State close enough.

Few are like Ohio State - massive and near the big city (in the city but near the downtown). ASU comes to mind as similar and you can get close to $35K but not quite. UCF might be another to look at. And Texas A&M although it’s not near the downtown.

Purdue is large population wise- but not as sprawling as OSU- and hasn’t raised tuition in more than a decade. It’s full COA is very low 40s - and merit, while not probable, is possible. It’s a strong b school, especially on the operations side. But it’s not near the big city like OSU but it’s in a town.

Regardless of what your daughter wants, the first thing is budget.

If it’s $35K, then it’s $35K. It doesn’t matter that she has “concerns” about a school. You can’t send her to a school that you can’t or don’t want to afford.

So yes, OSU is a fair one to apply - but she needs significant aid - whereas there are some schools like a Bama and U of Arizona and Penn State and others that will 100% hit the target.

If you’re going to be flexible, it’s fine - and you can do so. But if you are worried about perceived value or your retirement or making ends meet, then you have to draw the line.

PS - my kids both chose safeties over reaches. They chose them because after visiting, they loved them.

In the end, do you think someone cares (an employer) if you go to - since she’s looking at rankings - #49 Ohio State, #77 Penn State, #105 Oregon or #151 Nebraska. No one cares.

As I showed you with Bama and the NM Scholars, no one has more. So there are smart kids - EVERYWHERE.

Your daughter shouldn’t conflate a made up rank with quality. I’m not saying UNC or UVA or Michigan don’t have stronger students, etc. because they do - but the opportunities are everywhere or companies wouldn’t be hiring grads from these schools year after year.

And in the end, there are tradeoffs.

Your daughter is outstanding academically. That gets her money. You’ve got a budget. So it allows her to go to college.

If she had a 3.6 and 1260 and you had a 35K budget, outside a Millersville or West Chester, she wouldn’t be going to college at all.

Check into affordable colleges, their Honors Programs and other special programs - such as at Bama they have Randall Research and Blount Scholars. Other schools may have similar enrichmment or learning living communities.

US News rankings aren’t the real world but they do create peer pressure in school. But your daughter has to look past as you have financial concerns.

If you “waffle” right now - then just raise the budget because it will show you won’t have the discipline to not cave in - and I get it - it’s tough to say no to a daughter.

I’m a full pay dad and set a $50K budget.

So acceptances like Washington & Lee, UMD, American, Miami and more - were throw out.

If you chase merit - you need the:

Will make budget schools - which I only see Penn State and you need two unless you’re 100% sold on Penn State. U of Arizona, Alabama and others fit.

Possible to make budget and a likelihood of money - Pitt and Miami. A Florida State, U of SC, SUNY B, Arizona State could work here. You need a few here.

Those two - especially the top category - are the most important schools on your list.

Then you can do the - I’ll apply but I know they’re highly unlikely to get me there - and again, I’m using $35K - IU, OSU, SCU, Syracuse, UMass, UMD, Tulane, Southern Cal.

These are sort of your dream schools - really most likely a waste but since you shoot for the stars.

But you really have to decide on your financial flexibility. If you really want to chase merit and with good quality schools, there is a right way.

But part of it is saying no to the student - and the earlier you do that, the better off you’ll be. It literally has to be - we come in at this cost (whether you decided 35K or 55K)- or even with an acceptance, it can’t happen - so they know!!! My kid knew right away as she got offers - yep, not going to American. Yep, not going to UMD. W&L at $81K - and no money. Dad not paying. She crossed them off on her excel.

U of Denver at $43K - maybe. UF at full pay. Possibly. U of SC- at $30K - I can go as it’s under budget. Charleston, which she chose - at the time was $40K even though she got more money after accepting - it was in budget so yep. Those and others all made the cut.

Best of luck.

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Sounds like your daughter and you are in a good headspace regarding the process. And OSU OOS does fall within your higher price point, so sounds like she has a good safety in terms of price and admission chances. As long as you are happy to pay $55k a year if it comes to that. Looks like merit consideration means applying by November 1st there.

If she would be happy to attend OSU, she can stretch to try to her hand for any reaches that appeal.

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One of my DC has similar parameters and stats. We have considered some of the same schools. Mine won’t be applying to all of these for various reasons, and not all are guaranteed to give enough merit, but some more we’ve looked at include:

Loyola Marymount (Loyola Chicago might be worth a look also.)
Elon
U Denver
American University
San Diego State University
University of San Diego
TCU
SMU
Colorado State University

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My daughter (graduated HS in 2019) had the exact same stats and ended up well below the $35K budget at MiamiOH, UDel, and IIRC she was right around there (maybe 35-38K) at UMass and UConn as well. Pitt and PSU are both going to hit around there just with in state tuition but they are both pretty stingy on merit (my son had way higher stats, applied to Pitt for Fall 22 admission, and got diddly squat for merit although he was in comp sci, which I believe gives very little merit to begin with.) Be aware that both Pitt and PSU get more expensive once you reach your junior year -they have a tiered level of tuition based on the class standing and sometimes major, so look into that if the budget is tight.

That said, let me put in a plug for MiamiOH. DD just graduated from there in May. She ended up triple majoring and was a member of the honors program but did not win the Presidential Fellowship or whatever it is that gets you the completely free ride. Her out of state costs with merit for the first two years (when you are paying the inflated dorm room and board charges) were about 28K. After she moved off campus, that number dropped significantly - I’d guess we were closer to 23K all in. She is nerdy and not at all preppy and was able to find her people. She did undergraduate research starting her freshman year, ended up winning a prestigious national fellowship in her junior year, and I’m currently typing this from her new city apartment where she will start at one of the top PhD programs in her field next week. She had absolutely no problem finding academic peers and was plenty challenged by her coursework. Honestly I truly believe that in an environment where not everyone is crazy competitive, it is much easier to stand out and get noticed by professors who then offer opportunities that lead to other opportunities and ultimately lead to very successful outcomes. DD was STEM, not business, but I know Miami is famous for their business school and DD has several friends who ended up getting great job offers before they had even graduated. Rankings and admissions stats definitely do not show the true picture. Be sure she applies for the honors program as the benefits are significant (early registration, funded grants for research, exclusive housing with other honors students, etc.)

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100x this.

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Agreed with Miami. And they don’t raise tuition each year. Note the published merit levels are much lower than padt years. Two years ago when my daughter applied it was at least 20 something thousand. Today it’s at least 15k for a 4.3 weighted.

With a $56.5k COA, $35k isn’t assured. Agreed that costs can be reduced off campus. And it could get there up front - just not assured.

I would wonder though, if the student loves OSU how’d they feel about Miami. We visited after acceptance. I loved it. Seemed like a large William & Mary. My daughter took it out from consideration on the spot. Just too rural for her

But on paper, Miami has great merit, fixed for four year tuition, and Farmer is strong. I imagine less Greek pressure since the sororities house in dorms. And according to the tour guide - the best green goddess dressing EVER. not sure why that stuck with me.

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You/she will have to think whether it’s worth it to attend tOSU for business if she gets into Schreyer at PSU or Frederick at Pitt, especially if tOSU is more expensive. Then again, Farmer at MiamiOH is as good as or better than Fischer or Smeal.

What about Fordham? UMN TC has already been mentioned but what about St Thomas in the Twin cities? Marist in Nys?

Seconding DePaul, Marquette, SUNY Bing.

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I took her to visit Miami and she was not excited about it as we approached due to its rural location and the fact that it’s not in that other, more exciting Miami down south lol. However we had tours with the art school and business school. Once she saw the art studio spaces she was in love. And the business school was lovely as well and has a lot to offer academically. By the time we left she said she’s definitely applying there, but as time has passed she’s once again becoming concerned about the location. Additionally, as a minority student, she is concerned about feeling out of place as there isn’t as much ethnic/cultural diversity compared to OSU. However, out of all the art schools we toured, Miami’s was by far the nicest as far as facilities goes so that is a big selling point for her. I think it will end up being a difficult decision.

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She’s currently working on her Schreyer application and it’s a lot of work for an unlikely admission. It is so competitive and one thing they look for is leadership experience which is an area in which she’s really lacking. At Pitt they told her there isn’t a huge advantage to being in the honors program unless she wants to do research. Students can enroll in honors classes without being in the honors program. The admissions person at Pitt said it’s nothing like Schreyer, which is a whole other breed. So she is unlikely to apply to Frederick. OSU seems to offer a variety of scholars/honors programs so she’s still sorting out which she is going to apply for. Plus OSU had decent art studio spaces, we were given a personal tour. Pitt’s studio spaces were the most disappointing!

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Regarding SUNY Binghamton - this one fell off of our radar after we were told that the admission rate for OOS residents is around 8% and thus merit is unlikely - is this not true?

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I was told that they are trying to increase their OOS students. Every OOS student I know has received merit (note: I only know a handful, but they all received merit).

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Didn’t realize about art. If likes business, art and, city have you looked at VCU. I don’t think you can get to $35k but I do think you’d be in the next tier potentially.

It’s very diverse with well over 10% Asian per CDS.

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My daughter got enough merit from Suny Bing to bring it below in state Rutgers.

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Thanks we did look at VCU way back when. We’ll have to look again, I can’t remember why it didn’t make the list. How does your D like COFC? Mine loved it when we visited, but the diversity component had her concerned. The tour guide told us they are a PWI (primarily white institution) and it’s been difficult to change despite admissions efforts.

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Most important for Schreyer is academic excellence and the essays. These essays aren’t read by adcoms but by the Schreyer professors who wonder, Do I want this kid in my seminar next year? What would s/he bring to the discussion ? Do they “sound”, thoughtful, well-read, enthusiastic about learning?
Schreyer is one of the best Honors programs in the country so it’s hard for most honors colleges to match that, but Frederick would provide a community and opportunities. If she doesn’t like it, she can just drop it after a year, and the application is far from being as onerous as Schreyer’s.

Bing IS trying to increase its OOS presence and is thus offering scholarships ro worthy OOS applicants, which I’m willing to bet would include your daughter. I think it’s worth a shot.

American would be a great match and their B-school is state-of-the-art, with one day a week dedicated to externships that students can have in DC. The issue is cost.

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Who told you the admission rate is 8%? I can’t find it on line but it seems highly unlikely.

They were very aggressive marketing wise to my daughter. It’s got a significant Asian population (near 2500 of a bit more than 14000) and if CDS is right, 95% go TO.

It’s not an easy in - but 8% seems low. I’d call admissions and double check that.

You asked about C of C - I’m a bit confused - she loves OSU - so I might look at UCF - huge, near the big city (Orlando in this case), UCF has a COA of $39280 (for this year) and you’d get merit.

I get not loving Miami - but C of C is a tiny dot compared to OSU - but it is in the city. No clue about the arts.

So my daughter - we visited after LSU (liked a lot but didn’t apply) and Tulane (she thought it was dumpy). Our third and fourth visit of probably 25-30 schools total was U of SC and then C of C. I knew - the minute we left C of C - that’s where she’d be - even though she had me take her all over.

So my daughter got into a lot of higher rates schools - similar to those you’re looking at - and initially her concern about Charleston was the seriousness of the students. I would say this based on who I met - the kids I’ve met are serious but there is definitely a huge party element - where isn’t there. But my daughter is in the Fellows Program - it’s a subset in Honors - and I suspect your student would have the opportunity to interview for this as well. One issue budget wise - and I think it was because my daughter didn’t earn the spot initially (was an alternate) but her cost was higher when we accepted but after accepting, she was awarded a few endowed scholarships which cover tuition. Charleston as a ctiy is very pricey - so in Tuscaloosa, I spent $700 a month in rent. In Charleston, double.

I’m guessing by the #s - that C of C doesn’t = PSU, OSU, etc. But the Fellows definitely does and I’m guessing Honors does. My daughter’s best friend on campus turned down Rice, Vandy, and Penn to attend. My daughter’s classes (regular) are small - and rigorous. She’s had a free May Away, met with ambassadors and others (she’s a poli sci and intl studies major) and is partaking in the DC semester which is run by U of SC - and I met her roommates this week and all are very impressive - from the U of SC Honors College - another good budget school and the top intl bus school or undergrads.

Not sure that we know what your daughter’s sub discipline is?

So my daughter LOVES it - but again, it’s 180 degrees different than Ohio State. I don’t know anything about art studios - but Charleston is decidedly a historic campus - nothing modern.

40 of 2210 first year were Asian - 1725 of 2210 are white. I’m surprised by that based on what I’ve seen but I see who my daughter is around.

Since I brought it up - because it’s urban but bigger, U of SC was 273 out of 6574 so a higher percentage Asian with 4893 white. It’s the top rated Honors College (there’s a few of those) and #1 in IB.

I mentioned Arizona before - it’s large campus and in a city - it’s a FANTASIC SCHOOL nad a merit chaser’s dream when someone like your daughter is the student.

Out of 9,069 first year, 496 are Asian and 4556 are white. It has a large hispanic population plus a sizable black and non-resident population.

Since I mentioned UCF (sprawling and large), 3712 of 7500 are white - 707 of 7512 are Asian. And it’s likely within budget after merit (at $35K). I had mentioned FSU earlier - 265 of 6,030 first year are Asian with 3569 of 6030 white. It’s another likely to hit the low budget.

Just trying to keep you within that desire.

Charleston Fellows Program - College of Charleston (cofc.edu)

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I would consider adding Vanderbilt to your reach list. They give a number of full tuition scholarships. It takes an extra essay and application is due earlier - I think Dec. 1 - but check. My daughter got one, with very similar stats (she did not submit test scores) and almost did not apply because she thought she would never get it. Also, they do not have direct admit to business schools - but lots of business opportunity and great placement after graduation. Lots of motivated students, with a culture of balance and fun - a lots of art and arts opportunities as well.

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Since you are a PA resident, Temple seems like a good fit - business and art (I’m not into art, though I understand they have a respected program). We are in PA, and youngest applied to Temple (for nursing). She had 3.5uw, 3.77w, 1480 SAT (740/740), and they gave her $10K/yr in merit.

She didn’t go there, and changed her mind on the nursing, but it would have been the cheapest option for us. While we would have had her live on campus, we live within walking distance of a train station, and the last stop is on Temple’s campus (so would be even cheaper if she commuted).

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I took her to visit Miami and she was not excited about it as we approached due to its rural location and the fact that it’s not in that other, more exciting Miami down south lol. However we had tours with the art school and business school. Once she saw the art studio spaces she was in love. And the business school was lovely as well and has a lot to offer academically. By the time we left she said she’s definitely applying there, but as time has passed she’s once again becoming concerned about the location. Additionally, as a minority student, she is concerned about feeling out of place as there isn’t as much ethnic/cultural diversity compared to OSU. However, out of all the art schools we toured, Miami’s was by far the nicest as far as facilities goes so that is a big selling point for her.

I know that Miami seems very rural but it is actually only about 45 mins from Cincinnati. My D and her friends went to the city all the time to do stuff – if you have a car (or a friend with a car - and as an out of state freshman she’d be allowed to bring one her first year), smaller cities like Hamilton are only 20 minutes away and everything Cinci offers can be reached in under an hour. I will grant you that the ethnic diversity at Miami seems a bit lacking although my D had friends from all backgrounds. And your assessment of the facilities is correct - all of the facilities and the whole campus (landscaping, buildings, etc.) are super nice and Miami keeps everything up very well - one of the reasons my D chose it in the first place. The dorms at Miami are palatial compared to what my DS has at his university.

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