Match me/ Chance me: S24, KY resident, 4.0 GPA, 35 ACT Poli Sci/ History- need more match schools

Chance Me / Match Me!
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We have the “reach schools” and safeties, but need more “matches”.

Demographic: SE USA, current senior, US Citizen
State of Residency: Kentucky
High School: Large, rural public high school
Intended Major: Political Science/ History (or Physics) Double Major
GPA: Unweighted- 4.0, Weighted- 4.286
Class Rank: 25 of 388 (High school weights dual credit classes higher than APs)
Courses: All honors and APs. AP scores all 5s with one 4. Wide variety with social studies, English/ Lit, STEM, and Spanish.
ACT: 35 composite
Awards: State Governor’s Scholars Program, McConnell Center Young Leaders Program, etc.
EC: Symphony violinist, representative for K-12 students state-wide on board to create new recognition program for social studies via the State Board of Education, very active in model UN and model state government, Y-Club leadership, NHS leadership, Beta Club, school ambassador, etc.
Essays: Strong with good LORs
Schools: Reach- UChicago, Brown, Yale, UPENN
Safety- University of Kentucky, Western Kentucky University
**Kiddo wants to attend a mid-sized liberal arts college in/ near a large metropolitan area. Preferably in the Northeast or outside Chicago.

As a mom, I’m curious as to how much of a “reach” his top schools are. The safeties are easy as he should get full rides to either one due to attending the Governor’s Scholars Program, however has little interest in either. What do you suggest for solid mid-sized match schools with good PoliSci programs that fit his pre-reqs in location?

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Brandeis, Clark, Holy Cross, Fordham, BU, American?

What’s your budget?

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The reaches are all very reachy, even for the most qualified applicants. If he applied to U of Chicago ED, that could help some.

As far as match schools:
American and George Washington come to mind immediately for someone interested in Poly Sci although in DC, not NE.
Brandeis

If he wouldn’t be happy with the instate options, IMO, those aren’t good safeties.

DePaul in Chicago would be a safety, as would Loyola. He should see merit money at both.

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With all of the reach schools have sub-10% acceptance rates, they are high reaches for all unhooked applicants. Your son sounds great, and has a shot, but those reaches have way way more tippy top students applying then they have spots for, so they reject way more fantastic applicants like your son then they can accept. So, he has a shot, but it’s very possible he gets rejected from all of them.

For recommendations, what does “mid-sized” mean to your son? I’m assuming that excludes all of the excellent small LACs in the Northeast, ie, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, etc. So, by mid-sized liberal arts college, he’s seeking a mid-sized university that has a “college of arts and sciences” or something similar with a strong poli sci program? Does he prefer a more traditional college campus, or is he OK with a more urban campus?

Colleges that come to mind, assuming no small LACs and depending on what he’s seeking, are:

Boston College
Tufts
Northeastern
Boston University
Fordham
NYU
George Washington
American
Temple
DePaul
Loyola

Of those, BC, Tufts, BU, Northeastern, and NYU are still reaches, but lower reaches than the four on the original list.

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Based on your son’s interest in political science, some of these colleges may be of interest:

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So I am kinda a broken record on this issue, but I will note that it makes this question of good target/matches a lot harder on kids when they apply a strict location filter that is basically selecting for only the most popular few college markets.

The basic problem is so many other kids are doing the same thing, looking for good backup options after the reachy-reaches in the most popular college markets. And while there are a lot of such colleges in those markets, they still all get flooded with applications. And that is when they plausibly start doing things like yield protecting, aka Tufts Syndrome, meaning rejecting high numbers kids in RD when they think there is very little chance they will actually enroll.

And so then high numbers kids start strategically EDing to colleges which are not actually their top choice, which is all rather unfortunate in my mind. But arguably it isn’t a bad idea when you are just trying to get into some decent college in one of these extremely popular locations for college.

But you can actually opt out of all that just by adding in some great peer colleges that are not in the most popular few markets. For example, colleges like Rochester, William & Mary, or Wake Forest can be great “target” universities for people with diverse academic interests and who like Ivy+ type colleges like the ones on your list. And they have plenty of spaces left after ED, and they happily admit high numbers kids for those spaces and then fight for them. Indeed, they all offer merit to help them do that.

Which doesn’t mean you ONLY have to apply to such colleges. But if you have even 2-3 of those on your list, it really takes the pressure off in terms of all your other non-likely colleges either being reachy-reaches or possible Tufts Syndrome yield-protectors. And then you can do things like ED I/REA at your favorite college, ED II at your then-remaining favorite college, and so on, and still have a great layer of options above your likelies if none of that works out.

So personally, I would strongly urge your kid to consider applying to some colleges like that. Unfortunately, the full scholarship deadline for Wake Forest is coming up on 11/15, but that same deadline is not until 12/1 for Rochester, and there is no such deadline for William & Mary. And there are other examples of colleges that fit into this category, those are just some of the ones that seem to me to be pretty obvious fits for your S24.

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Your reaches are extremely reachy.

Some schools that come to mind are American, George Washington, BU, BC, Northeastern, Washington & Lee. Saw some people saying Brandeis but it’s a love/hate school for a lot and not a universal match, so look into it a bit more. BU, BC, and Northeastern are probably target-reaches.

A few extra reaches to consider would be Cornell, Georgetown, and Northwestern (Cornell is a bit bigger but.) Still very reachy though…

Also, there aren’t too many “mid-sized” liberal arts college near or in a large metro area. And none of the schools on your list fit that criteria – they’re research institutions. (Maybe you have the idea of a LAC wrong?)

UChicago is an unlikely for RD. Their RD acceptance rate is around 2%. Applying ED or ED2 would bring it up to a reachy reach. Same goes with Brown, Yale and UPenn.

GL.

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My sense from the OP’s reach list is they mean the mid-sized non-tech-focused liberal arts and sciences colleges embedded in research universities.

So, Yale College is such a college. Penn’s College of Arts and Sciences is such a college. The College at Brown is such a college, as is The College at Chicago. And so on.

These are sometimes distinguished from “small LACs” aka SLACs. Although I prefer the term “independent” LACs to indicate they are not part of a much larger research university. Although some actually do have limited grad programs and are called universities–it gets confusing.

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I got that sense. Just warning the OP that it can cause confusion.

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Why?

As long as you have one school that you can afford and would be happy to attend, then you’re good.

No one needs all buckets.

He doesn’t need WKU. Let me ask you this - would you attend the reach over the full ride? Don’t know your budget but you are talking about nearly $400K.

Matches - I agree with many above - the Holy Cross, GW, American…you can add Denver (but more of a safety) or an Occidental, etc. A Lehigh could work. William & Mary is possible as would be UMD, UF, U Wisconsin for bigger schools that would be a “match”.

But first is budget - and second is, if full pay, are you willing to break the budget - if you can go free - for a poli sci degree at the undergrad level?

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There’s not a single school on the OP’s list which is a “universal match” so obviously, the kid needs to look into every single school! Washington & Lee in particular- very love/hate.

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Fair, and I agree about W&L. And honestly same might go for BC depending on your views of its Jesuit education.

I guess that was a dumb comment. I just said it based on my personal experience – many students love Brandeis, and just as many would rather go anywhere else. That polarity feels a bit more prevalent for Brandeis than schools like BU.

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Not a dumb comment- we should make t-shirts for everyone saying “do your own research!”

And I agree with you on BU. Lots of kids don’t like the physical campus but end up loving the school anyway…

:slight_smile:

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Why?

Perhaps because the student is very academically accomplished, and doesn’t want to end up at their state flagship with a 95% acceptance rate? Because with the current list, there’s a good chance that’s where they’re headed. Also, the OP mentions her son “has little interest in attending either.”

I’m not trying to push down University of Kentucky, and I understand financial considerations are key. But most students would agree that they’d rather not go to a safety school.

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Thanks for your reply! He applied EA to UChicago and EA to UK (required for their Honors College and merit scholarships). Is applying RD to the others. We have toured Brandeis and he unfortunately wasn’t a fan. Will check out Loyola and DePaul!

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The point being - one doesn’t need a “match”.

One needs - a school - that:

  1. they can afford

  2. they’d love to attend

If it’s not these two (UK, WKU), it’s fine - but it doesn’t have to be a match. Maybe it’s another safety, etc…is all I’m saying.

One doesn’t need to fill up buckets per se.

The student wants to be in a mid size in the NE or outside Chicago - so there’s a limit to schools.

Maybe it’s a U Del or U Pitt - both safeties but both excellent.

Maybe it’s a College of Charleston where the student might get the Fellows (safety for admission, reach for Fellows). It’s not the NE but loaded with NE kids.

Maybe it’s a Syracuse or smaller - Rochester. Binghamton, etc. but given the desires it’s hard to come up with some. Many mentioned are smaller schools vs mid size. Lehigh is another that comes to mind.

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Yeah, haha! So true, research is key. At the end of the day, we’re all anonymous users giving advice on this site. Who knows, maybe I’m a middle schooler who thinks Brandeis is in the Bahamas :joy:

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Did you apply ED anywhere?

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Fair, and I agree.

From my experience, I’ve just seen that there are some kids who just can’t convince themselves to be happy at a safety. I know it makes no sense, but it’s the reality that I’ve seen countless times. Which is why I’m suggesting the creation of a more balanced list.

But yes, financial concerns are definitely key.

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Thanks for your reply! Mid-sized means about 6,500-9,000 undergraduates. He isn’t comfortable at schools like Amherst (honestly the worst college visit we had and we’ve had many!) and likewise isn’t comfortable at large schools like Cornell. The focus on “liberal arts” is indeed a program with either a school with a college of arts and sciences, having a strong political sciences program or literally a LAC. He definitely prefers a more traditional college campus (not a fan of Columbia), though urban is ok.