Match Me - PA resident for English + History, PoliSci & Music. Classical vocalist spike. 3.6/33

Chance Me / Match Me!
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As a Wesleyan alum, I think I can honestly say she’ll find challenging humanities programs everywhere. My main thoughts were centered around the social advantages of a tolerant and accepting student body plus the fact that she wouldn’t have to live in a traditional dormitory her entire time - and as soon as I wrote that sentence, I realized, “Wait a minute. Maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree - she probably would prefer the structure and separateness of a traditional dormitory.” Planning a fondue party/cooking for herself and/or others. Cleaning a bathroom? I don’t see it.

I’d be the first to admit that Wesleyan isn’t for everybody, and I accepted the initial post’s verdict that she had an “irrational dislike” for it. Likewise, I agree with everyone who said she’s entitled to her judgements no matter how precious or piquant. Or, mean-spirited.

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While I agree with much of this, I think the 3.6 GPA makes Wesleyan a high reach. ETA so the housing is a moot point.

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In terms of the academic criteria as conveyed by the OP, Reed’s classroom environment, at least, might represent a desirable archetype:

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She might enjoy reading about Howard Garnder and his theory of multiple intelligences, which has had some influence on teaching strategies, mostly k-12. I would encourage her not to look down on approaches intended for different learning styles. That said, she certainly can try to avoid them in her college search. Very understandable.

I actually would love to hear where she lands: I am curious what campuses she finds that have the kind of intellectualism she craves. U of Chicago and Swarthmore come to mind but those are reaches. I actually think an honors college at a public university might be a good match.

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She is looking for a much bigger college student body. While St. John’s sounds amazing, she also wants the full college experience and not to be at a school smaller than her HS, which wasn’t very big at all.

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Can you list the colleges that you’ve been able to investigate so far and think work?
:+1:

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Also, if you could share which ones have been crossed off, that would be helpful, too.

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I totally understand.

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I hear ya - I have a similar one! (I remember trying to find something challenging but not too stressful.)

Sounds like you are doing everything right - you guys will figure it out!

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And we have mural! Sort of:

image
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Vibrant street art near Wesleyan to honor Beman abolitionists (middletownpress.com)

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Sorry to disappear - travel and work and presseason starting means ugh! Anyway, to follow up on the many wonderful suggestions you all have made, and my thoughts about them, because you asked and because it’s helpful for me to have it in one place:

Geographical Undesirables

  • St. Olaf, Iowa State, Lawrence, Kansas, WVU, Dayton
  • Most PA Schools: Temple, Lafayette, West Chester, Millersville, Muhlenberg - does not want to stay in PA (and def not in philly area), if she can avoid it - even Bryn Mawr is a no for her. She’ll apply to Penn (on basis of the strength of their Eng and History depts, and her legacy status though that seems of limited use in the current environment) and will apply to Pitt early bc they do rolling admission and she can tolerate Pittsburgh as its far enough away as to feel foreign to her.

Liked and Looking At
Conn College - likes a lot
Trinity - likes this too
Skidmore - very positive reaction to it, added to our list
Vassar - on her list already
College of Charleston - added to our list, loves Charleston, will drop depending on some EA outcomes.

Did not Like
Fordham - not interested
Hartford - not interested
Maine - too remote
Sarah Lawrence - too unstructured and liberal for her I think
Ithaca - can’t do it because has family at Cornell and would not want to be that close and at less prestigious of two schools - we’ll see, I think it could be a reasonable solid/safety
College of NJ - meh
Mount Holyoke - likes Smith better, which is already on her list

So since we started this thread, she has come to conclude that she probably does not want to dual degree at a conservatory school because there is so much more academic work she is insterested in, but she definitely wants to keep singing as a key part of her college experience. So we are back to focusing on great schools with terrific English departments (she has 4.0 uw in all honors and AP english classes, 5 on AP Lang, and 35/36 on Reading/English for ACT).

As Yale is her dream, given its strength in her two favorite subjects, history and English, plus proximity to the music school, we are back to applying REA there (I can live with it, so that any rejection there will come early and won’t keep her from using ED2 at another school - if she gets deferred is when we may have trouble as I know she will keep it on lifesupport and possibly miss out on other viable alternatives). We realized the “Yale question” (waiting to see if she won the lottery) would keep her from using an ED option at another school on the “very” off chance that she got into Yale. NW was the only place she was willing to do that with, and moving away from dual degree makes that less attractive.
She will apply early to all the schools she can under the restrictions of Yale’s EA:

Early Action/Rolling Admission Schools
Pitt - she’ll apply in the next 30-60 days to get some peace of mind
UNC Chapel Hill
UVA
Michigan
Wisconsin
St. Andrews, Scotland
Univ of Edinburg, Scotland
UMD - College Park
UMass-Amherst (this is her “highly likely” preference at the moment because it puts her in a great college town, near a great college city, and part of the 5 schools consortium).

Then, depending on what results we get from that process, she may ED2 (applying RD to others) at one of: Tufts, Vanderbilt, W&M, Emory, or Johns Hopkins. If she’s unsuccessful with the majority of the competitive EA schools, she may ED2 to W&M, skip the bottom 5, along with JHU and Vandy, and just focus on her Target/Highly Likely list plus Tufts and Emory.

Target/Hard Target
BU
Boston College
Barnard
Rochester
Smith
Vassar
Wesleyan - you all convinced me it should be on our list - and I"m interested in preserving options for her.

If unsuccessful with EA schools, these schools may come into play with RD
Connecticut College and/orTrinity College
Lehigh
Richmond (though descriptions of the environment as “toxic” give me pause)
Emerson
Skidmore
American - she likes this as a safety but I don’t think they offer her much by way of what she’s interested in.
College of Charleston -

She may also apply regular decision to these schools (lack of success with EA state schools may change that however):
Lottery Schools
U Penn
Harvard
Northwestern
Brown
Wash U - St Louis

So we’re planning to front load the system, and then see how things pan out, pivoting as necessary.

If you have any other good suburban/urban schools for Eng/History majors that you think we should consider, please let me know!

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Wow - that’s a lot of schools.

The only thing I’d add is - looking at your list and planning to apply to RD if EA doesn’t pan out - make sure you understand when EA decisions will come.

They may not come in time for RD. Each school should give you a timeline. I know some don’t come until the next year.

I would rank your schools - because you have 20 slots - to ensure you truly apply to the top 20 (with a few affordable safeties mixed in as well).

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I appreciate the fun of this. Just came here to say, in case it was needed, that that statement was, of course, hyperbolic and designed to communication irritation with nontraditional assignments designed to “engender interest” for those who cannot dig straight into the subject matter and engage in a direct manner with it. In those circumstances, my girl is both frustrated by the sideways approach as well as irritated at doing art when she didn’t sign up for an art class. She grew up in an extended family of professional argument makers so I appreciate her frustration and desire to engage directly with the subject matter… but well done you on finding that photo!

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BU, BC, Barnard, Vassar and Wesleyan are reaches.

I would apply to Pitt by the end of September, not the end of October.

I agree with the others that this is a lot of schools. It is unlikely she will hear from any of her EA schools (besides Yale SCEA) before most RD apps are due.

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Is she still a 3.6/.7 with these ACT scores?

33 Superscore ACT (35 English, 36 Reading, 30 Math and 30 Science)

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Thanks for coming back and giving us an update!

Excluding the schools quoted below, these are my guesses as to your daughter’s chances for admissions to the schools on your list:

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Pitt

Likely (60-79%)

  • U. of Maryland
  • U. of Massachusetts

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Rochester
  • Wisconsin

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Michigan
  • Smith (leaning towards toss-up)
  • William & Mary

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Barnard
  • Boston College
  • BU
  • Emory
  • Johns Hopkins
  • Tufts
  • UNC-Chapel Hill
  • UVA
  • Vanderbilt
  • Vassar (leaning towards lower probability)
  • Wesleyan
  • Yale

No Clue

  • St. Andrews
  • U. of Edinburgh

Many of the colleges on your list, particularly the low and lower probability privates, have extensive essay expectations for each of their applications. For the sake of argument, let’s say there are about 3 essays/school. How would your D feel after writing 30 or so essays, on top of all of her regular schoolwork and extracurriculars? Of course, the list of schools she would add on later (if successful or unsuccessful with her EA apps) would mean even more essays to write.

You don’t have to answer these questions publicly, but I’d urge you to discuss them with your family members and health care professionals:

  • What do you think would be the impact on your daughter’s mental health if she were to receive a number of rejections or waitlists?

  • Do your D’s health professionals think it wise to be within a certain distance (physically or travel-time wise) of your daughter? If so, do all of these schools fit within that radius?

I will say that if I had similar concerns about my child’s mental health, I would want the majority of applications to be in the toss-up or a likely category.

If this is how your D feels about Ithaca, how would she feel if she’s accepted to U. of Maryland or U. of Massachusetts but is not in their honors program? From what I have read, it is very competititve to get into those honors programs, so there would be a good chance she would be in “regular” classes. At U. of Maryland, 46.4% of classes have fewer than 20 students, 36.9% have between 20-49, and 16.7% have more than 50 students. At. U. Mass 45.5% of classes have fewer than 20 students, 36.1% have between 20-49, and 18.3% have 50+. How would she feel about the larger class sizes?

ETA: Forgot about the EA app to Yale. Added that to the Low Probability category.

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I think, with a lot of these “reach” schools, he student would have to apply TO - which could also hurt.

The 30 math and science might do the student in if the GPA doesn’t plus the rigor (skimping on math but featuring humanities). While the English and reading scores are wonderful and I know OP wants to feature them, I’m not sure that would be wise (specific to reaches).

I think the unbalanced transcript will cause problems - and I might shoot for less reaches as you cull the list to realistically no more than 20 - unless you’re adding UCs or a Georgetown type that have their own apps.

Thoughts from others?

PS - when you noted UMD at 60% plus, I was actually thinking - with these #s - UMD is going to be tough. Not impossible - but maybe a bucket lower. Just a different perspective. 34% admission rate and a 33 ACT midpoint but 29 at 25th percent. They don’t show a GPA.

apps_ug.pdf (umd.edu)

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Thanks, I forgot about the continued drop in admit rate at UMD. Dataverse which aggregates data from CDS reports indicated that for Fall 2022 the EA acceptance rate was 60% while the RD acceptance rate was 38%, coming out to an average acceptance rate of 52% (source). As it’s always best to look at the data the university itself produced, I looked at its 2022 CDS, Section C, lines 27 & 28. I don’t see any breakdowns by EA vs. RD, but when I do the math, I’m getting a 44.5% overall acceptance rate, which does not align with the 34.3% that UMD produced in that PDF you linked to. All of that to say, is that some folks in institutional research need to get their numbers straight! But I could definitely see putting them in the toss-up bucket rather than the likely one.

But here’s some of the data according to UMD’s 2022 CDS:
ACT: 25th percentile was 31, 50th percentile was 33, 75th percentile was 34
ACT Math: 25th percentile was 28, 50th percentile was 31, 75th percentile was 34
ACT Reading: 25th percentile was 32, 50th percentile was 34, 75th percentile was 35

Breakdowns for the other ACT subjects were not given.

On the PDF you shared, I saw this for incoming freshman students, which is obviously for weighted GPAs:
image

This is the GPA info from the CDS:

image of GPA chart: C11 Percentage of all enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year students who had high school grade-point averages within each of the following ranges (using 4.0 scale). Report information only for those students from whom you collected high school GPA. Score Range Percent Percent who had GPA of 4.0 91.97% Percent who had GPA between 3.75 and 3.99 4.09% Percent who had GPA between 3.50 and 3.74 1.83% Percent who had GPA between 3.25 and 3.49 1.19% Percent who had GPA between 3.00 and 3.24 0.60% Percent who had GPA between 2.50 and 2.99 0.28% Percent who had GPA between 2.0 and 2.49 0.04% Percent who had GPA between 1.0 and 1.99 Percent who had GPA below 1.0 Totals should = 100% 100.00%
image of GPA chart: C11 Percentage of all enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year students who had high school grade-point averages within each of the following ranges (using 4.0 scale). Report information only for those students from whom you collected high school GPA. Score Range Percent Percent who had GPA of 4.0 91.97% Percent who had GPA between 3.75 and 3.99 4.09% Percent who had GPA between 3.50 and 3.74 1.83% Percent who had GPA between 3.25 and 3.49 1.19% Percent who had GPA between 3.00 and 3.24 0.60% Percent who had GPA between 2.50 and 2.99 0.28% Percent who had GPA between 2.0 and 2.49 0.04% Percent who had GPA between 1.0 and 1.99 Percent who had GPA below 1.0 Totals should = 100% 100.00%784×328 9.28 KB

Even though it says that it’s supposed to be using a 4.0 scale in the directions, my guess is that the university was using weighted GPAs. But less than 5% had below a 3.75GPA according to the CDS, whether weighted or unweighted. But CDS GPA calculations are always odd because universities don’t all calculate the GPAs in the same way.

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I hope she finds a school to her liking.

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From what you’ve said of your D on this thread, I could imagine creating a college list that looked something like this, based on the schools she is considering. I’ve listed the drive times from Philadelphia, assuming that you’re somewhere in the metro area. The Baltimore schools are the only ones that I added (mentioned above, but didn’t make the list of schools under consideration to apply to).

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Pitt: 5hrs
  • Loyola Maryland (or Goucher) – remember, there’s a consortium here that includes Johns Hopkins. Loyola is a Jesuit college, as BC is. 2h5m

Likely (60-79%)

  • American – only if she shows a lot of demonstrated interest, 2h53m
  • U. of Massachusetts: 4h51m

Toss-Up (40-59%)…and could eliminate her least favorite 2 from here, too.

  • Connecticut College: 4h19m
  • Lehigh: 1h26m
  • Rochester: 5h37m
  • Trinity: 4h4m
  • U. of Maryland: 2h35m

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Skidmore: 4h24m
  • Smith (leaning towards toss-up): 4h43m
  • William & Mary: 5h16m

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Yale EA: 3h41m

For every Lower Probability or Low Probability school, there is an equal number of schools in the Extremely Likely or Likely category, which can help temper any negative effects from rejections/waitlists. As a parent, I would lobby for at least one more likely/extremely likely option to help balance things out in case the toss-up schools decidedly didn’t go my kid’s way (perhaps a school like Moravian, a 9m drive away from Lehigh, so seemingly an okay area of PA and an extremely likely admit).

Obviously, this is a family decision and your D will be the one attending college. But the more time is spent focusing on schools with a low probability of acceptance, the higher the likelihood that your D might feel disappointed about attending any school with a higher chance of acceptance. And if she already has some emotional fragility from the shenanigans with the kids at her high school, a rough application season could be a hard setup for college.

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