<p>Hi,</p>
<p>How good is the Math program at UChicago? How big is the math population there?</p>
<p>Chicago, Harvard, Berkeley, Princeton,MIT, Stanford</p>
<p>are the elite math departments. To answer your question.</p>
<p>For undergraduate, MIT, Chicago, Princeton, and Harvard are the elite math departments. Add Berkeley and Stanford if you consider graduate school. I have inside information that Stanford will be the best undergraduate math department in a few years, but it has yet to flourish.</p>
<p>8% of students here are math majors. It's a pretty popular (and very difficult) major. At the very top, we have some of the best students in the nation. Last year, for example, we composed 1/5 of the incoming class to Harvard's graduate math program.</p>
<p>That's not as surprising to me, once you consider the status of Chicago's math department as "top," the number of majors here (considering we have a larger student body than Swarthmore, Caltech, and Mudd-- three other schools I would imagine have a lot of kids going to math grad school), and the overwhelming tendency here to when in doubt, go to grad school.</p>
<p>Do you know where the other students in Harvard's graduate math program come from and how that shakes out? Not that I think it's a definitive answer regarding "best" programs, but it's fun to look at numbers like these.</p>
<p>I don't think Harvard posts these online. The only reason I knew that 1/5 of the incoming class last year were Chicago students was because of: <a href="http://www.math.uchicago.edu/%7Emay/VIGRE/CollateStats.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VIGRE/CollateStats.pdf</a>. And, of course, the fact that 10 students matriculate to the Harvard program every year.</p>
<p>What I do know is that Harvard accepts 1-2 of its own students every year, and most top schools have about 1/4-1/2 of graduate students as internationals. Of the statistics I have seen from other top universities, it appears that Caltech, Chicago, Swarthmore, MIT, Harvard, and Princeton take up most of the spots, when considering only domestic students. However, it is very common to have 1-2 matriculations each year from less prestigious colleges.</p>
<p>The one place where I remember seeing graduate statistics is on Columbia's Graduate Math website:</p>
<p>Incoming</a> Class 2008
Incoming</a> Class 2007
Incoming</a> Class of 2006</p>
<p>It appears that 1/2-3/4 of Columbia's math graduate students are international!</p>
<p>Mudd sends ~ half of its math majors on to grad school, which ranks #3 (I believe, off the top of my head) among math programs. For the class of 2006, 19 went to grad school, 18 to jobs/other. For 2005, it was 14 to grad school, 10 to jobs/other. </p>
<p>Stanford, Princeton, Chicago, Caltech, MIT, Duke, UCLA, Wisconsin, Cornell are all among their destinations.
[url=<a href="http://www.math.hmc.edu/people/alumni/%5DPeople:">http://www.math.hmc.edu/people/alumni/]People:</a> Where Our Students Go<a href="1999-2006%20data">/url</a></p>
<p>OP, if you google Chicago math within CC, you'll find a number of threads discussing the math major, placement, etc. S applied to three of those six mentioned above, was accepted at two, and chose Chicago.</p>
<p>"For undergraduate, MIT, Chicago, Princeton, and Harvard are the elite math departments"</p>
<p>How do you know that? May I know your source?</p>
<p>Emm, try the US News rankings for the past 20 years, as well as the NRC rankings and other scholarly measures. Just search "good math programs" in cc</p>
<p>Wow, so fast! Impressive!
Em, I believe that rankings are for grad school and not ugrad.</p>
<p>Yep, but especially at top colleges, faculty will be the same at both levels. For example, Math 55 at Harvard, as well as Honors analysis at Chicago, are considered two of the toughest math freshman courses in the nation. That these schools also have elite math graduate programs is no coincidence.</p>
<p>Why did someone said Honors analysis at Chicago is on par to or harder than Harvard Math 55? I thought Math 55 is the hardest freshman course? And, what materials and books used for Honors Analysis?</p>
<p>S's mentor, a Harvard PhD, had no problem with S picking Chicago > MIT for math. Have seen several articles on Math 55 vs. Honors Analysis -- will try to find.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why did someone said Honors analysis at Chicago is on par to or harder than Harvard Math 55? I thought Math 55 is the hardest freshman course? And, what materials and books used for Honors Analysis?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is utter bull. I've seen Math 55 at Harvard, and the material is rather simple when compared to that of Honors Analysis. I only saw the material for one year of Harvard 55, and the course content could vary from year to year, but if the content is anything like the year I saw, there's really no comparison. Someone in the Harvard forum was bragging about how Harvard 55 is so advanced that it did L^p spaces this year. Wow, so advanced. We did that first quarter.</p>
<p>We use the following texts in Honors Analysis:</p>
<p>'Real Analysis' by H.L. Royden
'Introductory Real Analysis' by Kolmogorov/Fomin
'Calculus on Manifolds' by Michael Spivak
'Measure Theory and Fine Properties of Functions' by Lawrence C. Evans</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I'm actually just bitter how everyone thinks that Math 55 is THE hardest course in the nation. To be truthful, they're probably of similar difficulty, and I have evidence of this: I asked a professor who has taught at both Harvard and Chicago. He said that Honors Analysis is a 'more structured' version of Math 55. I also think we cover more advanced material, but whatever.</p>
<p>This was our first midterm, which was taken 3 weeks after the beginning of Autumn Quarter:</p>
<p>We had 50 minutes to complete it.</p>
<p>Some more good threads to read about top math departments/courses, etc.:</p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/515738-math-majors-chicago.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/515738-math-majors-chicago.html</a>
MathLinks</a> :: View topic - Is anyone taking math 55 at harvard this semester?
MathLinks</a> :: View topic - Exceptional Undergraduate Programs?</p>
<p>Why does having the most difficult freshman course even matter?</p>
<p>Well, it will make the best students attracted to take it (Indirectly make that place populated with the best students who share the same crazy interest-though I agree there are other factors too, you can't deny this is one of them-). I mean out of many colleges with math programs, which one stands out and special enough to make me choose it over any other programs out there? This is an imperative question for serious math major.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why does having the most difficult freshman course even matter?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It really doesn't matter to non-matriculating students, but it does serve as a prestige factor for those of us who have taken it. And yeah, what IAmYourMother! said is also true. Truly serious math students want a challenge - most math departments can't provide this due to either lack of student interest or lack of dedicated (and prominent) faculty to teach such a course. Chicago has Paul Sally, who is extremely interested in undergraduate education, and it also has the student interest to be able to generate such a demanding course.</p>
<p>I'm rather puzzled why some other math departments have not taken steps toward creating a similar program. Universities like MIT and Stanford have the resources, but for some reason are doing nothing. Most serious math students at MIT start out taking graduate courses because there are no courses like Honors Analysis/Math 55 there.</p>
<p>Well having difficult courses overall would then be important, not just a single course. You also have to factor into the idea that the number of courses you take at different colleges varies. If you have to take 5/6 classes at Caltech to get by compared to 4/5 at Chicago, then even if the overall curriculum at Caltech is harder, the individual classes at Chicago might not be. </p>
<p>Also, "difficulty" is determined by 2 things - the vastness of the material covered/tested and the quality of the professors. Often times it can be the latter that dominates. </p>
<p>I mean out of many colleges with math programs, which one stands out and special enough to make me choose it over any other programs out there? This is an imperative question for serious math major.</p>
<p>It is also a question that has a different answer for every 'serious math major.' If you want to go the most prestigious undergraduate math program in the nation, the Princeton is probably your bet. However, if say you arent 80+ Putnam genius and what to get quality teaching for your money, then a place like Harvey Mudd College (hi2u plug) might be better, though people will constantly ask "you go to Harvard med?" We actually had a math major transfer from Princeton to Mudd this past year who claims we are "far more comprehensive," but thats just one mind/one situation. The course selections at UChicago and Princeton might be more attractive. So what are you personally looking for?</p>
<p>Seiken, Harvey Mudd actually ranks in my top 10 mathematics departments in the nation. I think that in the top 10 mathematics departments, the teaching quality is about the same, besides a few outliers. Harvey Mudd and the few other LACs on my list will probably have a higher teaching quality, since there's no graduate school, but you may run out of courses awfully quickly if you're an excellent student. However, I do have a friend at Princeton, and he says that the classes are awful. It may very well be true that Harvey Mudd has a much more comprehensive curriculum than Princeton.</p>
<p>Also, I think you downplay the idea of a difficult first course too much. The first course taken in college greatly affects one's attitude for the remainder of college. The better the start, the better the result. Even if the courses after the first course are awful, the first course gives the student direction and focus, qualities that many undergrads lack.</p>
<p>Ah but for some people, like me, it occupies that important #1 spot whereas for other people with different preferences it might not even be worth applying to. </p>
<p>Remember the prompt is:
I mean out of many colleges with math programs, which *one** stands out and special enough to make me choose it over any other programs out there? This is an imperative question for serious math major.*</p>