Math Classes Before Graduation

I’m scheduling classes for my senior year and trying to determine the best course for math would be. I’m very history/social studies focused but I also enjoy math and it comes very easily. I plan to dual major in some form of Investment / Business and Finance / Economics major, as well as International Relations. One particular school of interest, UPenn Wharton, recommends a strong foundation of calculus for business applicants. Due to scheduling issues I was forced to take Trig this year (my junior year). Thus, here are my two options for senior year:

AP Calc AB/BC, a block class taught all year
DE Calc I, Calc II, Multivariable Calc, taken summer semester through the following spring

Everyone says the rigor of the AP would be beneficial both in preparation and college admissions, and the AP teacher has outstanding recommendations. However, I would be unable to take Multivariable Calc or any higher level maths before graduation. Through the college, I would be able to complete Calc II by the fall semester and thus take various upper level maths that might be beneficial for future business majors (perhaps Multivariable, Calc-based Stats, etc.).

Note: Regardless of if I take Calc through dual enrollment or AP, I will still take the AP exam at the end, and the credit transfer issue is not a concern.

What would be better preparation, AP or DE?

While a few US universities require or recommend calculus while in high school, none does so for multivariable calculus. So don’t feel as if you need to take math courses beyond calculus BC / calculus 2.

Whether the AP course or the DE course is of higher quality (in terms of teaching you what you need to learn) is completely dependent on the courses and instructors available to you locally.

Agree with @ucbalumnus . I wouldn’t worry about taking MV Calc before College even if you did you’d most likely want to take it in whatever school you attended anyway.

For Wharton, you want as much math as possible so I’d advise DE math in this specific case.

Like the other posters said, nothing past calculus is expected.

A girl in my school got in ED to Wharton w/ only Calc AB

https://undergrad-inside.wharton.upenn.edu/requirements/math/ indicates that Penn Wharton only requires a course that is equivalent of calculus 2 at most colleges (MATH 104), or a special version for business majors (MATH 110).

Note: Penn names its calculus courses differently from other schools:

MATH 103: Introduction to calculus (calculus 1 elsewhere)
MATH 104: Calculus, part 1 (calculus 2 elsewhere)
MATH 110: Calculus for Wharton students
MATH 114: Calculus, part 2 (calculus 3 or multivariable calculus elsewhere)

Penn MATH 104 assumes at least calculus AB from high school or MATH 103. No additional advanced placement for calculus AB; 5 on calculus BC gives subject credit for MATH 104.

Agreed. And while you mention Wharton, your username references another university. :slight_smile: At Harvard, almost every incoming freshman who has taken MVC in HS is unable to bypass it. So while taking MVC in HS allows one to potentially take the honors level MVC at Harvard, for almost all students, there is no advantage (other than bragging rights) to taking MATH 23/25/55 vs. MATH 21.

So for the OP, especially if you have a viable non-academic thing to do during the summer, just take AP at the HS.

I really wouldn’t suggest taking Calc 1 as a summer course. For an Econ major, it is a hugh foundation class. Tanking it in a compressed format isn’t good. If it is a 12 week summer class maybe. But if it is an 8 week, stay away. That sounds like a terrible way to spend a summer. Just take BC with the understanding that you may want to repeat Calc 1 & 2 in college anyway.

Thank you all for the help. I’m now leaning towards just going with AP BC. I have the expectation that I may have to retake some form of Calculus, be it 1, 2 , or Multi-variable at whichever university I decide to attend. My concern is that without having gone beyond Calc II in high school I may be at a disadvantage / not fully prepared for a top business school’s econ or finance classes. (I will end up taking upper level math in college, anyhow). However the consensus seems to be that AP BC should suffice - is that correct?

Most undergraduate business schools do not require math higher than single variable calculus (MIT and CMU are exceptions).

Non-business economics majors are more likely to require multivariable calculus and/or linear algebra, although some schools’ economics departments offer high and low math options. More math is generally recommended for those who want to go on to PhD study in economics.

Of course, if you want to go into quantitative finance, you will likely choose more advanced math and statistics courses as electives.

When you go to college after completing BC, try the college’s old final exams for the calculus courses that you are allowed to skip to check your knowledge by the college’s standards.

You don’t need anything higher than BC (or even AB) to follow the intro class in college. Penn students take a math placement test during orientation or can just go with the basic indications (ie., anything below Calc AB 4 is Math 103, AB 4-5 or BC 4 is 104, BC 5 is 114 if you feel comfortable enough). For any other placement you just take the test and if you pass the 104 benchmark, you take the 114 section, then if you pass that then you’re placed in 240 (going from memory here). However the students who are in 103 are usually there through no fault of their own, ie., they attended a lower performing/rural high school that didn’t prepare them for Wharton’s math rigor. However, if you have BC + calc based stats or linear algebra it is considered at least as good as MV. In virtually all cases you’d take MV (and, in all likelihood, their version of Calc2, which is Calc 2 on steroids) at Wharton anyway, so calc based stats shows you can handle another type of math (which you also have to take BTW).
Further math rigor is expected from M&T students.

That being said, you shouldn’t craft your entire HS program for a single digit admission school like Wharton. So, start right now thinking of two colleges that share some essential characteristics with Wharton and have an acceptance rate above 40%. (If your main reason for Wharton is “selectivity and prestige”, it’s a good clue to need to really, really learn more about what it’s about so you can have a better application. Your understanding of what they want and what they perceive as desirable qualities and the school’s intrinsic values are essential at that level of selectivity. That applies to all colleges with sub-20% acceptance rates.)

A few remarks:

@MYOS1634 I don’t believe MATH 110 at UPenn covers as much material as Math 104 so I wouldn’t call Wharton Calc ‘on steroids’ My D took Math 104 and 114 last year as she could as part of the High School Honors program through LPS. Math 104 covered all the same topics as the CAS version and 114 normally does but her instructor left out 1 topic as a few of her classmates weren’t keeping up as well.

@skieurope There is definitely more than just bragging rights for most students in taking the Honors/Adv level of MVC. The problem solving skills learned in a proof-based math course are going to be useful to anyone in the business of solving problems :smiley: Basically if your program of study requires or can be enhanced by taking MVC then you’re in the business of solving problems.

Thanks for the input. A couple questions/remarks:

@MYOS1634
So would you recommend a calc-based stats course in high school? (Even with the expectation that I have to repeat in college). Could it be taken concurrently with Calc II or is Calc II more a prerequisite? Also, I have several other colleges / business schools in mind - Wharton is my top, however. The course load I take in high school isn’t necessarily shaped just to Wharton’s liking, it’s keeping in mind the best preparation for a top business school, wherever I end up.

@Dolemite,
What is the LPS program that you refer to?

Thanks.

As a practical matter, calculus-based statistics is not commonly available in high schools or community colleges that you likely have access to in high school.

@dolomite Hence my use of the qualifier “almost.” And at Harvard, at least, one can take a separate class which covers proofs without having to jam that in with MVC/LA

LPS is UPenn’s College of Liberal and Professional Studies.

@skieurope Well I’ll disagree in that the problem solving skills from the honors level is much more than bragging rights. Doesn’t mean you have to do it but there is a real benefit in learning those skills.