<p>So I'm a math major in the second half of my junior year with the hopes of going to graduate school and getting a PhD. I've known awhile that I ultimately want to teach at a university, hence the PhD requirement. The thing is, I took a philosophy class just last semester and loved it. Like, REALLY loved it. So now I'm taking another philosophy class this semester and think I'll minor in it. The thing is, I've been having this crazy desire to go to grad school for philosophy instead of math. I feel like I'm not passionate about math enough to actually get a PhD in it, but there's no way I could switch my major this late in my undergrad studies (without exceeding 4 years).
So tell me: is it possible to go to grad school for philosophy with a BS in math and minor in philosophy? Is it going to put me at a serious disadvantage? I'd really appreciate the input of any philosophy grad students out there.</p>
<p>You do not need either a major nor minor in Philosophy to go to grad school in Philosophy. This current thread should be helpful:</p>
<p><a href=“Changed Plans with 3 semesters left - I want to be a philosopher - #6 by snarlatron - Graduate School - College Confidential Forums”>Changed Plans with 3 semesters left - I want to be a philosopher - #6 by snarlatron - Graduate School - College Confidential Forums;
<p>I’m going to basically repeat my comment in the other thread.</p>
<p>-Enjoying one class alone should not make you go to graduate school in a field. That’s especially true if the philosophy class you took was an introductory class or a class for non-majors. The professors who teach those classes are deliberately trying to make their disciplines as appealing as possible. Take an upper-level class or two in the field before you start seriously thinking about this. Remember that it is very possible to love many fields without studying them in graduate school.</p>
<p>-Getting a PhD in any field is a means to an end. You should get a PhD because you need it to do something, not just because a field interests you. If you love philosophy, you can take classes for the remainder of your undergrad education; if you still love it, you can borrow books at the library and attend lectures and discussions sponsored by a university. One gets a PhD in philosophy not just because one loves it, but because one wants to STUDY it in depth - for at least the next 6-8ish years of their life but preferably for their careers. You won’t just be reading and discussing the prominent philosophers, you will be expected to study their works and opine about them, writing monographs and papers that other academics will then read and build upon. That’s why I say take an upper-level class, because you’ll be doing something much closer to what philosophy scholars actually do in those classes than in an intro-level class.</p>
<p>-The job market in the humanities is just abysmal. I mean, there are 200-300 applications for each humanities (including philosophy) professor job, especially if the job is in a place that a large number of people would like to live (the coasts, major cities) or is a competitive top university or LAC. Most people who begin a philosophy PhD will not become a professor. That isn’t to say that there aren’t lots of other interesting things you can do, but most likely you will not have needed a philosophy PhD for any of them.</p>
<p>So nowadays one should only go to get a PhD in philosophy if they 1) want to study, think and write about other famous philosophers for at least 6 but more commonly 7 or 8 or even more years, 2) need the PhD to get a job that requires it, specifically being a philosophy professor at a university or college because I can’t think of any other jobs that require a PhD in philosophy; but, ironically, 3) are really okay with knowing that their chances of getting such a job are very very low and that they will probably end up doing something they could’ve done with their bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>The same advice, IMO, applies to getting an MA in philosophy - since most MA programs in philosophy are designed to serve as stepping stones to a PhD.</p>
<p>With all that said, I actually think math is one of the better majors aside from philosophy itself that you can have going into philosophy. The kind of thinking (and sometimes scholarship) that some/many mathematicians do is similar to the kind of thinking that philosophers do.</p>
<p>And yes, you don’t need to major in philosophy to go to graduate school in it. But you will be expected to have taken a substantial number of classes in it (anywhere from approx. 3 to 7, depending on the competitiveness of the program and the professors’ opinions), including some upper-level classes.</p>
<p>Ahh, juillet, you are the broken-record Guardian Angel to so many lost souls 
juillet’s totally right, OP. Look at the situation soberly; whatever you decide to do, mean it. </p>
<p>Thank you, this is all very helpful advice. I do have the end goal of being a college professor, which is why I ultimately intend to pursue of PhD. But what should be the key factor in deciding whether I choose math or philosophy? I’m well into the upper level maths, and while I do have a fondness for Abstract Algebra, I just don’t know if I can see myself focusing on something like that for the next 7 or so years. I realize the prospects might be much better for a math PhD than a philosophy PhD, but should that greater security determine which way I go?
Also, since my intro to philosophy class, I’ve done a fair share of philosophical reading on my own, strictly out of curiosity. Of course, that’s just to say I know more than what we learned in that class, which I realize is still hardly any! Also, another point is I love writing and always have, and (besides proofs) there’s not much writing involved in math… at least, that’s been my experience.
What would all of you do if you were almost a senior and realized your true interests MIGHT lay elsewhere than your chosen major? Would you take a 5th year of undergrad to further explore those interests? </p>
<p>But what should be the key factor in deciding whether I choose math or philosophy… should that greater security determine which way I go?</p>
<p>Personally, I think these decisions should be a combination of economic/job security/feasibility and interests. I would never tell you to get a PhD in math because there are more jobs if you don’t see yourself studying and researching math for a career. That’s a recipe for misery, and there are enough miserable graduate students out there! 
The key factor should be interest. I would wager most professors work at least 50-60 hours a week, and this is the kind of work that follows you around all hours of the day and night. I think about my research as I’m laying in bed trying to fall asleep, in the shower, on the way back from the gym, while I’m cooking…whatever it is you want to research so badly that it makes you jump out of the shower dripping wet to scribble down an idea, or sit up at 3 am and hop on the computer to type out a paper idea, or tap an idea into your phone while you’re walking on the treadmill…that’s what you should study. (Yes, I’ve done all of those things.) BUT most people don’t want to work for 6-8 years earning a degree they won’t use, which is why I say economic feasibility should be at least a factor in your decision.</p>
<p>* Also, since my intro to philosophy class, I’ve done a fair share of philosophical reading on my own, strictly out of curiosity*</p>
<p>Good! Keep reading, and take it a step further and write. You don’t have to write a scholarly magnum opus, but keep a journal (electronic or paper) about your thoughts on what you read. That’s the next step. Don’t try to make it jargon-esque, or worry about style or substance. But writing about your own thoughts on what you read is the next step towards being a scholar. If you like doing that - a lot - then you may be cut out for this.</p>
<p>…Also, another point is I love writing and always have, and (besides proofs) there’s not much writing involved in math… at least, that’s been my experience.</p>
<p>At your level, no. But the medium of scholarly communication is the scientific journal article, so mathematicians do write a lot at the PhD level. That is, in part, how they communicate their work to other mathematicians. The level and kind of writing will be very different from a humanities scholar, though.</p>
<p>* What would all of you do if you were almost a senior and realized your true interests MIGHT lay elsewhere than your chosen major? Would you take a 5th year of undergrad to further explore those interests? *</p>
<p>NO. I’d get a job.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to be snarky at all. I believe in exploring your interests and taking yourself to the next level; I’m a PhD student myself. BUT there are so many other ways to learn than to stay in college, and I wish more undergrads new that (including myself, 6 years ago). Please graduate, and don’t spend any more money.</p>
<p>If you aren’t sure what you want to do, take as many philosophy classes as you can until you graduate. If you’re still not sure by the time you graduate, seek a job that seems interesting to you - it doesn’t have to be in a particular area or field, just one that seems interesting and pays the bills. Once you are working 9-5 you have all evening and all weekend to explore your other interests and try to decide whether you want to go to graduate school. If you live in or near a large city, your public library may have some scholarly holdings in philosophy. If you live nearby a university or college, you may be able to get access (either as a community member or an alumnus if you stay near your alma mater) to at least read in, and perhaps borrow, books. Read, and read widely. Living near a university or large city also means you may be able to attend lecture series by prominent philosophers and perhaps, even, take a class or two. The boon would be if you were able to get a job at a college or university - usually you can take one or two classes for free each semester, and you’d also have access to the libraries and lectures schedules.</p>
<p>Use that time, and those kinds of resources, to explore your interests and decide whether you want to go back to school and in what. Heck, you may decide 2 years from now that what you really want to do is study the philosophy and history of science (there are programs for that), or science public policy (ditto).</p>