Math major?

Parents Forum
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My son is entering his sophomore year. Was a physics major at a small liberal arts school. Now thinking of changing to Math.

Background. Smart boy with dyslexia and ADHD. College athlete. Loves his sport, and that is a good part of his life. ( Not really an academic, but, despite the fact that “I get it”…is not best shown in a college academic environment. However a college degree is a mandate in our family. So no need to go down this road! ) 27 ACT, middle of his hs class. etc. But really gifted in mechanical things, computers too, although he maintains that computer science is a different thing than being able to set up his and others computers. Gifted photographer…has a real eye for design, and mechanical. The lego kid that was obsessed with building. Could be a bit spectrum? Although socially quite adept. Lots of friends, and a bit of a leader in his peer group. Great sparkle in his eye. Started working at 13, asked by a hobby shop he frequented and quickly made it to the sales floor from the back room “fix-it” shop.

Had thought engineering, but honestly is not academic enough to make that happen, and possibly too creative and out of the box to be an engineer.

Loves his school, small and really works with his issues, although he did not pass Physics second semester freshman year.

Thinking of math major. Option for computer science too, though he never bites off on that when I mention it. I think a “basic” major, as opposed to something really ‘now’ (i.e.: MIS) is a good place. Thought business, but he doesn’t like essays and such.

Just getting feedback from the experts. What can one do with a math major? Truthfully I see him using his personality and quirky nature to fall into employment, but want to set him up for his future as best we can.

xoxo, mom

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Creativity can be advantageous in some engineering situations, since advances in engineering (and other fields) come from thinking out of the box. However, in engineering (and other fields), one needs to have good judgement about what situations are best for thinking out of the box versus not.

Common career directions that math majors tend to go into that are somewhat major-related:

  • Finance (with economics, finance, statistics electives).
  • Actuary (see http://www.beanactuary.com ).
  • Computing (with computer science electives; some areas like cryptography are highly mathematical).
  • Operations research (with statistics and operations research electives).
  • Teaching high school math (after teaching credential).
  • Research (after PhD).
  • Teaching college math (after PhD).

Note: operations research and industrial engineering involve designing and optimizing processes. If he is one who tries to make processes more efficient (e.g. the quickest way to go through a store or mall to buy all of the desired things), then that may be something he can consider.

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Why didn’t he pass the Physics course? Understanding this is important in his situation. What is the highest math course he has had so far?

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Math is an excellent major for those who like it and can handle the theory.

Your job, mom, is to back off. Please try to not interfere at all with your now adult son’s decision. Be supportive of whatever he tells you. Do not try to second guess how his intelligence and issues make things the best fit. You did your job, let him fly.

My gifted son’s path has some common elements with yours. He went off to major U starting with physics and math sequences and beyond plus computer science classes. Liked theory not applied math. After several semesters of physics he abandoned it and chose to finish a major in math. He only applied to top math grad programs and when he got into none he abandoned that (actually good since having a PhD in math is no job guarantee) and finished off the computer science major (was able to cancel planned graduation). His math is an excellent background for outside the box thinking in software development/engineering. Works at a major player and is intellectually satisfied. Oh, and he was a CC runner who kept at it through club sports in college- good to get exercise and a stress reliever as well.

So, liking both physics and math is not surprising. Discovering one does not like physics well enough to do the major likewise not a surprise. There is overlap in math and CS courses- to the point where some are cross listed with both departments. Your son, not you, will need to figure out if he prefers meeting degree requirements for one of those- or something different. Math is an excellent major for getting jobs in many fields. It actually may be a better major than physics for getting jobs.

He will choose what works best for him. The worst thing you can do is to try to micromanage his career/major… In a couple of years he will be into the upper level courses in his major and deciding which part of the field he likes best. That will determine the fields using his major he aims for in the job market.

Patience is required. You did your job helping your son get to where he is today- a successful college student. Failing physics proved it was not his passion. His ACT score is in the middle for top tier U’s, btw- not at all bad, well above average. My son did not do as well as he could have in some courses (we did not learn his grades after the first year or so, this is okay) because his heart wasn’t in them. He did get a math honors degree so he had to have done well, btw. The CS was a second major he did bare minimums for so no honors possible- but he graduated and improved his programming skills with his first job before being recruited by a top firm.

My son was in the top tier in his field so I don’t promise most will do as he did. Your son will likely also be able to find his niche and do well. There are many math related fields and jobs. Like my son was, your son is now in the process of discovering what best suits him. It could be CS, finance or many other fields that need people with the skills and ability to handle math. Or, he could eventually choose a different major that interests him more.

Short answer. Relax and let him be. Trust him. Hard to do but become a passive observer. It is interesting to follow our kids and see where life takes them.

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Engineering is totally different than the liberal arts math and science majors. Not a matter of creativity either. I was a chemistry major eons ago but no way was I interested in chemical engineering. Very different mindsets. A moot point since your son is the one deciding what he wants to do.

I assumed that you, like me, is a mom. More mothers than fathers worry like this. I only had 3 semesters of calculus but can see where there is a wonderful world beyond that, just not for me. Hard for those not in a field to picture it. So many directions your son can go. Remember- life after college is also not etched in stone. We’re curious to see where our son is in five and ten years.

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High level math is very theoretical which may or may not be a good fit for your S.

Business may be a good option for him. My S was an accounting major and I don’t think his business coursework entailed a lot of writing.

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thanks all. UCB, good to see the mention of cryptography, vaguely familiar, but will mention it off hand to him. Thanks for your reply. Sylvan, he had too full of a plate. for him. and not enough HS classes to support him at that level. it is fine, he is ok with it, and nothing like reality to redirect you. but he says he can handle the math, but physics was too much, and the peers in physics had very specific reasons for why they were pursuing physics. he did not, and just realized its not for him at that level. Wis75…actually, your reply is so helpful. and exactly what I want to hear. I don’t want to do anything but be supportive. The kid has a lot of confidence, and my micromanaging is irksome and unwanted. much happier to just sit back and let him do his thing. thanks for the support. happy, I have mentioned business is always a good backup.

thanks,

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It’d be hard to add anything more helpful than @wis75 's comments.

Indeed it is. CS is (generally) more about programming computers than setting them up or building them.

Depending on the school, he could switch to math and double or minor in CS, or an applied math like Statistics, if he wanted.

I think math majors do great career-wise, especially if they do the internships, research, regular jobs, etc during college that help them develop solid “real life” work skills. That last bit is true for most majors, of course.

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My son’s profile is vastly different from your son’s, so this might not help, but my son was a math major and is now a Data Scientist at a happening start up, and he loves it…but my son has loved math since he was two, and he has no disabilities other than ADHD (top test scores, etc.). He didn’t do perfectly in college at all (after being straight A student in HS), but it didn’t matter.

He was planning to double major in math and physics, but dropped the physics idea soon after hitting campus. He is an extroverted, high energy, athletic/musician type, and he’s one of only two on the data team that does not have a Master’s degree. I think he talked his way into the job.

His wife is an engineer, FYI, and she was the Lego person, not him. His creativity is very different from hers.

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Boy I was ready to chime in until you hit the physics snafu. That surprised me a little.

On the other hand, my H was a college athlete (until he dropped out of college) . . . similar sounding to your son very good with math, ratio, proportions, sales, people, etc. He now runs a business (and has for many years) and loves it. He wouldn’t do anything else BUT be an entrepreneur. When you mentioned your son moving to the sales floor - that stood out to me.

Contrast with our son who is a bit of a physics guru, great with numbers/ratios, spatial sense, former lego crazed kid. However, our son is not interested in sports whatsoever and is much more of the tech geek type. He’s a lot more ‘academic’ in a certain sense. He’s not as much of a ‘natural’ with sales, people, etc., though he has a great heart and will do just about anything for someone he cares about.

All that being said, I agree with the suggestion to let your son figure it out, though I certainly don’t object to you helping him explore it - if he wants you to do so. We moms walk a fine line LOL.

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Sounds like your son may be a budding inventor. Math is a very abstract subject and requires a lot of concentration, so this doesn’t seem a good fit to me. If not CS or engineering, then maybe industrial design?

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My son graduated with a degree in Math from Case Western. He is currently employed at a bank. He is in a training program for quantitative analysts. Other people in his training program were math, computer science majors. My son loves math but hates science. It isn’t surprising to me to find mathy people who don’t care for science. Economics is a good place to apply math to the real world.

If he isn’t academic enough for engineering he probably isn’t academic enough for math. Engineering majors take the basic math classes like calculus, statistics, maybe linear algebra. Math majors also have to take the abstract, theoretical classes like real analysis and complex analysis. Those are very abstract and much more academic than calculus. If he isn’t academic he will hate these classes. He says he should have taken more programming classes.

I think that a creative type will do better in engineering than math. There is much more creativity in engineering than math. Engineering is a real world discipline that applies science to the real world and allows for experimentation.

Good luck!

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From an academic standpoint, I would argue that Mathematics is the most difficult major, followed by Physics. After that Chemistry and the various engineering disciplines are on a similar par with each other. From your description of your S, I would not see Math as a major suited to him. Industrial Engineering, Mechanical Engineering Technology, or possibly something else altogether. He needs some soul searching and research into these areas rather than just a leap from frying pan into fire.

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I was one of those physics major dropped outs, ended up with double major in math and econ. I was much better at applied math than theoretical math. It was the same for D1. She also double majored in math and econ. Both of us started in banking, I was a quant and she went into sales and trading. I eventually ended up in technology and now in Big Data. My strength is I can see patterns very well and I can see very quickly how things could fit together, or not. D1 is very good at working with people while being very analytical.

There are many careers one could go into as a math major (being a teacher is not the only option). Your son should look into what he enjoys doing.

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We certainly don’t need to come to an agreement here, and of course I am going on a couple paragraphs of information rather than your life long background . Your kid sounds like an entrepreneur to me, with a heavy dose of tradesman. Has he thought about any non university vocations?

What I mean is, you sound determined to fix him into a STEM education, or at least a four year post secondary education. I wonder if getting an associates along with some skilled trades education isn’t a better path. He sounds like the kind of person owning his own “Design/Build” firm (Landscape? Painting? Home Improvement? Traditional Games Design even?) in 5 years as a young go getter.

Disclaimer, I am not “the expert” you are looking for, just a guy with experience of having a variety of very different types of kids, as well as a non traditional education background.

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I would make sure my kid has a college education. I think one gets precluded from so many jobs without a college degree, even if a degree is not necessary to do the job. There are so many applicants out there for jobs that it is an easy filter for employers. I think it was different when we were younger.

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If your kid wants to be a plumber, painter, car mechanic, chef…etc and has a real aptitude for it, I wouldn’t discourage him from it, and he certainly wouldn’t need a college degree for those jobs.

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@nettiK4137

My older D sounds a lot like your son–diagnosed ADD and dyslexic (her reading processing speed at the 5th percentile), but bright. Very talented painter & a thoughtful writer. Athletic, but not really a team sport kind of kid. (Rock climber, marathon runner, triathlete) Good at hands on stuff things. (She rewired various light fixtures and the garage door opener at her rental house rather than ask the landlord to fix them. She’d also pulled the engine out of her car w/ a hoist during college so she could replace the timing belt.) Could be outspoken, but worked successfully at plenty of people contact jobs including sales and restaurant waitstaff. Had a rocky start at college (lots of reasons). Started out a physics major, but tried econ, civil engineering, and structural architecture. Went back to physics and then added an applied math second major. Graduated as the #2 physics student in her class at a big state U. She went to med school and is now a physician in a very hands on specialty. D1 is great practical problem solver

Younger D was also a math major. She also went to med school.

So one other option to toss on the pile of possibilities.

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Interesting perspectives. thanks, so good to talk to others with similar situations.

As to why college? my husband, a very intelligent poor student dropped out, to work for himself. He has done QUITE WELL, but in the world we live in his dealings are always with college educated people, and the fact that he dropped out was one of his few life regrets. No, he didn’t “need” it, but if money is not a problem, it is a nice pedigree to have.

Yes, I do see him very entrepreneurial. The industrial design and engineering tech type majors sound quite interesting. 'nuther issue is that he loves his school, and the athletic team he competes on (D2). And, his liberal arts school doesn’t have these majors. Transferring is always an option, but one he is not too interested in. And, in that I do see him reaching employment via less traditional ways, I wonder if the degree matters to that great extent.

I certainly am not about to force him to transfer. Needs to be his idea.

Thanks all for the great perspectives. xoxo, mom

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True crypto jobs are almost all in government or academia.