<p>I'm 99% sure that I'll be attending Chicago next year as a transfer student and I want to major in math. I was just wondering if any current students, parents, etc. had any insight into what math I can expect to take in the fall. I took Calc BC my sophomore year of high school and got a 5 on the exam (used Spivak), and then took multivariable and diff eq my junior year. This past semester of college, I took vector calc and diff eq/linear algebra (highest grade in each class). I know that there's no way I'll get credit for the classes I took this semester, but do you think I might be able to place into honors analysis if I review single variable/Spivak-type calculus a lot over the summer?</p>
<p>Also, do most math majors end up taking the honors physics sequence?</p>
<p>Damn, you sound hot. I am thinking of majoring in math and I have taken only the equivalent of BC calc, so I was hoping to pass into honors calc (which uses Spivak) . . .</p>
<p>Paul Sally's honors analysis class is notoriously difficult, but you sound brilliant and well prepared. Where did you get that kind of math preparation, may I ask?</p>
<p>Yes, it is possible you'll place into Honors Analysis. As a transfer you'll probably have a sit down with Paul Sally and Diane Herrmann, and they'll decide where you'll be placed.</p>
<p>There's also an advanced section of "regular" analysis which uses Baby Rudin, so that is also a possibility.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reassurance. Katharos, I went to a math/science magnet school, and there were some really brilliant freshmen in my calc class sophomore year. It was humbling, to say the least. Haha.</p>
<p>Diocletian, would you recommend studying from Spivak mainly, or Baby Rudin as well? Is the placement exam similar in format to an Honors Calculus final exam?</p>
<p>Er, well, I know exactly what's on the placement test, so I don't want to give it away. Most of it is material of about AP Calc-level difficultity, but there are a few questions at the end which completely unintellligible to most people designed to see if you've had any advanced math. I wouldn't advise studying, but a review of basic techniques and definitions is probably advised.</p>
<p>If you don't place where you'd like you can petition Paul Sally and Diane Herrmann. But they'll put you through the ropes before they let you move up. You might want to try to approach Diane before the placement test and discuss which class is most appropriate. The goal is to put you in the class where you'd learn the most, i.e., not too hard (and Honors Analysis is <em>very</em> hard) and not too easy.</p>
<p>I'm a fellow transfer hoping to take honors analysis. I guess we're in the same boat. My background is Spivak calc, honors diff eq, and some algebra in college. I think only the first will really affect placement, though. I was looking at some websites for the honors calc class freshmen take at Chicago. One of them is for an "experimental" section where they give everyone the theorems but the students must supply proofs on their own. Im thinking that going through some of their assignments would be a good review. I'll see if I can dig up the link to the site.</p>
<p>I'm actually going to visit Chicago really soon so hopefully I'll get a chance to speak to someone in the math department and ask about this.</p>
<p>Diocletian,</p>
<p>Thanks for your responses in the other thread about the analysis and algebra classes. You mentioned that honors analysis uses mostly baby rudin. I'm not too familiar with it, but I thought baby rudin was at a level similar to Spivak? </p>
<p>Also, do math majors take a separate linear algebra course or is it covered in one of the sequences? At Michigan it is typically covered at the end of the Spivak course but this year the second half of the course was, let's say, not up to par and we didn't cover much except the basics (vector spaces, linear transformations, a little of dual spaces, basis, orthonormalization, etc). Will I see more linear algebra in the algebra sequence?
Thanks again.</p>
<p>"Baby Rudin" is the name for Walter Rudin's Principles</a> of Mathematical Analysis. It is only "baby" with respect to Rudin's other book on analysis, Real</a> and Complex Analysis. A course which covered Spivak rigorously would be a good introduction to a class that uses Baby Rudin, in the sense that Spivak is less "calculus" and more an introductory text to analysis on the real line. </p>
<p>Most people who take Honors Calculus, which uses Spivak's Calculus, do not get invited to Honors Analysis, of which there is only one section and in which there are at most 25-or-so students. It is very difficult, very demanding, and covers material which most schools don't address until the graduate level. I mentioned it earlier, but when I took it my second year here Paul Sally was teaching it. The first quarter was almost all abstract algebra, and day one was "Definition: A group is..." We had a whole test over p-adic analysis. By the end we were covering abstract integration with character groups. This is in addition to the usual real analysis/functional analysis stuff this sort of class would cover (measure spaces, Banach spaces, theorems like Stone-Weierstra</p>
<p>Eh? I didn't think you were belittling it at all, I was just trying to be absolutely clear. A lot of peoplet take Calc I/II/III and linear algebra at a nearby university and think that Honors Analysis is next class in the natural progression of classes they've been following since high school. Some of them can get really arrogant about it, thinking they're somehow entitled to get into the class.</p>
<p>I definitely don't think you're one of these people. Like I said, I just wanted to be as clear as possible about what, exactly, Honors Analsysis entails.</p>
<p>I have a question that I hope you can answer. Do most prospective math majors take honors calc their first year - or do some take "regular" clac instead? Is it an unwritten necessity for one to take the honors sequence if thinking of majoring in math? I fear my brain power, to be quite honest. (I am homeschooled and taught myself math from 5th -12th grade, and I suppose I also don't trust myself in terms of teaching; I want to make sure I have a frim grounding in calc before moving to more advanced math.)</p>
<p>Nope. Plenty of math majors don't get into or choose not to take the 160s (Honors Calculus). If you get invited my recommendation, however, is to jump at the chance to take it.</p>
<p>Thank you so much. I was afraid that I would be the only one taking the regular sequence - but I will be reviewing clac this summer in hopes of placing into honors.</p>
<p>Don't study too hard. Placing into a class that is too difficult is just as frustrating, and more damaging to your GPA, than placing into a class that is too easy.</p>
<p>I'm not 100% in at Chicago, but I have reason to believe that I have a pretty good chance of getting off the waitlist. I plan to be a math major.</p>
<p>I've taken the calc sequence at a community college, and to be honest it wasn't very rigorous. I also took linear algebra and diff. I'm guessing that Chicago probably won't transfer these classes if I get off the wailtist.</p>
<p>But I have been supplementing my calc studies by reading an old-school text, Introduction</a> to Calculus and Analysis I, by Courant and John. I've never looked at the Spivak text. Do you have any idea if this is good preperation for what I can expect at Chicago? I've also studied some intros to proof... And I think I've pretty much cut my teeth on proof writing, although I don't have a ton of practice.</p>
<p>Do you also have any idea, Diocletian, where someone like me might end up in Chicago math? I'm just really curious what I should expect and aim for once I get there, and maybe what I should focus on learning this summer.</p>
<p>Does taking the regular calc sequence prepare one well for more advanced math courses? (Seems it did for you, although you went on to take honors analysis.) In the end, even if I never am able to take honors, will I be alright and equal in knowledge with other math majors? Would no honors courses prepare me well for grad school (if I so choose)?</p>
<p>Does taking the regular calc sequence prepare one well for more advanced math courses?</p>
<p>There are three levels of calculus courses: the 160s, the 150s, and the 130s. The 160s is "Honors Calculus" and both the 150s and 130s are "regular" calculus. The 130s is filled with people who haven't had some experience with calculus, and it's slightly above the level of BC calc. The 150s is more rigorous (read: more delta-epsilon proofs), and will prepare you for harder classes. Of course, a dedicated student in the 130s can learn as much as a student in the 150s, too. None of the textbooks are the same in the three sequences, and Spivak simply covers more advanced material.</p>
<p>In the end, even if I never am able to take honors, will I be alright and equal in knowledge with other math majors?</p>
<p>I know you're hoping for a yes, but it's not really the case. The distinction between honor/non-honors at Chicago, I feel, is similar to the distinction between grad/undergrad sequences of equivalent courses at most other schools. But <em>most</em> math majors don't take Honors Analysis, so really don't sweat it if you don't get it. The other class that counts toward an honors degree, Honors Algebra, is open to everyone. Take it if you can.</p>
<p>Also note that there is a section of "regular" analysis that is more advanced than the others, using the same textbook as Honors Analysis but not paced at the same crazy speed.</p>
<p>Would no honors courses prepare me well for grad school (if I so choose)?</p>
<p>It's hard for me to say since I didn't apply to grad school and don't want to go to grad school in pure mathematics. I will say, though, that looking over algebra and analysis preliminary examinations for various grad schools, I've found that I'm at least passingly familiar with most of the questions and wouldn't need much studying to refresh the material in my head. Whether it's the same without the classes I've taken, I can't say.</p>
<p>Thank you so much. I truly do appreciate your time in answering my questions - though I am sure I will have more soon.</p>
<p>The honors algebra sounds like a good idea, as does the analysis course that uses the same text book as does the honors sequence. I think it would be best for me to take the 150 calc sequence, as I have seen calculus before and am pretty sure that that is where I would be placed.</p>
<p>Paul Sally is the Director of Undergraduate Studies in the Mathematics Department and is heavily involved with YSP (Young Scholars Program) and SESAME (a program for public school teachers). The only class he teaches, as far as I know, is Honors Analysis, and even then he only does that irregularly. There are years he teaches none of the quarters, or just one or two.</p>