How often do people place out of geometry / geometry and algebra 2 in their freshman year, is it rare or fairly common? Also, what kind of things are on the placement test that schools send out? Any advice for where to study other than IXL which I use now (it’s really good, but I feel like it’s more for people who have at pretty good understanding of a certain topic and just need practice problems)? Maybe Khan Academy, but I don’t really like the videos, since I am much more of a visual learner. Should I use some high school textbooks instead of websites? My goal was to place out of geometry and go into Algebra 2 next year, but now I think I can handle pre-calc next year so I would like to place out of Algebra 2 as well. Any general advice?
If you want to be absolutely sure that you will not only place out of geometry, but that you will delve into the subject at a deeper level than any boarding school (and I mean any boarding school), take the online AOPS geometry course. There is a section beginning March 26 (running until mid-September), taught by Olena Blumberg, one of the very few women to have ever placed in the Putnam competition when she was in college (the Putnam is a huge deal). Even if you only finish 3/4 of the course, and can do the work, you’ll place out.
https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/course/intro-geometry
Similarly, the AOPS Intermediate Algebra course will be at a higher level than any traditional school-based honors algebra 2 course, but it would be a tremendous amount of work to do both. Good luck!
Several times I’ve posted our son’s experience trying to jump ahead in math at Choate, but will repeat for @FunintheSun1211 and others who may have this same question:
I will emphasize: Do not discount the part about learning how to participate in a BS math classroom. You will NOT be memorizing formulas. You will be taught first to clearly understand the problem you are trying to solve. You will learn to think mathematically about approaches to solving the problem without delving first into any formulaic toolkit. After that, you will learn some methods for crafting solutions. You will understand and own how to derive formulas so that you will know not only which to apply but also why, the same way a carpenter knows when to use a hammer over a saw. I remember one Parents Weekend watching three kids go to the board and correctly solve the same problem three different ways. The rest of the class time was spent discussing those various approaches and why each worked. Very different from the match-the-equation-pattern-to-the-one-right-formula method I was taught in school.
It’s far more important that you learn to think like this than at what level math course you start or end. There are no prizes for accelerating in math. You can trust your BS to place you into the stream at the right point and expertly guide your progression.
Obviously, you know the type of student you are and what your goals are. I’m just offering something to think about.
ETA: It is perfectly OK to reach out to the head of the math department at whichever school you choose to attend to get their advice on this issue.
Thank you @ChoatieMom for that very helpful post!
If you are already taking Geometry, do you get placed in A2 or Geometry?
+1 for not trying to “beat the system” and be placed higher than where you belong. In the first week of school, you’ll be able to assess whether the placement was right and move up or down if necessary. According to my daughter, the movement tends to be down rather than up. I know several kids who took summer classes to be able to skip a level, and then were disappointed when the school didnt deem that experience equivalent to a full-year of BS course and placed them where they would have been to begin with. For SPS, math placement is not always test-based. DD took Geometry in 8th grade and for 9th grade was placed in Algebra 2 based on syllabus, textbook used, and grades in the geometry class. After the first term of Algebra2 at SPS, freshmen were split into regular and Honors Algebra2 based on performance.
There are freshmen taking Calculus and then there are freshmen taking Algebra 1.
At NMH, Algebra 2 is mostly taken by sophomores and some juniors/seniors, and my son took it as a freshman.
I am also against accelerating math curriculum. As long as one reaches some calculus by graduation, it is fine with most selective colleges.
Math education is not about learning formula nor collecting tools to tackle certain equations.
It is about learning to think logically and training the brain for abstract mathematical concepts. In life, once a problem is mathematically written down it is easy to identify many ways to solve it. One is not rewarded with solving a given equation. Computers can do that. The difficult part is to come up with an approximate mathematical model so that equations describing a real-life problem can be written.
If you are advanced and find the class pace slow, join Math club or other communities like AOPS or peer-tutor struggling classmates. Teaching is an excellent way of learning.
Don’t rush to a destination, enjoy the scenery along the journey, and take lots of side trips.
I’ll reiterate. If you want to delve into the subject more deeply than at any boarding school, look into the AOPS geometry course. Only if you have the time to study this summer.
I too would caution very much against accelerating just for the sake of accelerating. The founder of AOPS has a great article on this very subject: https://artofproblemsolving.com/articles/calculus-trap
I am assuming you are very interested in mathematics. Getting geometry out of the way now - only if you’ve got the time and inclination - would open up some more time in your high school years to explore the other topics that most kids never get to, like number theory, more serious combinatorics than that typically presented, competition mathematics, etc.
I’ll stand by my statement that NMH geometry will not approach the level of analysis that you will get from the AOPS course. No course designed for typical (not math obsessed) kids will.
@FunintheSun1211 Just spoke to a math department head today with the same question. The dept had gave some great information. First, you will not be among many kids with various skill sets, the level of the BS kids will be higher than elsewhere. Second, while many can test out, they also find at a later date that they are missing a couple or even a dozen areas. She used matrices as an example which could come back again in later math to “haunt” them. I wanted to ensure that my kiddo would not be doing repetitive math as has been the case at LPS. Before the conversation, I thought skipping might be a good idea. After the conversation, I was convinced it was worth doing a high level geometry course. She also said if you are going to skip a math class, the easiest one to skip was stats. I would call the schools you are considering and ask them your questions.
@SatchelSF I like the idea of the AOPS course. That is a rigorous program.
If you pass the placement exam for geometry, you get placed into algebra 2 (assuming that’s the next level). If you fail, well, then you’re placed in geometry. But I will echo the above statements that almost any math class at a boarding school will be more rigorous than the comparable course at your prior school.
Another plug for AOPS and for not moving too quickly.
AOPS Algebra, Geometry and Intro to Counting and Probability were a great foundation for the highest level of _____ (class before pre-calc.Different schools have different names for the class.)
The highest level of Pre-Calc will be challenging and will move fast. It may cover part of AP Calc A/B so that you can take AP Calc B/C right after the Pre-Calc class.
You will want to make sure that you have a very strong foundation!
Also, as other people in this thread have mentioned, the type of math class one is likely to encounter at a rigorous BS is rather different from how most middle and high schools teach math, so even if you already know some of the opening topics, it might be nice to not be in “stretch” territory by way of subject matter if you’re also trying to adjust to a new way of learning math. Personally, although I’ve skipped multiple grades in math at my current school, I don’t want to skip any more before Exeter because (and this may be a familiar circumstance for some of you other math-y people out there) I haven’t really been challenged by a math class before, and I have a feeling that will happen this fall, so I’m just going to do whatever math class I place into.
Good Lord, folks, sometimes the cheering squad for boarding schools is a little too much! I always hear about how rigorous boarding school math courses are. I honestly don’t know what to make of it. How do we judge their rigor?
Let’s look at one school often mentioned. Take a look at the SAT achievement tests in math at Choate (obviously one of the premier schools): https://www.choate.edu/uploaded/Documents/Academics/College_Profile.pdf. They are frankly pretty low scores, on average. For instance, the average SAT Math Level II score (692) - a decent proxy for basic proficiency at the Algebra 2/early Precalculus level is actually a little lower than the average score for all high school students taking the test (694).
While it is of course true that a good score doesn’t mean you are talented and/or prepared in math, it is also equally true that if you are talented and/or prepared you should do quite well. Much better than Choate’s average score. (I don’t mean to pick on Choate - they do have a few extraordinary young mathematicians in any given year, but the average student there is not particularly talented and/or prepared in math, as demonstrated by the scores.)
With a few notable exceptions (PEA and PAA come to mind), boarding schools will generally not offer the rigor of top day schools in math courses, or of top STEM-focused public magnet schools. That’s just the way it is. Specialized online courses, through AOPS or through www.elementsofmathematics.com, are at a different level, because they are aimed at a much more specialized and capable audience.
The OP asked for some recommendations to get past geometry. She won’t be cheating herself by going the AOPS route. Much will depend on what advanced courses are offered at the boarding school. If there are some fun and interesting courses available in Linear Algebra, Graph Theory, Differential Equations, Group Theory/Abstract Algebra, Number Theory, etc. it might be worth accelerating past the basic courses to get to them. Good luck!
@SatchelSF piercing remarks. Most kids as I know taking calculus in top stem schools even such as Stuyvesant do not have strong foundations. That’s main reason I do not trust HS grades: seriously overinflated. ^:)^
@knowmore - the rigor and depth of the math curriculum at Stanford OHS is terrific! About Stuyvesant, well, it was only twenty years ago or so when all the talented math kids were at Bronx Science. Didn’t they have a student who was plucked right out of 12th grade and sent to work on the Manhattan Project (Roy Glauber)? (They actually let him go back and start at Harvard and then really took him for good.) Ever since they built the new building, Stuyvesant has been increasingly attracting all the kids, so it’s not really a contest anymore. But perhaps the math teachers are weak there still (a vestige of the E15th street days)? Super smart kids, though, I’m sure they’ll figure it out.
At SPS my kid was required to show evidence of having actually taken the class in order to move ahead. Passing a placement test was not sufficient. SPS said that they would accept Honors Geometry through JHU-CTY. This was a full year course that was self-paced and required working several hours per day in order to finish the class in 3 months. Kid was not allowed to register for Algebra 2 until he submitted the transcript showing successful completion of the class.
If you are considering this path, you should be sure to speak to the head of the math department during revisits.
@SatchelSF You are perfectly right on that. I taught kids from Bronx, Hunter, and Stuy; only top 10% kids may have decent foundations for upper math. Bronx is not the same as before like I mentioned a kid from Bronx to apply for PEA or PA. I even met this kid a couple of time at a local school fair. IMO, Stuy is not that terrific anymore. I dropped this offer.
By the way, I got a big issue: DD got full FA offer from SHOS. hmm. I was about to send an email to ask you about her choice. Would it be okay to do pm to you?
Of course @knowmore - my DC also received an offer from OHS last year (but wound up turning it down). And congrats to your DD!
We’re not talking about the average kid here or the average scores on subject tests. All of the top BS will be able to take any student as far as they are capable in math. If you “top out” in the rich math curriculum, there is independent study with some serious mathematicians or, in Choate’s case, the relationship with Yale will come into play. Any school can handle the average student. I think most of the concerns here are for the exceptional student. No concerns there. Choate prepared our son to validate right into discrete math at West Point. He was well served by his high school program.
Can a kid get to Calculus in BS if their public school district didn’t provide Algebra 1 in 8th grade?
Can they start with Algebra 1 in 9th and still get to Calculus?
(In our public high school, they’d double up and do Algebra 1 and Geometry concurrently.)