Mathematics PhD, right track?

Graduate School
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I’m currently a (American) sophomore at a state school majoring in Mathematics and Finance. Basically I want to eventually do some sort of quantitative analysis (be it for the government, academia, or finance), but I want to get a PhD first (so I’m actually competitive in the quant world). It’s also been a dream of mine to go to Oxbridge so I am specifically asking about that, but am completely willing to go to any other grad school.

I just want to get feedback as to whether or not I’m on the right track for admission to a Math PhD program in general as well as Oxbridge. I think I should also include the fact that I’m about two years ‘ahead’ in the Math program at my school as I tested out of “basic” Calc, DiffyQ/Linear, and stats.

CGPA: 3.51 (Got a C in my gen-ed apparently weed out bio class, would be 3.71 without the bio class)
Major GPA: 4.0
Research Current: 1st author in physics pub
Research Future: Can reasonably expect to get a 1st and 2nd in physics. I recently started math research and will most likely get one or two pubs in positions as 3rd-4th author on the first and 1st-2nd on the other.

-> Definitely 3 pubs physics and 1 or 2 pubs math by the time I graduate
-> Am working on my GPA and can reasonably expect it to be 3.75-3.85 by the time I graduate
-> Looking to do REUs in the coming summers

So basically as an American, what do my future chances look like for Oxbridge if I were to follow through with my current plan? Also what do my future chances look like for top 20 US schools? Lastly, suggestions for anything else I could do to improve my chances of admission would be appreciated.

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I find it…a little difficult to believe that a college sophomore can anticipate getting 5 publications by the end of undergrad, including two first-authored papers. I suppose it is definitely possible, particularly if you’re very advanced in math.

If you have a 4.0 in math and 5 publications (including 2 first-authored) by the time you are out of undergrad, I think you are almost a shoe-in for most PhD programs in mathematics. That would be truly extraordinary and show evidence of excellent research promise at a very early stage. The fact that you are an American won’t matter to Oxbridge, and you’d be well-positioned for top 20 schools here, too.

But I’m not sure that you need a PhD in math to be competitive as a quant. A math person can correct me if I’m wrong, but I actually think the PhD-level mathematicians who go quant decide to do so because they don’t want to be in academia anymore, not because they necessarily intended on being a quant from the get-go. You may only need a master’s to do that. But even if you do really want a PhD, if you are really interested in doing quantitative analysis you might want to pursue a more applied PhD than math - like applied statistics or even a PhD in finance with a master’s in math or statistics (which you can earn concurrently at some universities).

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You sound like a strong candidate (though your research to date sounds to lean more to physics than mathematics - which makes it sound as if that is what you’re more interested in).

Generally speaking for PhDs in the UK you need to have a fairly specific area of research in mind when you embark on your PhD. You will also need to apply somewhere where there is an appropriate supervisor for your topic.

The most important aspects of your application will be your recommendations (I assume those will be good given your research), and your grades. Publications are not expected, but if they are impressive they may help.

The new Oxford programme in Industrially Focussed Mathematical Modelling might suit your specific interests: http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/industrially-focused-mathematical-modelling

Cambridge likes mathematicians to have a Masters before embarking on a PhD (http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/postgrad/phd/) but Oxford doesn’t insist on it.

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Thanks for the fantastic replies!

@juillet
I think I should’ve said “at most 5 publications, 3 likely to be physics and 2 math” I guess, but I can probably expect to get 3 total. I know I don’t necessarily need to have a PhD to be competitive in the quant world, but I think I’m leaning towards the finance area of the quant world and the more the merrier for that arena.

Honestly, the real reason I want to pursue a PhD is that I have genuinely always wanted to get one and this career path that I’ve set out for myself would allow me to get one earlier in life rather than later (I guess I’d just prefer to do it sooner?).

As for the PhD itself, I was thinking of doing some type of applied mathematical analysis (eg Cambridge) and I am also considering a Quant/Finance industry specific type PhD as well. I have to admit I’d be more interested in doing a math PhD and from what I’ve read most quant employers like ‘regular’ math PhDs just as much if not more than industry specific degrees (eg finance).

I’ll definitely consider the track to obtaining a PhD and Masters concurrently, I’ve never heard of that before. I will be talking to an actual quant soon about the pros/cons of a Finance vs Math PhD which will hopefully help me determine which is better for me.

@Conformist1688
The physics research I am doing is almost completely based in math and is basically applied numerical analysis in physics. As for the PhD area of research, I’m (as of now) generally leaning towards an applied math/numerical analysis, but the specifics aren’t exactly defined yet and can definitely change down the road towards applying. The necessity of an appropriate supervisor is something I did not consider and will have to look into further, thanks.

Wow, I was not aware of Oxfords program, that looks very promising. Cambridge is a bit of a dream school for me (beauty, location, Newton, Hawking) and I was aware of their preference for a Masters before pursuing a PhD which is a little saddening I guess, but understandable. According to their page, the PhD is 3-4 years. Best case scenario: apply to Cambridge, get into masters, get masters (1 year), apply to PhD, get PhD (3 years pure math, 4 years Math analysis). In total it’d be a 4-5 year Phd + a masters. Even though Cambridge is the dream, I’d be thrilled to go to Oxford or any other quality UK school and will most likely be applying to a few of them (as well as US schools).

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Even 3 is a lot for an undergrad! My meaning is simply that if you truly do get 3-5, you’re an extraordinary candidate and you have really good chances. Even without the publications you’re excellent, but those would be like a huge cherry on top.

I certainly understand this - I’ve heard many people say this; quite a few have asked me about getting a PhD and admitted they wanted one precisely for this reason. My only comment here is to say that a PhD isn’t really the kind of thing you should do simply because you’ve always wanted one - which seems kind of ironic. It’s difficult to explain until you sort of go through one. But it’s grueling, unforgiving work at low pay for little tangible reward. The only thing that keeps you going, sometimes, is the abstract concept that you’re getting to study what you love and really dig deep into problems that deeply fascinate you. And in a practical sense, sometimes the only thing that keeps you going is the knowledge that you need this PhD to do your chosen career.

That’s not said to discourage you from the PhD, per se - not at all. Just to give you a different perspective on it. For some people, really really wanting the PhD might be enough to sustain them until the end.

They certainly do, in large part because of the relative shortage of people with high-level quantitative skills who can do the work. I only suggested it because I thought your own interests might align more with an applied degree or a finance degree - but it sounds like you’re leaning pure math.

Yale is one school that I know of that allows a concurrent MA. I think Michigan does, too. Duke has one in statistical and economic modeling. I wouldn’t let it necessarily determine where you apply, but I’d poke around the universities you were interested in doing a PhD at and see if they have this offering. This is usually the kind of thing you have to know you want to do early so you can arrange your course schedule around it.

Good luck! You sound like you’re on the right track.

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I completely understand where you’re coming from and one of the things I really want to do soon, is to sit down with multiple professors and talk to them about the experience they had in getting a PhD. I’d then try to relate those experiences to my own to see if a PhD is really what I want. This would also inevitably lead me to debate the MA vs PhD path as well; something I am still in the process of thinking about.

Overall, I’m gravitating towards financial quant work with a more pure/applied math degree (be it MA or PhD). I’d like to at the very least get a MA, but getting a PhD from Oxbridge would be perfect (an MA would probably be just as great of an experience). I think career wise, I’m probably so intent on getting a PhD since many top companies often attract the most qualified candidates (PhDs) and I’m a rather type A competitive person by nature. I guess I’d just feel more secure in acquiring a position at a company I like with a PhD. That’s not to say that I can’t do the same with a MA.

I genuinely was not aware of the concurrent MA offerings, but I agree that it should not determine where I apply. It is interesting and provides another pathway in which I can venture.

Well I think you both fully answered my questions, gave me great advice, and have given me a lot to think about in my future journey. Thank you!

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A side note on UK PhDs: to a much greater degree than in the US, applications for PhDs are about a pairing between the research interests & fit between the applicant and the potential supervisor. Often the applicant and future supervisor have had direct conversations before an application is even made. I had a verbal offer, including funding, from my supervisor before I formally applied (obviously, it was conditional on my formal acceptance by the department, which included all the usual application bits). Doing a Masters at Oxbridge would give you the necessary contact with the professors.