<p>I know the most important factor for getting into a good B school is whether or not you have work expirenece. I assume then getting into a business school right after you graduate from you undergraduate college will be very hard unless you gather work expirence during the summers of your college years. Is this assumption correct?</p>
<p>It depends on the type and selectivity of the MBA program in which you are interested. If you are interested in a full time MBA from a top 30 school, you will likely need at least two years of full time work experience. An exception would be if you are in a joint degree program such as a JD/MBA program. To get a JD/MBA, you will have to go to school for 4 years instead of 3 for law and 2 for business. You start your law school studies for the first and second years and then begin taking a mix of law and business classes in your final two years. This is true for most programs. </p>
<p>I do not agree with the assertion that your work experience is the most important thing to get you into an MBA program. Work experience is sometimes not easy to evaluate. For example, being a vice president at a bank may provide completely different experience from being a vice president from a home building company. MBA admissions officers also rely heavily on GPA, college academic workload, GMAT, etc. Rarely is four years of laziness in college reversed by a better than average three or four years of work experience.</p>
<p>Umm... I am interested about this stuff, and I was just wondering about a few things:
What if I'm interested in getting a MBA after majoring in EECS as an undergrad? Would work experience help in this case? It seems to me that EECS is a totally different field than Business Admin, and it would be difficult in just a couple of years to get leadership experience in this field. However, I would like to go into business administration with an engineering background, hence the EECS degree. What do you guys think would be the best course of action for me?</p>
<p>Depending on how you look at it, work experience may or may not be the most important component of your B-school application. I believe that it is, for the following reasons. </p>
<p>Strong work experience won't get you into B-school by itself, but it is almost de-rigueur in order to get the slamdunk rec's, the good essay answers and (especially) to crush the interview. It is extremely difficult to do well on any of these things without either strong work experience or, I suppose, a tremendously ununusual undergraduate experience full of leadership activities and whatnot. Essays, recs, and the interview are far far more important in B-school admission than they are in undergrad admission. Imagine being in the B-school interview and being asked have you ever had to deal with such-and-such of a management situation... and having nothing to say. You're basically DOA then.</p>
<p>So you might say it's correct that work experience by itself is not the most important thing, it is essential to crush the essays, the recs and the interview and that is easily done through work experience. </p>
<p>Speaking of the JD/MBA track, I find it rare indeed for a top MBA program that is a part of a JD/MBA track to admit people with minimal work experience. Most JD/MBA programs run double-admissions - meaning that you have to secure admission to both degree programs independently - and the MBA program will only rarely cut you any breaks just because you managed to gain admission to the JD program. Even those JD/MBA programs that are integrated (a unified application) run their adcoms with a joint law-school/business-school committee. The point is that the JD/MBA track (or any other degree program like a MD/MBA track) should not be seen as a backdoor way to get out of the work experience requirement. </p>
<p>Besides, look at it this way. Just take a gander at the average undergrad GPA's and GMAT's of entering students at the top B-schools. Even an indisputably elite B-school like the University of Chicago admits students with an average undergrad GPA of 3.33 (according to the 2003 USNews Best Graduate Schools rankings - yeah, it's 2 years old, but how much could have changed in 2 years?). Think about it. That's really not that high of an entering GPA for an elite graduate school. Honestly, unless you're majoring in engineering or a hard-science, and/or at a school that's infamous for lots of grade deflation, it really doesn't take that much work to maintain a 3.33. Nor is this unusual just for Chicago - take a gander at all the top B-schools' entering undergrad GPA's, and you will notice that they really aren't that high. The average entering undergrad GPA's for the top law schools and top medical schools are significantly higher. So while I wouldn't say that those elite B-school students were lazy as undergrads, I wouldn't exactly say that as undergrads, they were the hardest workers either. Again, look at their average undergrad GPA's. </p>
<p>Now, as far as the questions from xredcomet, work experience always helps in all cases when you're talking about B-school admission. EECS is a totally different field from bus-ad, but the fact is, one of the biggest chunks, if not the biggest, at any elite B-school are former engineers. </p>
<p>The idea is not necessarily to get leadership experience while at your job (although that would be extremely helpful because it would make your essays and your interview look great), but to show leadership potential. If you can reasonably demonstrate that you have a decent chance of eventually becoming, say, VP of Engineering, or CTO (obviously not immediately, but sometime in your career), then that would constitute good work experience.</p>
<p>If you are absolutely 100% gung-ho about getting into an elite B-school, then don't work as an engineer right out of undergrad. I'm not saying not to get an engineering degree, but don't work as an engineer. Instead, get a job at a Wall Street investment bank or at a management consulting firm like McKinsey or BCG. These are the two prime gateways (IB and MC) into the top B-schools.</p>
<p>bump bump bump bump</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I am a junior at UCLA doing engineering and I am interested in pursuing a JD/MBA after finishing my undergrad. I am curious about general information about how high my GPA, LSAT score, and GMAT score should be. Is this something I can do as soon as I finish my undergrad, or will I have to still get work experience in order to get into the program? When is it advisable to take the LSAT and GMAT? </p>
<p>What are good schools to apply to and which schools should I consider as back-ups? Are there any schools that further condense the programs from 4 years to 3 years (I vaguely remember reading about this somewhere)?</p>
<p>And finally, if I were to work after my undergrad for a couple years and then apply for B-school, what kind of jobs should I be looking into so as to have a solid B-school application?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Feynman1998 - </p>
<p>I guess the best thing you can do is find out each school's individual stats for both the law school and the business school. For example, if you want to look into the JD/MBA program at UCLA, their middle 50% for the LSAT is 162-168 and their middle 50% for their GPA is 3.51-3.83. For their MBA program, their average GMA is 3.50 and the average GMAT is 701. So if you appear to be a good candidate for each individual school, then the chances are good that you're a good candidate for the combined program.</p>
<p>In terms of work expreience, I guess that's up to the school itself. Law schools take people directly from undergrad, so if you're doing a JD/MBA then they might not need you to have the work experience. You just need to make sure that in your application essays you can explain why you want to do the MBA and why at that point in time.</p>
<p>Just need some advice on what to do next year... I want to get my MBA from a top school ... something big 10 and what not ... I had a 3.0 going into this semester and this semester was rough so it went down to a 2.92. I have alot of work experience with small independent companies and large companies such as Target where I did store assessments. My GMAT score was a 280, which disappoints me extremely but I had a lot going with being a student coordinator of University Open Houses, and being a Greek Life Corrdinator for the University too. Just wondering if I should even try to take my Gmats so soon or should I get some more work experience after I graduate and go for my MBA after that. If anyone could give me some advice that would be great .. thanks!</p>
<p>Like I said before, it is true that JD programs take people right out of undergrad. However, MBA programs, especially the top ones, rarely do. And most JD/MBA programs are either dual-application procedures, which means that you have to apply to and get admitted to each program separately, and then once you've gotten into both, then you tell each program that you're enrolling in the combined program. Or if it is an integrated, "one-app" procedure, then the single app is reviewed by both the law-school adcom and the B-school adcom. The point is that the JD/MBA track is not a backdoor way for you to get a top MBA with no work experience. Your application(s) is still going to be reviewed by the B-school adcom for the appropriate work experience. </p>
<p>For point of reference, here are what various top-tier JD/MBA programs have to say. Note, for all the URL's, replace "hxxp" with "http". </p>
<p>Stanford:</p>
<p>"Students who wish to pursue a JD/MBA must apply and be accepted independently to both the Law School and the Graduate School of Business. "</p>
<p>hxxp://<a href="http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/learning/special_interests/joint_degrees.html">www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/learning/special_interests/joint_degrees.html</a></p>
<p>Wharton</p>
<p>"All applicants to dual- and joint-degree programs must apply to both Wharton and the second school or program. This means that the appropriate standardized tests, such as the LSAT, GRE, or MCAT, a completed application form, transcript, and recommendations must be sent to the partner school.
Admission decisions are made independently by each school, and students may pursue a dual-degree program only if admitted to both. "</p>
<p>hxxp://mba.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/academics/curriculum/dual.php</p>
<p>Harvard</p>
<p>"Applicants to the JD/MBA Program must complete the application requirements of both HBS and Harvard Law School separately, applying independently to each school. If admitted to each school, the potential student would then execute the separate Joint Program application and send a copy to each school."</p>
<p>hxxp://<a href="http://www.hbs.edu/mba/academics/jdmba.html">www.hbs.edu/mba/academics/jdmba.html</a></p>
<p>Kellogg/Northwestern:</p>
<p>"The application is reviewed by both the Kellogg and Law School admissions offices."</p>
<p>hxxp://<a href="http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/jdmba/jdadmissions.htm">www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/jdmba/jdadmissions.htm</a></p>
<p>Chicago</p>
<p>"Applicants must obtain and submit applications separately to both the GSB and to the other professional school, and will receive separate decisions from each school."</p>
<p>hxxp://gsb.uchicago.edu/fulltime/admissions/faq.aspx#fi3</p>
<p>Berkeley-Haas</p>
<p>"Please note that a separate application and admission to the other department are required."</p>
<p>hxxp://<a href="http://www.law.berkeley.edu/prospectives/academics/jddegree/concurrent.html">www.law.berkeley.edu/prospectives/academics/jddegree/concurrent.html</a></p>
<p>Now, if we're talking about non-top-tier MBA programs, then I think it is true that you will be able to get into the JD/MBA program without significant work experience, and that's because you could have gotten into the regular MBA program at that school without any significant work experience. Then the question becomes, is it useful for you to get an MBA that is not from the top-tier. Keep in mind that the MBA is not like a law degree or a medical degree. If you want to be a lawyer or a doctor, you basically need a law/medical degree. Nobody really 'needs' an MBA. </p>
<p>Now, of course, if somebody is paying for your MBA, even if it's from a lower-tier school, then that's an entirely different story.</p>
<p>Stanford allow applicants to apply if they are extra-ordinary candidates.</p>
<p>Plenty of less-selective (but well regarded) MBA programs accept students directly out of undergrad school. However, even when immediate enrollment is possible, I highly recommend some work experience. I had about five years of engineering and management experience when I did my MBA, and I felt like I got a lot more out of the program than my classmates (and perhaps brought more to the discussion, too). To the students without business experience, talking about marketing, production, human resource issues, etc. was all very theoretical; I was able to put combine the lectures and readings with a real-world context, and found that very beneficial. (I'll admit that a few grizzled veterans I encountered went to the opposite extreme... they had so MUCH experience that they were unwilling to accept textbook theories. One eventually got tired of hearing, "Yeah, well, that's fine in a book, but in the REAL world...")</p>
<p>The one thing to be said for immediate enrollment in an MBA program is that one avoids the economic adjustment issues of transitioning first to an employed lifestyle and then back to a student lifestyle (for full-time programs).</p>
<p>Well, technically speaking, every B-school, even the elite ones, will allow you to apply right out of undergrad. </p>
<p>For example, this blurb from HBS:</p>
<p>"Experience
I am still an undergraduate student. How long do I need to work before applying?</p>
<p>Traditionally, we have admitted a small number of applicants directly from university each year. We strive to find outstanding leaders at different points in their professional lives. Some applicants may meet this criteria while still in or immediately following undergraduate school, "</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/faq.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/faq.html</a></p>
<p>And in fact, almost every B-school, even the elite ones, will happily accept applications from people right out of undergrad. There are very few programs indeed that specifically state that they absolutely won't, under any circumstances.</p>
<p>The real issue is whether you will actually admitted right after undergrad. And unless you truly are an exceptional candidate, the odds are vanishingly small. Basically, those people who do get admitted right after undergrad have managed to compile an impressive record of work and/or leadership achievement before or during their undergrad years. </p>
<p>I happen to know one guy who got into HBS right after undergrad. But consider the circumstances. Right after high school, he didn't go to college. Rather, he joined the Navy and became a decorated Navy Seal. After discharge, he then went and did his undergrad, and then immediately applied to and was admitted to HBS. So he, technically speaking, got into HBS right after undergrad. But clearly he had a lot more life experience and leadership experience than the typical bachelor's degree recipient would, and so I'm sure we can understand why HBS would have admitted somebody like that. </p>
<p>Having said that, I would say that I wouldn't mind getting into a top B-school even if I didn't have any work experience. Sure, I may not get as much out of it as a guy who has actually worked, but hey, it's better than working at an entry-level job for 2 years. I'd rather be a guy with an elite MBA, but no work experience, than a guy with 2 years of work experience, but no MBA. </p>
<p>However, it is clearly true that for most normal people (i.e. people unlike that former SEAL), it is very difficult to get into an elite MBA program right out of undergrad.</p>