<p>Remember when this thread was a poll (with numbers)?</p>
<p>no........but you're like the 50th person to "remind" everyone....</p>
<p>^ A little angry, aren't we? Haha.</p>
<p>Dbate is right. Some will vote for Obama and others for McCain and we'll see who wins.</p>
<p>Where Dbate is totally wrong is in suggesting that Obama flip-flopped on the Iraq issue. He's kept with his basic premise: the Iraq War was a stupid diversion from the fight against terrorism of the sort we saw on 9/11. Many people with serious national security credentials -- and a wide majority of US citizens -- feel the same way. And he said he'd withdraw in 16 months. And he said he'd confer with his generals who work for the CIC. And he said he'd make sure to have a plan that allowed for him to consider the situation on the ground.</p>
<p>We would not be served by having a politician who said that under any circumstances he or she would follow one rigid plan.</p>
<p>Obama got this totally right. And if you want to look at who the flip-flopper is, here you go. Talk about making it up as you go along:</p>
<p>"Some will vote for Obama and others for McCain and we'll see who wins."</p>
<p>Wow. I haven't heard anyone state the obvious like that in a very, very long time.</p>
<p>Wow, BH, that is amazing; I had no idea. Still, I think McCain is an honorable man whose memory isn't what it used to be (neither is mine). Has Fox or other partisan put together a similar montage of Obama?</p>
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Has Fox or other partisan put together a similar montage of Obama?
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</p>
<p>Oh, they do all day long, in a constant drumbeat, but they have a lot less to go on so they make stuff up. Sad, but true.</p>
<p>Ron Paul by write in ahaha</p>
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We would not be served by having a politician who said that under any circumstances he or she would follow one rigid plan.
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</p>
<p>Correct. That's the Bush school of thought.</p>
<p>As far as McCain is concerned i am well aware of his flip-flopping, bc well that is what politicians do in the primaries, appeal to a base and then move to the center for the general election. The problem i have with Obama doing this, is that he expressly stated that he would withdraw in 16 months. The conditions were sixteen months period, throughout the primary season until he decided to change it.</p>
<p>Barack</a> Obama's aide suggested renege on Iraq troop pledge</p>
<p>Obama</a> Struggles to Explain His Iraq Policy - July 3, 2008 - The New York Sun</p>
<p>From the article:</p>
<p>"Mr. Obama's Web site contains this direct promise about Iraq: "Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al-Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al-Qaeda."</p>
<p>Barack</a> Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Iraq</p>
<p>In January 2007, he introduced legislation in the Senate to remove all of our combat troops from Iraq by March 2008.</p>
<p>In fact on the Senate Floor in January he didn't mention listening to generals when he offered the Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007.</p>
<p>Floor</a> Statement on Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007 | U.S. Senator Barack Obama</p>
<p>The point blank of the matter is that Obama, did offer a rigid timetable for pulling out of Iraq, and NOONE can deny that was a central theme of his primary run.</p>
<p>BedHead how often do you watch Fox?</p>
<p>Let's not forget, McCain had the foreign policy "expertise" to assert that the Iraq conflict would be "quick and easy" - nevermind that any rudimentary knowledge of wars in that part of the world would recognize that insurgencies lasting years, if not decades, are part of the equation.</p>
<p>(Btw, McCain flip-flops and then pontificates that he always knew that it would be a long, tough hall, and that the administration totally bungled it).</p>
<p>And let's not forget McCain criticizing Obama for thinking that Somalia was in any way similar to Iraq - after all, as we all "know" - there are no Islamists in Somalia (and better yet, the pop. in Somalia in no way supports the Islamists).</p>
<p>mccain=draft
obama=my cousins come home</p>
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The point blank of the matter is that Obama, did offer a rigid timetable for pulling out of Iraq, and NOONE can deny that was a central theme of his primary run.
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</p>
<p>Wow, you must've really not been paying attention if you thought Iraq was Obama's central theme, as opposed to "change and hope". Haha.</p>
<p>zetter, Obama has said we need many more troops in Afghanistan, so its not that easy.</p>
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zetter, Obama has said we need many more troops in Afghanistan, so its not that easy.
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<p>At least they'd be fighting for America instead of Halliburton.</p>
<p>Really NbaChris, responding with snide remarks in the face of legitmate evidence is not the way to win a debate. Obviously seeing as we were debating foreign policy i would be make comments in reference to foreign policy, and that was his central theme for foreign policy.</p>
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And let's not forget McCain criticizing Obama for thinking that Somalia was in any way similar to Iraq - after all, as we all "know" - there are no Islamists in Somalia (and better yet, the pop. in Somalia in no way supports the Islamists).
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</p>
<p>Are you being sarcastic? I'm not really sure, but i hope you are...</p>
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Really NbaChris, responding with snide remarks in the face of legitmate evidence is not the way to win a debate. Obviously seeing as we were debating foreign policy i would be make comments in reference to foreign policy, and that was his central theme for foreign policy.
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<p>What we were talking about hardly qualified as a debate on foreign policy. It consisted of you first accusing Obama of outright flip-flopping, then backtracking to "well, that's the gist I got from his campaign". I was merely there to provide the easily-found evidence that contradicted your original accusation.</p>
<p>Look Obama has always advocated an orderly withdrawal, with the grand goal being the end of all American military presence in Iraq by the end of his first term. Sometime ago, he proposed a 16-month plan (after all, people want plans to go along with big ideas). But every time, he has said that he wants to be unBushlike and remain flexible and receptive to the opinions of military leaders. Every time. Of course, lazy thinkers don't like to think when there are caveats involved, so they dumb it down to Obama's 16 months to McCain's 100 years. And now that Obama has merely reiterated his consistent advocation for continual reassessment of the situation in Iraq, the ignorant (or partisan) groups are accusing him of reneging on a promise that he never made.</p>
<p>well at least obama will eventually pull the troops out I think I remember hearing something that he would pull them out like we did Nam. I realize its not that easy but I do not want to go to Iraq and if McCain wins I have to go to France or Germany because I believe we have something like an extradition treaty (not sure if thats the name) with Canada.</p>