McGill versus Northeastern University versus DePaul for Computer Science?

College Search & Selection
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My son wants to major computer science and we’ve narrowed down his options to McGill, Northeastern (Boston) and DePaul (Chicago). He is able to attend DePaul tuition-free, but we’re not sure how reputable it is for computer science. He loved McGill’s campus and culture, but he’s worried about large class sizes (I’ve heard 700+ students). Is anyone familiar with McGill’s computer science courses? Are upper-level class sizes smaller? (Other than DePaul, McGill is the more affordable school.)

We also love the idea of the co-op program at Northeastern, but he liked McGill’s campus better.

If anyone is familiar with the computer science programs at these institutions, we’d love your insight about the class sizes, rigor, accessibility of professors, etc. Also, do major employers recruit at these institutions? Thanks!

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Looking at Depaul’s department, they seem to offer a good deal of classes. It is not ABET accredited, but that is due to a lack of focus on science / engineering courses in the curriculum there. I don’t know much about the program, but wanted to give that info for context.

I’m currently attending NEU as a sophomore in CS and loving it. While I have tons of great things to say about NEU’s CS department, just note that I don’t know the other two specifically, and other factors beyond the CS programs should probably come into play as well.

Northeastern actually developed its own language and teaching program - a program I actually help with as a TA. The language focuses on really teaching problem-solving and program design over “writing code that works”. This philosophy is really carried through the entire program but is most visible at the start.

This is a great essay the founder of the program wrote - he currently teaches Software Development here.

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Thoughts/Growing_a_Programmer.html

As far as the classroom experience, I can’t speak to the other two, but here I have yet to see a single powerpoint of code - all of the classes are taught by working on problems in class as a group and every new concept is introduced with a working example and plenty of labs/homework to practice on.

All of my CS classes here are under 100 students easily - some as small as 20-30. The average is probably about 50 or less. While the intro course is growing due to the general demand of CS, I would expect to see the same sizes.

As far as majors employers go, it’s hard to beat NEU. The average NEU CS co-op pays about $25 an hour from my experience, and Intuit, Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, and tons of other great companies hire co-op from us each semester. The co-op program works really well with CS in particular.

I would think that many of the same employers would recruit at the others, particularly McGill, but the opportunities would be limited to internships in the summer. The ability to really allow companies to invest in you and give you more real work is one of the big advantages NEU offers.

What are the exact costs / loans at each? As much as I love NEU, it doesn’t make sense to pay an incredible amount more when you do have two other solid options. Between the other two, I would definitely lean McGill - class sizes will shrink as you go towards the upper division classes at all schools.

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Also, it’s not as if they hold small seminars discussing the philosophical underpinnings of Big O in CS.
One of the worst classes I ever had was a CS class with about 4 people.

What would smaller CS class sizes gain you?

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@PurpleTitan there’s a big difference between 50 and 700 - 4 vs 20 you obviously don’t gain anything.

Smaller class sizes often reflect on how the class is run - in a class of 700, it’s not exactly practical for a professor to have any class participation - in a smaller lecture, you can have lots of interaction, something that makes a big difference especially at the earlier levels. Learning by doing is a big part of CS, and actually being involved in solving a problem guided by a professor is a lot different than a lecture to 700.

The professor also can get to know his students better and really interact with them. I know when I walk down the hall, if I run into any of my professors, they know my name because I participated in class and developed a relationship with them - in smaller class sizes, a much larger percentage of the students do this.

On top of all that, class sizes can make one feel a lot more comfortable, in both directions.

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This is very helpful. While DePaul is tuition-free, we still have to pay fees and room and board. McGill would cost about $12,500 more than that (total) and NEU would cost about $37,000 more than that (total). My son would also have $22,000 in loans at McGill or NEU – a lot but not unmanageable.

So NEU is the most expensive option, but we’re thinking the co-op experience might offset that. On average, are most co-ops for CS majors paid?

Also, at McGill he would receive a BA in CS (the BA program is half the cost of the BS program, and the BA students take the exact same classes as the BS students). Will receiving a BA as opposed to a BS make a difference in terms of job prospects?

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BA vs. BS would not matter in the US.

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BA/BS does not matter, though the more CS classes you can take, the better you will fare usually. You can do that at any university.

For co-op, CS majors make about $25 an hour on average at NEU - however, to be safe, assume that co-op pay offsets room and board, and anything extra is a nice surprise, not something you are banking on. Let’s say your son switches to studio art in his second year - those co-ops are going to pay a lot less, if at all, for obvious reasons.

That said, a 6-month co-op at $25 an hour works out to $25,000 before taxes - after taking out taxes/room/board, even in Boston, you will still have around $10,000. Over 3 co-ops that adds up to $30,0000. Even lower paid co-op’s in CS ($15 - $20 an hour) will still probably be in the black after room/board.

Personally, I would narrow to McGill / NEU - they are worth the extra cost. Of course, I would say NEU, but financial considerations are important. It sounds like the loans are plenty manageable in this case, especially given the major.

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Fair warning, my experience at McGill is from a Life Science and graduate student perspective but I did know a couple of people in computer science and engineering.

McGill is a large Canadian research intensive public university, which tends to mean class sizes in the first two years are often large for the main pre-requirments classes (ie. there will be introductory classes all the new computer science majors will have to take and likely only a couple different lecture times meaning you will have a couple classes in the 100s early on. The trade off is in 3rd and 4th year class sizes shrink dramatically as students graduate from the introductory and more general courses and there are a lot more specialized courses available. The research focus is also helpful in 4th year if your son decides he wants to take on an honors project; which involves working in a research laboratory and completing their own project (kind of like a mini-half-year thesis) at the university for 1 or two semesters. There are also some classes that are combined 4th year undergraduate and post-graduate classes. These classes tend to be pretty small and are challenging (they are taught at the graduate level) but you can learn a lot, as it is often very much focused on learning about cutting edge research and advances in the particular field of study of the professor for that course. In short, the big academic advantages at McGill really kick in in the third and especially fourth year when you can really get into an active role in the research going on.

As to employers in Montreal hiring Computer Sicence majors, I have to admit I don’t know enough about that industry to comment much. I do however know the city is a hub of video game development with studios like Ubisoft Montral (Assasins Creed series) and Edios Montreal (Deus Ex series) are based there so there are probably some good co-op or summer internships there for computer science majors. Quebec has some weird language laws when it comes to speaking French in the workplace so you might want to check that out though.

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Have you or your son visited all three? Has he sat in on any of the classes?

My daughter is choosing to go to DePaul to study CS with a focus is game systems software or game design. Admittedly the NEU program was not what she wanted but there is something to be said for graduating with a smaller amount of debt.

My daughter loved Boston but wanted to go to the best program for what she wanted to study in a major city.

When we were at DePaul she spent a lot of time talking to some students and they all
Reported that even as freshman in comp sci the largest seminar class only has about 40 -50 students. No more than that. The upper level classes are more like 10-20.

I honestly think you can’t go wrong with any of these choices.

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Thank you all for your help. My son is still debating … one of the issues is he also wants to do stand-up comedy and comedy writing (computer science is his choice for a practical job). Chicago is obviously great for that, but we’re from the area and he likes the idea of going to a new city. Between Boston and Montreal, which would be better for someone who wants to break into the stand-up comedy scene? He loves Montreal, but he’s concerned that he might be at a disadvantage because he isn’t fluent in French.

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I don’t know Montreal well, but Boston has a pretty decent comedy and improv community in particular - both schools probably have related clubs (I know NEU has a satire news organization that would be a good place to start). There’s Improv Boston and Improv Asylum - both hold shows and I’ve even seen free tickets for NEU students via RA’s.

Again, I can’t speak to Montreal so look into that specifically there.

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Thanks - what is the name of NEU’s satire news organization? He would love that.

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It’s the NU Instigator - http://nuinstigator.com/

There main Improv group is NU and Improv’d - https://www.facebook.com/NuImprov/

the ***'s are facebook (dot) com

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Well, every year Montreal hosts Just For Laughs, which is the largest comedy festival in the world, so I would guess the stand-up options are pretty good.

I actually saw an act by Dave Chappelle there at Just For Laughs in 2014. I can tell you downtown is packed whenever the festival is going on. Tickets to the big acts sell out well in advanced however and generally are not very cheap.

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2007/mar/16/scotland.canada.australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_for_Laughs