Not a valid comparison at all. If one goes to the Naval Academy to pursue medicine and fails to achieve their objective, all is lost. If one fails to select VGEP, it being only a perk for those who have excelled, life goes on, maybe even better than had they delayed entry into the fleet for six months to a year.</p>
<p>
This is not the issue. Of course USNA makesa a few slots available as a perk for those who have excelled academically. It should not be the primary goal of a candidate in their decision to attend the Academy. Actually, the position of the Admissions Department has been to officially discourage it and there has been no official change in this policy. Until this happens, there is no need to take anything up with anyone. On the BGO interview form for career preferences, there is no option for Medical Corps.</p>
<p>That’s ridiculous. You can say that about anything! What if one goes to the Naval Academy for the sole purpose of pursuing graduate school after graduation? Wouldn’t “all be lost” in that case, also? What if one goes to the Naval Academy for the sole purpose of being a carrier aviator. If they don’t get that, wouldn’t “all be lost”?</p>
<p>I think most midshipmen understand, going in, that they may not get their first choice. Would you discourage a candidate who wants to be a Navy SEAL even though his chances are about as slim as becoming a Navy doctor?</p>
<p>People have dreams. People have goals. And sometimes they pursue those dreams with the full understanding that it’s a long shot.</p>
<p>Let’s face it, getting into medical school is very difficult and takes a lot of work - whether you go to the Naval Academy or to the University of Whatever.</p>
<p>Your point seems to be that it is a selfish endeavor (you should be helping your “unsat” classsmate) that has little utility (a waste of tax dollars). </p>
<p>I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ll bet many midshipmen come to the Naval Academy with some kind of “primary goal”. What’s wrong with the Medical Corps being that goal? Or Marine Air? Or EOD? Or Navy SEAL … ?</p>
<p>Sure it’s a longshot! So what? If they fail to reach their goal - then they’ll just have to come up with Plan B … just as countless other students do at other universities who initially wanted to go to medical school.</p>
<p>I went to the Naval Academy wanting to be a Navy pilot. I understood, that if I lost my 20/20 vision at any point in time, that it would be impossible. That happened to many midshipmen. No waivers were ever given. There was no corrective surgery available in those days. I understood that I would simply have to make another choice if I couldn’t fly. And, if I went to a civilian school on an NROTC scholarship, that dynamic would not have changed one bit. </p>
<p>Should I have not gone to the Academy if my “primary goal” was to be a pilot because, if I lost my 20/20 vision, “all would be lost”?</p>
<p>Your argument is illogical.</p>
<p>Please tell me you’re not a Blue & Gold Officer.</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree with the post by XXX above.</p>
<p>My experience and expertise would lead me to this XXX opinion and conclusion, and here are the facts, as I know them, that would support my opinion and conclusion…</p>
<p>THEN LET THE CANDIDATE AND/OR PARENT OF A CANDIDATE DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES THEIR OWN “TAKE AWAY” FROM THE POSTS TO USE FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT</p>
<p>PLEASE, LET’S BE KIND AND RESPECTFUL OF ONE ANOTHER’S VIEWPOINTS…I AM SURE THAT WE ARE TRYING TO BE HELPFUL…AND KINDNESS AND RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER IS THE BEST WAY TO HELP CANDIDATES AND/OR PARENTS OF CANDIDATES…NOT BICKERING TO PROVE WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG…</p>
<p>Yes, I would advise someone whose primary goal is grad school to look elsewhere. For a ‘primary goal’ of Marine Air, EOD, Navy SEAL, or carrier pilot, I would tell them they are in the absolute best place in the world to help them achieve that goal. For Medical Corps, I could not say that.</p>
<p>The US is in desperate need of doctors and in the future it is only going to get more critical. The pool of qualified willing candidates is small. We should do everything possible to assist and encourage these young men and women. There are much better programs to prepare one for med school than that of the USNA curriculum. More flexible course loads, lenient drop policies, professional counseling as to the best courses of action, courses designed for pre-med students, etc. Did the USNA EE majors get in because of their coursework or despite it. If it was the latter, how much did EE help them in their med school studies? All the Navigation, Seamanship, Weapons, etc courses so vital for career line officers mean absolutely nothing in medical school. All the professional development which again means so much to a line officer is nothing but a detractor to a pre-med student. </p>
<p>Sure, the ‘best of the best’ can make it anywhere but what about the also ran, those who wouldn’t have a chance at USNA, but would do well with the proper environment elsewhere? Are we doing them any favors putting them out driving a ship?</p>
<p>For the caliber of student which we are discussing, scholarships are readily available so a ‘free’ Academy education should not be a factor. Also, there are plenty of programs available to assist with medical school in return for a future commitment.</p>
<p>Not sure what you mean with the personal attack BGO remark.</p>
<p>While possibly well intended, this comment strikes me as grossly gratuitous, subjective, and suggesting that the author grasps both the substance and nuiance of med school admissions, as well as suggesting that there is some magical concoction that certain undergrad programs have discovered in assisting students into med schools. And more so that USNA academic preparation and accompanying professional training are some how deficient or deterrent in helping students. </p>
<p>Most med schools could care less what major or academic program of study a student takes, as long as they can provide evidence of the fundatmental subject areas noted elsewhere here. In theory, there are probably fewer places more equipped and attractive for preparing students for the rigors of med school. </p>
<p>That said, I concur that USNA is not the optimal choice for students focused on this career path as 18 year old students. And for 2 reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The primary purpose of USNA is to educate and train future USN and USMC officers. </p></li>
<li><p>Some of these will be medical corp physicians who have in fact graduated from USNA, and many more who will have undergraduate degrees and med school credentials from non-military institutions. And in fact, very few, year in and year out, no matter whether there is a quota or not, are granted service select to go to med school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>It’s very simple. It’s possible. And unlikely. So for whatever reasons, the odds are poor of students attending USNA and ending up in the Medical Corps. As noted, statistically they’re better for SEALS which is nigh onto impossible. </p>
<p>Conversely, if a student doesn’t mind a 5 or 6 year hiatus between undergrad and going to med school …I’d say USNA grads have a vastly superior advantage, other things being close. Med school deans The US is in desperate need of doctors and in the future it is only going to get more critical. The pool of qualified willing candidates is small. We should do everything possible to assist and encourage these young men and women. There are much better programs to prepare one for med school than that of the USNA curriculum. More flexible course loads, lenient drop policies, professional counseling as to the best courses of action, courses designed for pre-med students, etc. Did the USNA EE majors get in because of their coursework or despite it. If it was the latter, how much did EE help them in their med school studies? All the Navigation, Seamanship, Weapons, etc courses so vital for career line officers mean absolutely nothing in medical school. All the professional development which again means so much to a line officer is nothing but a detractor to a pre-med student. </p>
<p>Sure, the ‘best of the best’ can make it anywhere but what about the also ran, those who wouldn’t have a chance at USNA, but would do well with the proper environment elsewhere? Are we doing them any favors putting them out driving a ship?</p>
<p>For the caliber of student which we are discussing, scholarships are readily available so a ‘free’ Academy education should not be a factor. Also, there are plenty of programs available to assist with medical school in return for a future commitment.
LOVE boys and girls who’ve done what most USN ensigns have done. </p>
<p>So, knowing what the scenario is, and that’s no secret, make your choices.</p>
<p>I remember reading some report from the CNP saying that the navy is in trouble with doctor/dentist manpower in the late 2010s/early 2020s. Historically, both Naval Academy and NROTC (countrywide) have commissioned approx. 10 each into medical corps per year but I believe that is changing very soon. you can read a recent directive by NSTC here: </p>
<p>So this will be a new MDO scholarship, similar to getting a doctor’s billet in the navy right out of high school (initially 40 spots will be offered). What this means for the Naval Academy I’m not sure, but pressure from CNP might end up taking away more URL commissions in the future for medical schools.</p>
<p>In the meantime, the program is guaranteed in NROTC, and it may be better to get an undergrad in a civilian school with more medical internship opportunities anyways…</p>
<p>mids start out with one major in mind, and change their mind- all the time.</p>
<p>100 or so of any given class will get the opportunity to attend post-grad programs. 101 on the list, and guess what-</p>
<p>never, ever, underestimate the demands of the academy- physically, mentally, scholastically. Even the best stumble, and no one escapes.</p>
<p>Order of Merit determines everything, and academics, while important, is still just one aspect of that.</p>
<p>be sure what you want is what you want, and then figure out the best way to get there. If you want to be an officer, go to USNA. If you want to be a doctor, then go to Brown or any number of schools that have a HIGH PERCENTAGE of med-school acceptaces from their pool of graduates. There is a reason USNA does not post that number- enough said.</p>
<p>Courses- yes, there are a wider range being offered, but your chances of getting them depend on what you can fit in your schedule, which is dependent on what you can validate from your core classload, how many of your 3-week summer breaks you are willing to give up to “fit in” a needed elective, and the other competeting demands on your time [and opportunity costs associated with each]. </p>
<p>In sum-
possible.
not probable.
and the odds are NOT in your favor.</p>
<p>Let’s say the candidate’s number one reason to go to Navy is to play lacrosse. Will that make him less of an officer once he graduates? I do not think so, nor would it for a person who wants a medical career. At 17 or 18 years old there are various reasons for going to a particular school and not all of them are about what I want to do when I graduate. Much will change during the four years at USNA your major, your service selection, your girlfriend/boyfriend, etc. And another is needs of the Navy. Just ask the drafted submariners whose goal may have been Navy air, but due to their outstanding performance had a service selection handed to them. Things happen. If the person wants to try and go Medical let them try. They will probably be more dedicated to attaining their goal than many others. One out of five is much harder than 1 out of 200. When I graduated the number one person in the class (and Brigade Commander) went medical and stayed for over 20 years. Nothing wrong with it.</p>
<p>You are correct in assessing the 17/18 year old psyche. However, the vast majority who go to USNA for the primary purpose of playing lacrosse …or wanting to be an MD, will soon discover their needs will become dare I say sub-serviant to those of the USNA. And they like fine lacrosse players, but don’t give a hoot if the Mid bails on that to devote more time to his studies and duties. No lost scholarship, because there was none to begin with. </p>
<p>But the point is, again reemphasizing what I and others have said, the lacrosse motivation is most likely because he was told he could play there. If one’s primary motivation is to become a doc, the odds are so magnifiably greater than in a traditional setting, one would have to wonder why a wanna be doctor would want to stack the odds ever more against his achieving his objective. </p>
<p>So again, possible? Yes. Likely? No. </p>
<p>And if the thinking process goes something like this …“Well, I’d REALLY like to be a doctor, and I understand a few make it directly out of USNA, so maybe I’ll give it a shot, and in the likely event I don’t make it since so few do, well being a jet pilot or sub-mariner wouldn’t be bad either.” </p>
<p>Well, it’s hard to debate that one, especially with a 17 year old kid. And you know, I’d be willing to bet there are a fair number of Mids who have thought the same thing. And a whole bunch of them are pretty smart. And I’d also bet the vast majority of them end up …sub-mariners, jet pilots, SWOs. All I gotta do is look at how few get into med school out of USNA. </p>
<p>And that brings us full circle …to the simple point. If a student REALLY wants to be an MD, traditionally and statistically, her chances are miniscule @ USNA. Conversely, they are HUGE if they wanna be an officer in the USN. </p>
<p>And the heart-to-heart for such a young person might suggest that as he/she ponders USNA vs. pre-med ROTC or otherwise @ Mega U.</p>
<p>A good high school lacrosse player, if he is honest with himself, knows his skill level. He will also have the Navy coach, or the very obvious lack thereof, assisting him in his decision. Therefore, he is able to make an informed decision and can be held accountable for the results thereof.</p>
<p>A prospective SEAL always has EOD as a fall back and, barring that, can become a ‘river rat’. He will also know that he is in the best place in the world to achieve his dream and, if he doesn’t make it, at least partially only has himself to blame.</p>
<p>A Medical Corps candidate has driving a ship as a backup. If this is what he wants, and truly understands the odds, great. If not, he does not need a bunch of people blowing smoke up his butt as to how great USNA is for those who want to enter the medical profession. Also, I would really examine deeply the logic in the apparent dichotomy of someone who either wants to be a naval aviator or a doctor depending solely on which way the chips fell. Just my 2 cents. </p>
<p>And also, to date, this seems to be the official policy of USNA. We will have to wait if and when the new catalog ever comes out to see if there is a change in this policy commensurate with the increased annual billets.</p>
<p>A wise candidate will evaluate USNA on its own merrits- WITHOUT SPORTS.
A midshipman is one injury, one slip in grades, one “bigger, better player” away from NOT PLAYING their sport.
Lacrosse is particuarly competetive-
it is well recognized that it is over-recruited
not all recruits make the team
not all team selectees remain on the team for 4 years
the roster numbers have been “trimmed”
and if one gets to play, it should be the “cherry on the top,” and not the main course.</p>
<p>There will be those that make the team, and still end up having to make a very tough choice- and it usually boils down to athletics vs. academics. Varisty level sports are very time consuming, and for a good number of them it is to warm the bench. If it means a lower OOM, then one has to weigh the options carefully in the “big scheme of things.” Lacrosse, like many things at USNA, is “secondary, optional and conditional,” and a wise candidate will keep that front and center when making their decision- at USNA or elsewhere. </p>
<p>Don’t think for a minute that question does not get scrutinized most carefully- from BGOs to those serving on nominating committees. The priority is clear- to train midshipman for a career as a naval officer. If one’s goals are not consistant with that end, they need to rethink their choice.</p>
<p>One final thought.
The USNA has made clear its desire to attract more students interested in Division-1 engineering majors. Add to that the desire to increase diversity. I have not seen one communication indicating a desire to seek more candidates interested in med school or law school. Food for thought.</p>
<p>You say the chances are slim to get into the Medical Corps out of the Naval Academy but I’ll bet more midshipmen (as a percentage), desiring to fly, do not get their choice than those desiring to get into the Medical Corps.</p>
<p>The reason so few go into the Medical Corps is not because so many are rejected, rather, it’s because so few are even trying.</p>
<p>Although it’s not required to major in Chemistry, the fact of the matter is that most desiring to go into the Medical Corps <em>do</em> major in Chemistry. Nominally, that’s about 40-50 in a class. Right off the bat, half of those majoring in Chemistry have no intent to go into the Medical Corps. Now we’re down to about 20-30. Half of them will quickly find out that they are not going to have the grades. And a handful of them will not get accepted into a medical school for one reason or another. And then, invariably, there will be somebody who qualifies in every respect … and may even get into a medical school … but will be denied because of some heinous conduct/honor black mark on their record.</p>
<p>That’s why I say: You’re only competing with yourself.</p>
<p>I’m not saying it has never happened, but I’ll venture that not too many midshipmen, who get accepted into medical school (which is a huge undertaking in itself) are DENIED Medical Corps.</p>
<p>If you’re point is that it is difficult to get very high grades at the Naval Academy - I’d agree. But those who DO get high grades and DO get into medical school are probably going to be permitted to go into the Medical Corps.</p>
<p>Why do more graduates from Brown and Johns Hopkins go to medical school? Easy! A much larger percentage of them are pursuing that objective … UNLIKE the Naval Academy.</p>
<p>The real question is this: What percentage of those attending Brown University with the goal of going to medical school actually DO go to medical school? I’ll bet it is smaller than the percentage of midshipmen intending to go to medical school who do go to medical school.</p>
<p>Getting into medical school is difficult all itself. It has nothing to do with the Naval Academy. If anything, attending the Naval Academy looks rather impressive, I imagine, on a medical school application form … and during an interview.</p>
<p>The problem with attending the Naval Academy is that normally very bright high school students tend to stumble when subjected to the rigors of the Naval Academy. For the first time in their life, they discover they are average, or, below average - on a relative scale. You can’t go to medical school if you are in the bottom half of your class. Forget about what the Navy will or will not let you do. That’s irrelevant. You won’t be able to get into a medical school - which renders the whole issue of getting selected for Medical Corps moot.</p>
<p>If you enter the Naval Academy determined to go Medical Corps and do all the things you need to do to obtain that goal … from DAY ONE … it is VERY achievable. I don’t see how attending Vanderbilt University increases your chances.</p>
<p>In your attempt at somewhat circular logic, I think your last post agrees more with my original position than it does with yours. First a couple of fallacies:
First off, each year around 90% of each class gets either their first or second choice for career selection. With aviator being first choice and NFO being second choice, this static all but disproves your statement. Secondly, between Navy and Marine Corps, almost 40% of the class selects aviation. If we factor the “Half”, “handful, and “somebody” from your Medical Corps selection process description, we are well below the aviation percentages, and that would be if everyone in the class, medical prospects included, desired aviation. You are willing to bet? How much? I will increase your odds by stating that, as a percentage, aviation prospects have twice the odds of selection than do Medical Corps prospects.</p>
<p>
Very true. As per your scenario above, many give up in their attempt. This is called ‘self selection’ and skews the statistics greatly.</p>
<p>
My very argument from the beginning. I could not have said it better. Why would a high schooler, whose sole objective is medical school, subject himself to the extraneous and unnecessary rigors of the Naval Academy when he could more productively spend the time further better preparing for the requirements for medical school?</p>
<p>
Since Brown’s academic entrance requirements are similar to USNA and since they are not required to take Weapons, Navigation, and Seamanship courses, nor are they required to attend formations and march on a regular basis, again, I would ask you the size of your bet.</p>
<p>“I imagine” you are speculating about the impressiveness of a Naval Academy education in the medical school selection process. Perhaps, for some it will. Perhaps, for some there would be the apparent dichotomy of someone who either wanted to save lives (be a doctor) or kill people (fly jets). This is somewhat analogous to an Admiral Rickover question of many years ago of which I have first hand knowledge where the midshipman was waffling between aviation and submarines; “You’re just in the Navy for the extra money, aren’t you?”</p>
<p>Remember, this thread was started as advice to a candidate, not a rising first classman Chemistry major with a 3.8 GPA who only has to make it back to Bancroft on time every weekend to get selected.</p>
<p>The issue is self-selection. By the time service select time rolls around, most have a very reasonable notion about there chances. </p>
<p>Like all war stories here on CC, mine is anecdotal. But I know of 3 Mids who sought med school this season and did not get it. And each appeared to be top-shelf, outstanding. Again, speculative, but on their surface, each would have been stellar in civilian settings. Especially considering the enormous amount of time and effort that would NOT have been required for unrelated activities to getting an A in organic or the like. </p>
<p>And that’s the major variable, imo. Time. </p>
<p>Many scholarly Mids are frustrated at how little time and ex-curricular exposure they receive to their academic pursuit. </p>
<p>And some will debate this until the cows come home, but it is undeniable and oh so real. Thus if one wants an MD or a PhD in the near run, the odds are hugely biased toward NOT being a USNA undergrad. </p>
<p>And Memphis has many good points, one of which is accurate, but implies that USNA’s requirement in this regard is somehow different than Cornell’s or Grinnell’s …i.e. to work hard from day #1. This is true anyplace. </p>
<p>And it is my point of all the non-academic time required at USNA that disuades any real remedial work if/when it becomes necessary. My guess, and this one I’ve no real idea, perhaps others do …USNA is sorely disinclined to allow a redo on a C, B, or maybe even a D in chem. My guess is they would be sorely unsupportive of the idea.</p>
<p>You can’t throw a percentage out there, like 90%, which includes those who received their second choice, in the context of this discussion - where getting a 2nd choice is unacceptable. Remember - we’re talking about midshipmen coming to the Naval Academy as a primary goal of pursuing Medical Corps.</p>
<p>For a fair comparison you’d have to look at only those midshipmen who wanted to fly as their first choice and had to settle for something else - even if it was their second choice.</p>
<p>I’ll stand by my original statement. I’ll bet a higher percentage of those with “Air” as their first choice got something else as opposed to those who had “Medical Corps” as their first choice who got something else.</p>
<p>I agree with your statement that the pursuit of the Medical Corps is “self selecting.” If your only point is that it is more difficult to do well at the Naval Academy (and meet medical school standards) as opposed to another university - I would agree with that. And, yes, in that regard going to the Naval Academy would certainly be a hindrance in one’s quest for medical school acceptance.</p>
<p>Yet, my guess is that those who are dead set on achieving this goal are pretty special people to start off with. Either that, or severely deluded, with an unrealistic view of their abilities.</p>
<p>I have two sons currently at the Naval Academy and they have talked with a few of these Medical Corps “failures.” In each case, there is a “story” behind their failure to get in. In one case, it was a late decision. He did not come to the Naval Academy with any intent of going into the Medical Corps. He did well in his classes and, at the 11th hour, he decided he’d make a run on it. The Naval Academy seems to want you to step forward and identify yourself early … not for it to be an after thought.</p>
<p>In another case, the individual put Medical Corps as his first choice but he had not, as of yet, been accepted into any medical school and he only had a 3.4 GPA - good, but actually somewhat unimpressive for your typical medical school applicant. Plus, he seemed to indicate that he was disappointed with his MCAT scores.</p>
<p>There are many students who attend college with the intent of going “pre med” and going on to medical school who never achieve that goal. They are also, for one reason or another, left in the dust. They discover alcohol, free time, girls, parties, and the social life.</p>
<p>In some respects, for the serious student, the Academy experience can be quite beneficial. Also, at these civilian schools, there is intense competition (even sabotage) amongst the students trying to get into medical school. That does not exist in the least bit at the Naval Academy. There is no student-vs-student competition for medical school at the Naval Academy. There are generally fewer trying to get into the Medical Corps than there are spots available. And even those “spots” are very flexible.</p>
<p>Many medical school students are forced to do something else after their undergraduate education prior to entering medical school. Many of these schools want to see more dedication to the medical profession … maybe some research, shadowing a doctor, or simply working at a hospital in some volunteer capacity. Many of those “doubts” about the dedication of the applicant are resoundingly answered simply by virtue of the Academy education.</p>
<p>Let’s face it, there are many 3.8+ studs (and studettes) applying to medical school out there. In that competition, I think a Naval Academy student stands out.</p>
<p>Good discussion. You raise some good points. We probably agree more than disagree on this topic - but we seem to be looking at it from a slightly different perspective that only makes it appear that we disagree. :)</p>
<p>Whistle Pig makes some excellent points.
Medical school - I really am not going to get in the USNA debate but for anyone interested in medical school here is some food for thought:
Applying to and gaining acceptance to medical school is grueling and highly competitive - normally it involves a great deal more effort than aceing orgo and scoring on the MCAT.
Competitive candidates benefit greatly from a supportive undergrad experience. One that will assist in exploring and providing volunteer experiences such as shadowing a physician as well as MCAT preparation. You also need support from your school to attend med school interviews.
If USNA doesn’t support a potential medical school candidate in this way - then IMHO they would benefit and increase their chances to consider another undergrad institution.</p>
<p>West Point, I know does provide a great deal of undergrad support for those seeking medical school. Beginning plebe year, they provide mentoring and direction. There are also some applicable summer experiences available. The Army is different in the Navy in this respect. Also, at West Point, during the Junior year they choose which Cadets will apply to Medical School. If you do not have the blessing of the Army then you won’t get support to attend interviews etc.</p>
<p>Finally, those high school students who seek a career as a physician either in or out of the service should realize that most medical students do not matriculate directly from undergrad anymore. I think the average age of a first year med student is about 25 or 26.
Another career path is to attend USNA, serve for 5 years then attend med school.
If a career as a military physican is desirable then you can apply to USUHS as either active duty or a civilian. Civilians who apply get to choose their branch of service.</p>
<p>I think the pros and cons have been teased out across many posts. One considering the pursuit of medical school, with USNA as the conduit, would be well served to shift through EVERY POST to weigh out those pros and cons - most carefully.</p>
<p>Having said that, I would like to add further comment on a few statements that may or may not be true. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I would bet that the majority of students entering USNA would put themselves in that category on I-Day, regardless of where they see themselves heading. Where they sit at the end of 4 years is another story, even with the best of intent at the get-go.</p>
<p>
USNA will provide the necessary reality check, and in short order. </p>
<p>
One can only wonder how this student would have faired IF they did not have the other components and responsibilities associated with a USNA curriculum and REQUIRED demands on their time. Perhaps, without those added pressures, their GPA would be more competitive in the bigger pool of med-school applicants, which is the point many have raised. Again, if med-school is the goal, it would stand to reason one would be better served to give themselves the best advantage possible to prep for it. </p>
<p>
One needs only to look into the halls of Mother B to realize that is simply not true, despite our collective wish to “wish it so.” I will give you that it is “less” prominent at the USNA [ship, shipmate, self], however there are still plenty who put that sequence in reverse. Sabotage at USNA is most subtle and passive aggressive, and while not prevalent, enough of a presence to rear its ugly head each and every semester.</p>
<p>
As mentioned, over time it becomes a self-selective process. However, that is just the start of the process. Even the USNA grad needs to gain acceptance into Med-school, and that requires a certain GPA and MCAT score. USNA on the diploma only goes so far.</p>
<p>
No such restriction is placed on the civilian side of the equation. Grades not good enough for US med school? No problem! Apply to foreign med schools, then come back to US for your internship and residency. We get PLENTY of our interns and residents from that route each and every year! Again, an option from civilian undergrad programs- NOT an option from USNA or West Point.</p>
<p>In the big picture, there are better ways of accomplishing the “I want to be a doctor” goal, even with limited funds. NRTOC scholarship to a good undergrad school, with a true pre-med curriculum, will still get you on the path to med school with less demands on your time, and without the obligation to complete a core of engineering course work that is required at USNA, and still on the governments dime. My question to the candidate is WHY they are not seeking that route as a first choice IF medical school is the “desired goal.”</p>
<p>WHich brings me back full circle for sure.
Be sure of what you want, to the best of your ability, and then weigh the BEST ROUTE to get you there- most carefully I will add.</p>
<p>I concur …it would seem most of the issues have been ferreted out in this thread, and a good, healthy, even modestly civil discussion to boot.</p>
<p>One notion, and I confess it’s chest-pounding about the Mids we love and nurture …and it is based on some personal, 1st hand exposure to med school admissions engagement and I’m venturing to extrapolate its meaning …</p>
<p>All things equal or even close, a USNA kid gets the nod most everytime absent politics if it’s him/her vs. a relatively similarly profiled civilian student. And it may not necessarily be because the USNA candidate is “better.” It’s because of what they’ve accomplished, done, experienced in a vastly different milieu.</p>
<p>One of the glaringly critical factors concerning med school committees is the too-often absence of evidence of being able to consistently convey compassion, concern, caring bed-side manner. And no doubt, in some ways, ability to cope with the grossly magnified stress of USNA environment vs. Another U. would be point-USNA candidate.</p>
<p>I’ve heard my med school dean talk of this often, wishing some of the egg-head candidates had done something, anything more intriguing and relatable than the fascinations of the elemental table or delight of that physics experiment. </p>
<p>So, I’m done beating this swine-flu ridden pony. GO NAVY! GO ANY/ALL MIDS w/ hearts and heads and hands set on becoming LT. Ben Casey or Capt. Kildare. We’re all for you!</p>
<p>until that is placed front and center on med-scool curriculums, it will not change. Which is not to say it is sorely needed.</p>
<p>Ability to cope-
unfortunately, the nod to US med schools is given to diversity [big recoopment dollars] and ability to pay [thus, overwhelming numbers of foreign students]. There is no lack of either. </p>
<p>What I will post as a consideration is to answer “why”…“why do you want to be a doctor?”
the prestige [and dare I add, respect] is limited to US society, and that is eroding quickly with managed care and public performance reporting.
the money is increasingly eroding, under managed care, capped payment systems,and increasing costs of malpractice [so much so that nearly EVERY OB guy I know have given up their practice]…
and unless you are heading for a speciality [which the government will not pay for- you get straight internal medicine or general surgery last I looked, UNLESS you continue to tack on DECADES of time you owe back] your salary will not in any way compensate for the dollars spent on getting you to this point, or the workhours it will take you to make a decent income based on current reimbursement payments- which, by the way, are heading in one direction- and that is DOWN. And don’t even get me started on Obamacare.</p>
<p>Noble profession? Sure.
Make sure you see that.
If you see ANYTING BUT THAT then go elsewhere.
Think carefully.</p>