<p>My friend is trying to decide between Middlebury and the UofC, and has to have made her choice by Tuesday. She wants to go to Med School, and I'm trying to dig up some data for her, but I haven't been able to find it. Does anyone know what Chicago's med school placement/acceptance rate is? Also, does anyone know if Chicago favors its own students when it comes to applying to Pritzker?</p>
<p>Search pasts posts with key words like "med school" and "pre-med." We've had a number of discussions on this topic.</p>
<p>I spent a while doing researching/using the search function, and while I did come up with plenty of med school advice, I didn't see any mention of a specific placement rate.</p>
<p>From the 2002 U of C Health Professionals Handbook:</p>
<p>
[quote]
What is "enough" GPA? Professional schools do understand the rigorous nature of our College curriculum and look carefully at the transcripts of our applicants. In 1998, the National average GPA of those matriculating to allopathic medical schools 3.58; from the College 3.48. This was the lowest for any college in North America, and clearly indicates that the professional schools appreciate and understand the rigor of the curriculum you have experienced here. In 1999, students from Chicago who scored the national average (~8) or higher on each section of the MCAT and had a GPA equal to or greater than the College Deans List (3.25) had a 67% rate of acceptance. With a GPA of 3.30 the acceptance rate was 75%. So, making the Dean's List should be a goal for you.
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</p>
<p>Maybe this should be crossposted with the thread on the math placement test, but I have a hard time understanding how the aveage GPA of those matriculating could be 3.48, but a GPA of 3.30 leads to a 75% acceptance rate, unless the distribution of those matriculating is very skewed?</p>
<p>I think those numbers make sense. There are few students who get the 3.8s with o-chem and physics and all the rest, especially since these classes are likely graded on a curve. The next paragraph, if I remember correctly, says that those who don't get in with a 3.3+ GPA and average+ MCATs didn't plan for med school very well (such as showing genuine interest in medicine or planning out appropriate applications).</p>
<p>Thanks for the information.</p>
<p>Also, doesn't AMCAS (?) recalculate GPAs? The Chicago A-s that a student earns become As. So, if a student has a Chicago GPA of 3.3, his/her AMCAS GPA would actually be higher. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.</p>
<p>Sorry, but you are wrong. AMCAS does not "recalculate GPAs", nor the medical schools either. An A is an A, whether from Chicago or elsewhere. A GPA of 3.3, is not adjusted by any formula ( and is significantly low for med school acceptance ) A Science GPA is calculated, just taking into account science courses ( most Sciences GPA are lower that the total GPA because of the easy courses that are taken to inflate the overall GPA sometimes ) However, there is something called Academic Index, which is a formula that takes into consideration MCAT scores and GPA. Having a low GPA, would push down your academic index as well, compared to another student with similar MCATs and higher GPA.</p>
<p>If one searches recent threads on this topic in the UChicago forum, one will find an entry by an individual who is on the admissions committee of an east coast med school who claims that all schools are not treated equally. The author states that the grading policies are indeed considered and that a lower GPA at Chicago is considered as a higher GPA elsewhere.
[quote]
On the admissions committee we <em>definitely</em> pay attention to what the grading situation is at a given college or university. It is not unlike the considerations given to undergraduates coming from different high schools. If an applicant's GPA seems "low" during discussions we check where they are from and if it is from one of the large public institutions OR a place where we know there is no grade inflation (like Chicago or JHU, for example)-- all is OK. It's only fair. And I know we are not unique in this approach.
[/quote]
<p>The statistics show otherwise. Everything else being equal, the reputation of the school may become a factor. It could probably come from a favorable impression from the interviewer (if he/she happens to be particularly impressed by the undergrad school the applicant is coming from, etc. That's the personal touch of the application) However, I regret to tell you that the analysis is very numeric based for the most part. That's exactly the reason why there is a separate Science GPA calculated and a formula, like the Academic Index, which was also developed to be used by ALL med school adm committees. </p>
<p>A lower GPA at Chicago, is not considered as a higher GPA elsewhere for med school admissions purposes. It may not be fair, but that is just the way it is. The admission process does not allow for such a degree of subjectivity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The statistics show otherwise.
[/quote]
Actually, they don't. The University of Chicago in the last year I have information for had the lowest average GPA of med school acceptances in the country, meaning that Chicago students are accepted to med school with lower GPAs than students from other schools. The most obvious reason would be that lower GPAs from Chicago are considered on par with higher GPAs from other institutions.</p>
<p>In another data point, the head of admissions at a top med school recently told S that one could "subjectively" add about .3 to a U of C GPA for comparison purposes.</p>
<p>Also, a current discussion in the Parents Forum describes the situation where the reverse was true. An individual with a 3.6 GPA was told by a med school admissions office their GPA from Williams would be readjusted to a 3.2 as compared to another school! Sounds like there is a little more subjectivity to all this than the med schools want to admit publicly. </p>
<p>@corranged, some school is just going to have the "average lowest GPA" from any given list. It just happen to be Chicago! I believe that your conclusion is contaminated by a touch of rationalization.</p>
<p>@idad, the head of admissions at an ivy league med school recently told S that one does not "subjectively" add anything to a U of C GPA for comparison purposes. He stated that it would be great to have something like that worked into the formula, but that unfortunately it is impossible to do.</p>
<p>
[quote]
@corranged, some school is just going to have the "average lowest GPA" from any given list. It just happen to be Chicago!
[/quote]
Soo... The applicants from the University of Chicago just happen to have low grades compared to everyone else who applies but still get in for reasons that have nothing to do with the fact that they all come from the same school? It's just some crazy coincidence that a school known to be very difficult and demanding gets students into med schools with low GPAs--with no consideration for where the GPA comes from? Suuure.</p>
<p>serchingon: The key word here is "subjectively." Look at the earlier quote by the individual on an admissions committee, "If an applicant's GPA seems "low" during discussions we check where they are from and if it is from one of the large public institutions OR a place where we know there is no grade inflation (like Chicago or JHU, for example)-- all is OK. " It as at this point, not at the GPA calculation point where the school makes a difference. This would also account for corranged's statement. S recently spoke with a major west coast med school admissions committee member as well, and got the same reply, they do take into account where one goes to school.</p>
<p>@corranged: Students with lower GPAs than U of C's do get admitted to med schools, and once again your generalization is grossly inaccurate. There is a subjective aspect to each application and where the student comes from plays a role as well ( especially during the personal interview ) However, contrary to what some people have implied, there is no "numerical factoring" to compensate for a low GPA from a tough undergraduate program. It is not done. The subjective factor can not be calculated and it is a tremendous detriment to some applicants, especially with all other factors being roughly equal.</p>
<p>That is what micromom was asking and that is to what I am replying to. Let's avoid rationalizations. I do get where you are coming from, for suuuure.</p>
<p>@idad, Of course they do take into consideration where the student is coming from, however, you have implied that there is some formula to compensate for that , and there is not one. The whole subjectivity makes it worse when the non subjective factors (GPA, MCAT, Academic Index)are dramatically different.</p>
<p>S recently spoke with a major southern med school admissions committee member as well, and got the same reply: The extent of taking into account where one goes to school, is negligible when one is comparing high caliber institutions. It is very subjective and individualized. S was told "do not rely on your school name for a med school admission"</p>
<p>I'm going to interject here because some of you guys seem to be talking past each other. </p>
<p>FWIW, I have have been directly involved with med school admissions for many years (I am the person idad is quoting above), my deepest involvement is with MD-PhD admissions (which are inordinately competitive, as you can imagine). While I obviously cannot say anything about specific programs and while it is always "dangerous" to generalize, there are some pretty basic approaches that are followed by many med schools.</p>
<p>First and absolutely foremost --- you must excel wherever you are. Period. No matter where you go to college, if you are trying to get into medical school with a 3.0 average, you will have difficulty doing so. Impossible? No. But tough. You have to do well in your course of study.</p>
<p>Many schools do utilize a "first-pass" algorithm based on numbers (GPA, MCAT, etc) --- it's unfortunate, and maybe some folks from schools where there is little grade inflation get weeded out, but it does occur. It's the only way for many places to make the huge applicant pool manageable. BTW, the algorithms can be quite different from school to school (as well as the cutoffs)-- any they are not just GPA-based. Note that more attention is being paid to the verbal/writing aspects of the tests AND non-science grades of late-- we hear the complaints about MDs who are unable to communicate with patients. We take this seriously.</p>
<p>Once students get through that first pass --- virtually everything is on the table. Again, just like getting into college-- med schools can fill their classes with 4.0s. This is not what we want. Granted, we want to take people that can do well-- the first two years of med school are still very course heavy and challenging, but it's not rocket science. Medical schools are under a ton of pressure to train many types of doctors -- compassionate practitioners, talented surgeons, academics, etc, not to mention the next generation of health care leaders on all levels. Medicine is not a trade, is an intellectual and yes, often artistic pursuit--- and many, many different types of people are needed to fill these roles. Admissions officers are trained professionals and putting together classes that can fulfill our important responsibility to safeguard the health of all citizens is a painstaking process. Part of the job of admissions officers is to know what an individual GPA means -- and they do. Period. </p>
<p>My advice is straightforward -- pick a college that will allow you to become the type of educated adult that you want to be. Find the place where you can fit in, learn, ENJOY YOURSELF and excel. No school is going to "keep" you from getting to medical school -- <em>you</em> will keep yourself from going. And maybe once you get to college you will discover that you don't want to be a practicing physician-- maybe instead a physician scientist (this is what happened to me)-- opportunities at one of the great research universities will make the difference in fulfilling that goal.</p>
<p>I will also add, that in my experience -- the part of the process that knocks many students out of the running is the interview. These interview flame outs are very depressing, but they happen with some frequency . From graduates of all types of fine universities. Take them seriously.</p>
<p>Finally, regarding U of C students -- we hold them in high regard here. My own daughter is a junior and will be applying to U of C EA. I am thrilled by this. She is not applying as a pre-med, but if she was, it would never, ever cross my mind to dissuade her to "better" her eventual med school chances. Not even close. </p>
<p>Good luck to those who are embarking on this road-- it's a long and ultimately rewarding trip, but never compromise your educational goals to fit some "possible" med school yardstick. It's not worth it.</p>
<p>JT</p>
<p>Serchington, I never stated that there was a numerical recalculation. You seemed to be implying earlier, though, that the college would only matter in an interview if you were speaking with an alum or if all else were equal. That is incorrect, as the numbers show. If all else were equal before school was taken into account, then admitted applicants from the U of C would have GPAs equal to applicants from other schools.</p>