medical school advice for a BME major ( junior) about EC and course work.

My daughter wants to try medical school now.
Good gpa so far (>3.9)
already taken 2 semesters of general chemistry , and physics (both with lab), biostatistics, calculus III, one semester of animal physiology and one semester of mammalian physiology ( no lab in either bio ), one semester of writing for research, one semester of psychology ( taken online in a community college only course that is done in CC). one semesters of culture and music.( sociology requirement?).

Can finish one semester of org chem with lab and biochemistry next year before graduation.

Does she need one more semester of English?.Is community college psychology good enough for medical school? Need to take bio lab ?. So many questions. Do appreciate any valuable feed back.

  1. not all medical schools will allow her to sub her physiology classes for intro level bio.
    She will need to contact the admissions office of every med school she hopes to apply to individually and ask.

Also she needs to be aware that there will be tons of topics included on the MCAT that were not covered by those classes. She will probably need additional biology coursework before the MCAT. (She needs exposure to cellular and molecular bio, and genetics at a minimum.)

See: https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/article/whats-mcat-exam/
At the link, there will a list of topics tested in each section of the MCAT

  1. the no bio labs will be a deal breaker at every med school in the country. Bio labs are a hard requirement.

  2. yes, she will need a second semester of writing for most schools–preferably a semester of freshman comp. or other basic writing class.

  3. Psych at a CC will usually be OK. The online part may be an issue at some medical schools. Check the MSAR to find out each med school’s policy on the acceptability of online classes. Most med schools will not accept online coursework for pre-reqs-- though this appears to be mostly about online science coursework

  4. the culture and music class won’t be useful for the sociology portion of the MCAT. The topics tested on the MCAT are more about how class and other social constructs affect healthcare and healthcare delivery. Check the link given above in #1 to see what sociology topics will be tested on the MCAT. She may need an additional sociology class. (An intro level class or one focusing on the sociology of healthcare.)

  5. having the right ECs is critical for any med school applicant. She will need ALL of the following:
    –clinical exposure (paid or volunteer)
    –non-medical community service with the disadvantaged
    – physician shadowing, including with primary care physicians
    –leadership roles in her ECs

nice to have, but not critical:
–hands on research experience (clinical or bench science)
–teaching, teaching assistant or tutoring

Without the appropriate ECs, her application simply won’t get any consideration.

Thank you very much @WayOutWestMom.

As always your advice is precise and clear. Really appreciate it .So to be in a good standing my D needs to take
1.cell bio with lab,
2.org chem with lab
3.biochemistry
4. semester of English with writing
5. semester of sociology
6.semester of psychology.

She should take MCAT before June 2021! I wonder how she is going to manage that!)

She is trying to get into some meaningful EC opportunities so that she can fully understand what is it like to be in this demanding medical profession. Will see how it goes.

Has good record in research and is a paid tutor for URM in engineering.

Not much community volunteering.

@rockyboston

Each college publishes a document listing all the pre-med courses a student need to take and will give the specific course number of that school, if any other courses done else where or AP is acceptable or not etc., In general need to do all the pre-req courses listed by them to get the committee letter later when applying.

Based on your post, taking a gap year will help than stretching since many courses which are needed for MCAT is not yet done.

Also it will help for your child to get involved in clinical volunteering and in that process to validate if the medical profession is the right career for her interest.

If the remaining pre-reqs won’t fit in your D’s schedule before graduation, she can always take them after graduation as a part-time, non-degree student at a local college. Since she has a strong UG record she could probably even take some (psych, soc, writing) at a CC and not have it ding her application. But her sciences should be done at a 4 year college if at all possible.

The majority of med students do not matriculate directly into med school immediately after college any longer. Most take one or more gap years to finish pre-reqs, improve GPAs (if needed)and strengthen their ECs.

She should NOT take the MCAT until she has completed all pre-reqs and had 6-12 weeks of dedicated study time to prepare for the MCAT.


Right now your D should prioritize 2 things:

1) getting some clinical exposure--both volunteer clinical experiences and physician shadowing

She needs to decide ASAP if she really wants to spend the rest of her life ministering to the sick, dying, chronically ill, physically or mentally disabled, mentally ill, and demented elderly-- plus their families.  It's not something everyone can handle. It's better to find out sooner, before she invests a large amount of time & money pursuing med school.

2) start non-medical volunteering with disadvantaged populations--preferably off campus and outside her comfort zone. 

Medicine is a life of service to others.  Altruism and compassion are traits very much expected in doctors. Adcomms will want to see a clear demonstration of her willingness to serve others, esp the poor and disadvantaged.

Thank you @goldenRock for your valuable feedback.

My daughter’s medical school interest just emerged in the last few months.

So your advice "to get involved in clinical volunteering and in that process validate if the medical profession is the right career for her interest " will be her first step.

She is focusing on her BME courses this semester.

@WayOutWestMom

very valid advice. Thank you.

I have couple of questions .

1… How is the Science gpa calculated for non science ( liberal arts students and engineering students) majors by the medical school?only the premed science courses are taken for the science gpa calculation in that case?

  1. I understand two of the reco letters should be from science faculty. how do non science majors mange this?.
  1. Only BCPM classes are included in sGPA calculations for everyone regardless of major.
    B= biology
    C= chemistry
    P= physics
    M= mathematics

Official AMCAS course classification guide here:
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fastly.net/production/media/filer_public/e5/68/e5687e03-f55e-4ce6-a4e4-892eaab328dc/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf

  1. Non-science majors have taken BCPM classes to fulfill their science pre-reqs for med school so they ask one of those professors.

Thanks @WayOutWestMom

She should talk to her premed advisor. It actually sounds like she hasn’t;t take most of the pre med courses. It depends greatly on the school, only some schools will accept her CC credit. She might want to consider statistics, will likely need a second semester of ochem, another of physics, and intro level buolocurses (2 semesters). Her advisor would be able to giver a list of premed requirements.

@WayOutWestMom
With the Covid situation, every class ( even organic chemistry and lab ) is given online in most of the universities. So what will happen to argument " the online part may be an issue at some medical schools.".?

Every medical school will make its own decision about the acceptability of online classes and labs during this pandemic semester.

Some have already announced that they will honor coursework taken online for the spring 2020 term; others have not made any official announcements.

But there is no universal policy right now.

Although many (most? all?) medical schools may be willing to accept online coursework from spring 2020 classes, it’s unlikely they will accept previously taken online coursework unless they was their policy before Covid-19.

I would expect this to be the case as well as allowing pass/fail for at least this semester. This has been a very unique experience for most medical schools which had send their own students home.

Some medical school has explicitly advised some pre-meds not to take CR/NC (equivalent to P/F) option if regular A-F grade option is available. With CR/NC ( credit or no credit option), GPA calculation will be affected, hence advised not to take for S 2020.

@grtd2010 – FYI – several top schools have mandatory pass/fail grading this semester, so kids have no choice.

Yes, when a school says entire semester grades are pass/fail, that problem has to be recognized by medical schools, especially if the students are juniors who are applying now and have no recourse to make up.

Thanks for your detailed appropriate timely advice WayOutWestMom and texaspg.

My daughter is finishing her premed requirements this year. She is planning to take MCAT next summer before starting her full time job, next fall in industry.Planning to work for 2 years before (hopefully )starting med school . she has good gpa, published research experience , TA / tutor experience and leadership and non clinical volunteering .
She has no clinical experience or shadowing experience because she did not start college as premed. She just got her CNA certification and is planning to work as CNA during this summer and weekends next year .
How many hours of shadowing is needed?. The virtual shadowing opportunities, are they good?. Any advice will be appreciated…

Virtual shadowing is not an acceptable substitute for in-person physician shadowing since the student isn’t able to see a the whole “day in the life” of a physician.

@rockyboston Why take 2 years off to work if she is taking her MCAT in summer? When will she apply?

What is your home state vs where daughter will be working?

Reference point of 1 but my older daughter didn’t spend a single hour of medical volunteering but she spent time on doctor shadowing and researching with doctors. So it depends on how strong the rest of the application is.