Meeting Harvard Representatives before the Admission Deadline

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>"Guess our lot was classified as mere tourists at Harvard, but because no other school could possible have tourists, we must have been prospective students and their families at MIT."</p>

<p>Of course every school has prospective students. But Harvard has to cope with the special challenge of, quite literally, thousands of daily tourists as WELL as prospective students and their families. Every single day there are multiple commercial tour operators using the Yard without the school's control, in addition to Harvard-run visitor tours AND prospective-student tours (Harvbard operates two separate tour programs year-round). It's a real can of worms to try to let the prospective-student tours into buildings without letting everyone else in, too.</p>

<p>"the school he attends will not believe in sticking him in an ivory tower and protecting him from the lower echelons who don't belong"</p>

<p>You clearly have your mind made up. Would seeing one empty classroom (none of which look that special, in my recollection) really have changed your impression? I happen to think that Harvard could do a better job accommodating prospective students in the summer. But suggesting that they ought to leave buildings unlocked in that urban setting, or interpreting a mostly-outdoor tour as a message from Harvard that you are "riffraff" and an "evil outsider" from the "lower echelons"...I think you're reading a lot into this.</p>

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<p>I think you are being overly harsh, Crazy Mom. There are many kids of students at Harvard, just as there are many kinds of people in the world. I am one who will always offer to take the photo of a family I see posing so both parents can be in the shot. My son, otoh, is just not inclined to have that sort of interaction; it's just not his nature. He is a little shy and, as we used to say, likes to fly under the radar. He is a relatively private person (he has never posted a photo of himself on Facebook), and I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect people to respect that. As far as exposing yourself to to people who are different, he has new friends from around the U.S. and other countries; I don't see what's to be gained by exposing yourself to a group of tourists. (I did hear of a student getting out of bed one morning and finding a group of them peering through his window; fortunately he was wearing boxers and not completely exposed.)</p>

<p>As far as the food goes, even on Freshman Parents Weekend it was pretty mediocre. I do think it tends to be a little better in the houses, where the students live after freshman year. My son bemoans the fact that, even with Harvard's huge endowment, the dining hall does not offer name brand Cheerios. (If you're looking for great food, look at Cornell.)</p>

<p>I can understand your frustration at not being able to see more of the campus. (Our son had an opportunity to look around with someone he met a a summer program the summer brfore he applied.) I'd be happy to try to answer questions if you want to PM me.</p>

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<p>


I never said your son could easily attend an overnight visit, I said he can easily sign up. It takes one phone call the the admissions office, and then he's set. I never mentioned his ability to get there, so if you guys can't afford it, that's really none of my business.</p>

<p>


I interact with the world on a daily basis, I do go to school in a slightly urban area with 6000 other people. My only issue is with adult and young adult tourists stopping me every second on the way to class to take a picture. And, I have never seen little kids touring the Yard. It's one thing to take your own pictures and put them on facebook, but it's another thing to have tourist after tourist ask to be in a picture with you simply because you go to Harvard. It really makes one feel like a zoo animal or circus attraction. Also, since when is interacting with the tourists the key to having a fulfilling college experience? Harvard does a great job of admittting all kinds of students, so we do have the opportunity to to interact with people different from ourselves.</p>

<p>


I'm sorry that you find me elitist. You're probably the only person who's ever told me that. I only commented on this thread to explain why Harvard does what it does. But as Hanna said, it is clear you already had your mind made up that Harvard is this crazy place where the students don't interact with anyone who is not privileged enough to go to Harvard and where the school fosters this type of environment. And both of those things are completely untrue. I don't think outsiders are evil. I don't even think of the tourists as outsiders. I gladly give directions and help to any tourist who asks. It's the excessive picture taking (if I am in the picture) that I'm not a fan of. </p>

<p>And, btw, Cambridge streets do have street signs.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>I don't get that comment. My D, who is a sophomore at H, frequently is stopped by tourists and other visitors to the campus, and she gladly and cheerfully answers questions, gives directions, and yes, even on occasion, poses for photos with them. (Some visitors have told her they want a photo with a real live Harvard student.) When she's running late, she may not have time to offer much help, and I suppose those who are looking for an "elitist attitude" may see what they're looking for in her unwillingness to make time for them on those occasions. </p>

<p>As for what prospective students are shown on official tours, I've now done tours of more then 20 schools with my children, and the content of the tours varies a lot. I could probably find a way to see what I wanted in any one of those tours based on what they showed us and what they didn't.</p>

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<p>I am going to join this discussion. In the interest of full disclosure, I have to note that my DD is a freshman at Harvard. Allow me to first say that I agree with crazy mom that the Harvard tour, as opposed to the information session, was not the best of the schools that we visited - we visited Harvard in August of '06. The office of admissions was very hard to find, and, as Crazy Mom described, we experienced lawn mowers in the yard that drowned-out the tour guide (interestingly enough, the same thing happened when we visited Stanford). During the tour, both my DD and I were taken aback by the number of tourists that were in the vicinity of the yard. There were, in fact, two bus loads of Asian tourists milling around and taking pictures of everything they could. The Harvard tour was also very limited in scope: the yard, including the infamous statue (no, we did not touch the foot); the science center, described by the tour guide as an ugly building (we were able to hear that); we were allowed to peek through a window at students eating in Annenberg; and assorted facts and figures about Harvard. All in all, the tour was a disappointment, and DD remarked that there were far too many tourists around. There were, in fact, more tourists than students when we visited, and the few students that we saw were trying to get out of the way of the hordes of tourists.
Fast forward to the pre-frosh weekend in March or April, where DD overnighted with a Harvard student (I have a suspicion that her host was someone who is a regular on CC), ate at Annenberg, walked around when there were fewer tourists, and liked what she saw.<br>
Another fast forward to ten days ago when we dropped her off and got to meet some of the students and their parents. While helping her move into her room, which faces the yard, I could clearly hear from her room the tour guides and their entourages going by, and memorized what they said about the room where JFK used to live (no longer there, it was destroyed to make way for an elevator...). I said to myself that I would hate to have to hear that every Saturday morning. I know that this is anecdotal, but the young people and their parents that we encountered were not elitist, and were quite a diverse group. Oh, and as I was taking a picture in front of the "pit" in Harvard Square, a young man came up to us and graciously asked if we wanted him to take a picture with all of us in it.</p>

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<p>"Other schools don't have the thousands of tourists Harvard has to try to accommodate every day."</p>

<p>There are really other schools that do have to accommodate thousands of tourists a day besides Harvard. Really. It is presumptuous to believe otherwise.</p>

<p>"As a Harvard student, I can attest to the fact that the tourists are SUPER annoying. "</p>

<p>Because tourists are super annoying, the answer is to prohibit prospective students from getting a real tour of the campus in the summer, the only time some of them can go. I imagine there are other annoying people at Harvard besides tourists. Although banning annoying professors from entering buildings might not be a bad idea.</p>

<p>" . . suggesting that they ought to leave buildings unlocked in that urban setting"</p>

<p>I did not suggest that, although do they lock all of the buildings during classes? Isn't the school still in an urban setting then? We have gone on at least three other visits where the tour guides had keys to locked buildings.</p>

<p>"And, btw, Cambridge streets do have street signs."</p>

<p>About every other intersection. However, the 90 degree turn on Brattle Street is neither marked, nor included in the directions that Harvard provides.</p>

<p>"And, this obviously isn't the breaking point for a lot of people, because Harvard still gets thousands of tourists every week and thousands of applications every year."</p>

<p>And here is the real problem. Harvard simply sees no reason to try at all. Throw all prospective students and their families who can't visit in the school year in with the tourists and keep them all out. It would be more helpful simply to say they don't have tours, it would then be truth in advertising.</p>

<p>"I never said your son could easily attend an overnight visit, I said he can easily sign up. It takes one phone call the the admissions office, and then he's set."</p>

<p>I'm sure if I was a Harvard student, I would understand how this distinction is helpful. I'll ask him if knowing he can easily set up a visit he cannot possibly attend is a comfort to him.</p>

<p>"Harvard does a great job of admittting all kinds of students, so we do have the opportunity to to interact with people different from ourselves.</p>

<p>Yet, the same as ourselves in one important way: admitted to Harvard.</p>

<p>"But as Hanna said, it is clear you already had your mind made up that Harvard is this crazy place where the students don't interact with anyone who is not privileged enough to go to Harvard and where the school fosters this type of environment."</p>

<p>I never would have had him go on the trip if I had that preconception. However, the shoddy treatment people received, as well as the comments here, have given me serious concerns. As I stated in a number of places, the information session was great. The tour was disrespectful to all of us. People traveled from other countries for this? And yes, the treatment was shoddy. As I said previously, if you actually did as they said you could and used the restroom before the tour, you were in trouble. An older man who spoke broken English did just that and got separated from his daughter and granddaughter, who must have left right away with the tour guide. He asked several people for help and received none. My son, who knows some Spanish, suggested he follow us to the yard, and we found his family in another group. After the tour, another family asked some passing students where the library was and they just kept walking. The tour guide took off too. Some of us pieced together maps we had printed off the internet to help.</p>

<p>"Would seeing one empty classroom (none of which look that special, in my recollection) really have changed your impression?" </p>

<p>Yes, because it would have shown that they were at least making an effort. i think the fact that thousands apply sight unseen is why they make no effort.</p>

<p>"I happen to think that Harvard could do a better job accommodating prospective students in the summer"</p>

<p>Thank you. Finally some acknowledgment, rather than using the tourist excuse. I am quite sure that the tourists are a problem, but other schools have that problem too. Is the solution really to ban prospective students from entering buildings in the summer?</p>

<p>And finally to MSMDAD, thanks for a balanced perspective. Someone who acknowledges that there are problems in the way that Harvard handles prospective students. Someone who sees both sides of the picture. Since I have been given no opportunity to see the other side, I appreciate your opinion.</p>

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<p>Remember Harvard is New England- a great setting but also inclusive of great resources and accomplishments, but without a long tradition of Southern hospitality. If those qualities are important to you, perhaps looking at Emory, Duke, Washington U will provide a warmer, more welcoming, more complete experience. </p>

<p>If your son is part of the lucky 9% admitted to Harvard, and he is financially eligible for a large aid package, the admissions office will offer him a paid trip to Pre-frosh Weekend in April (around the 22). He will then see classrooms, dorms, savor Annenburg cuisine, and most importantly, meet future 2012 classmates. He can then determine if it is a good fit for him. In the meantime, one might contemplate the realities of Ivies- they are not consumer goods replete with guarantees of perfection, but historical institutions full of amazing people, incomparable resources (a Gutenburg bible, more than 10 Rembrandts at the Fogg,etc.) as well as institutional shortcomings. </p>

<p>As for street signs- yikes- have you ever been in Europe, Mexico or the American Southwest?- there is rarely complete signage. Cambridge is well-marked, but still the roads are old cowpaths so not as easily read as a mid-western grid town. </p>

<p>One of the best qualities a college freshman can bring to school is flexibility and tolerance for the different. The class of 2011 is not marred by having in common being accepted - they are just an amazing group of varied individuals with unique talents.</p>

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<p>Honestly, if your son cares to apply and is accepted, he won't care what the classrooms look like, there ... or anywhere. Does it really matter? Would he not choose to attend because he didn't see a classroom or a dorm room? </p>

<p>I think it's more important to look at the general environment. Would he be comfortable on an urban campus? Does the proximity of Boston appeal to him? What about streets filled with people? </p>

<p>On another note, Harvard does not hold anyone's hand in any fashion. While it's a great place, I can't say it's the most nurturing place. (It is not for the faint hearted!) If your son, or even his family, is looking for that, look elsewhere. Wash U would be a good start. (And I am not saying that unkindly; I am just speaking truthfully.)</p>

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<p>Oh, and we were in the clueless group who did not know not to touch the shoe. Our tour guide said it gives good luck in the admissions process. Eeeeew. But it worked!</p>

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<p>There may not be name brand Cheerios, but the waffle irons do all have the Harvard crest. (No comment!)</p>

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<p>Classrooms! I took some classes in the basement of Sever Hall many many years before it was renovated. In winter, we would trek in with our wet shoes, take off our socks and hang them to dry on the heating pipes. We would then whip out our notebooks and class would begin. I took some exams in Lowell Hall, again before it was renovated. There were not restrooms for women. In freezing January weather, women had to dash across to Memorial Hall to use the restrooms. For all that, I had a grand time.</p>

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<p>Goes to show, Marite. Life on campus (or anywhere) is what you make it! :)</p>

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<p>I don't think he is too worried about name brand cereals, but he does have several food allergies. As for his interests in classrooms, I think this is a combination of his high school experience and a college we visited that had recently built several high-tech classroom buildings. My son has a visually impaired friend at high school, as well as a friend in a wheelchair, and our high school does not accommodate either of them very well. When we were visiting another college, the tour guide (who was assigned to just our family) took us in some of the classrooms and showed us some of the technology they installed to asssist disabled students. My son was impressed that they were using their resources to help students and teach them better, as opposed to putting their large endowment all toward research. Thought it showed some of the priorities of the school.</p>

<p>Thanks for the helpful info Fauvre. I didn't know they would pay for that weekend in April.</p>

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<p>Harvard has a number of buildings that are not wheelchair accessible and do not even have elevators (S was in such a dorm in his freshman year, on the fourth floor). That said, Harvard provides great services for students with disabilities. One young acquaintance of mine sprained her ankle last year. She ordinarily lived on the third floor of a House without an elevator. She was moved to one in another House on the ground floor for the duration of her recovery. There is an office of disabilities that is very helpful.
Google Brooke Ellison for a story of how a quadriplegic flourished at Harvard. She wrote a book, and Christopher Reeves produced a movie from the book.</p>

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<p>To be clear, they will pay for that weekend in April if your family is quite economically disadvantaged. </p>

<p>I have seen at least one visually impaired student at Harvard with a seeing eye dog. They do seem to be accommodating.</p>

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<p>The University of Virginia website </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/uvavisit.html[/url]”>http://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/uvavisit.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>has been updated some more and includes more details of exact places for its joint meetings with Harvard and Princeton scheduled for dates when other colleges are busy dealing with early round applications. :)</p>

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<p>Have any of you from Canada been to one of the joint Ivy League meetings in Canada yet? One meeting in Alberta is tonight; some meetings in Nova Scotia and Ontario still coming up. I don’t see any participation by Harvard confirmed on the Harvard website </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/travel_schedule/index.cgi[/url]”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/travel_schedule/index.cgi&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>for those meetings in Canada, but the meetings are listed by Princeton </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/visitprinceton/on_the_road/[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/visitprinceton/on_the_road/&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>and Penn </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/yourtown/session.php?region=canada[/url]”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/yourtown/session.php?region=canada&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>and Columbia </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/events/intro.php#international[/url]”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/events/intro.php#international&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>as joint meetings at which Harvard is expected. Check those meetings out if you live in Canada and are interested in Harvard.</p>

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<p>An Exploring College Options joint meeting at which the Harvard dean of admissions and financial aid spoke is the subject of an article in the Boston Globe. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/09/27/at_elite_colleges_new_aid_for_the_middle/[/url]”>http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/09/27/at_elite_colleges_new_aid_for_the_middle/&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>(Thanks to CC participant marite for posting the link on another CC forum.)</p>

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<p>For what it’s worth, I was at Harvard last weekend and the crowds of tourists were literally oppressive. Tour buses lined up along Mass Ave., hordes of people milling around, “unofficial” tours leading throngs of (obviously) not prospective college students… I was stopped twice by little old ladies asking for directions to the “gift shop” in broken English. </p>

<p>I would honestly consider the tourists to be a negative factor in any student’s decision regarding which college to attend. It may be “presumptuous” but I’ve been to lots of colleges in various circumstances, but I’ve never seen anything like the mess at Harvard yard, possibly because the tourist impact is concentrated in that one small area. Of course, the weather was nice; maybe it’s less impacted during the winter.</p>

40

<p>Yes, there are lots of tourists in Harvard Yard; they affect…other tourists the most, in particular those who are doing the tours (but do not consider themselves tourists). Although they can get in the way of students going to class or locals trying to get to the T station by the shortest route, cutting through the Yard, the crowds are a very minor irritant, a fact of urban life. S and his friends appreciate the density around Harvard Square.</p>

<p>I would not make it a factor in deciding whether to attend or not (but then S decided against some colleges because they were too suburban).</p>