Meeting with the Admissions Dean

Graduate School Law School
21

Why, particularly if you have an interest in California?

A 160 LSAT is below W&Ms median. Unless you have a 3.75+GPA, your odds of admission are low. Moreover, with below average stats, you will not receive any merit money. Can you pay sticker?

ABA 509 reports show clerkships, both state and federal.

http://abarequireddisclosures.org/EmploymentOutcomes.aspx

IMO, don’t waste your money on any more informational interviews. LS is a numbers game. Get above median numbers first, and then check out the school.

22

hmm, just searched your other posts: A 3.5/160 is just not competitive for W&L. At best you will be wait listed and if offered a position, you would pay sticker. Not worth going under that scenario.

GL on your LSAT retake.

Otherwise, consider law schools down the food chain, such as Pepperdine or UCI.

23

I’m painfully aware of my low competitiveness numerically, especially as it stands with my current LSAT. I didn’t have a ton of time to thoroughly invest in studying for the LSAT during my last attempt, but I have exponentially more time this round that in hoping will substantially improve my score.

With respect to GPA, while it doesn’t necessarily change much, I feel like I should qualify the 3.5 a bit. I was a double major (public health and PoliSci) taking courses in entirely unrelated fields, so my unit loads were always massive (consistently 18-21 units with a max of 27 the fall of my senior year). There is also a strong upward trend, particularly evident my senior year. The 3.5 also does not include the 27 quarter units I took at UCSD as part of their paralegal program, where my GPA was a 3.8. I know that it doesn’t really change the numbers per se, but these are all things that the dean said will be considered during review. I will also be attaching an addendum about a particular semester when I had a since-resolved medical issue that cause my grades in a couple classes to slip.

It’s also worth noting that, during the 27 unit semester, I started a 501©(3) international nonprofit that has generated over $30,000 in economic impact, stabilized schools in Zambia, and developed perpetual funding sources for schools, students, and teachers in Africa. This work earned me multiple prestigious awards/distinctions from SDSU. Other extracurriculars would include being the treasurer of a major student org (where I managed a $20k grant from the University), serving as a Court Appointed Special Advocate for a foster child, working for the San Diego County Assessor’s Office, being both a lead and co-presentor at the student research symposium, and teaching in Africa. Again, these may not play as big a role as LSAT score or UGPA, but they are all things that the dean said are considered when evaluating applicants.

As for why W&M, there are a bunch of reasons. My long term goal is to get involved in international law, with particular regard to post-conflict management and human rights in either the governmental, supragovernmental (UN), or NGO sector. W&M is close to DC (where there are a plethora of organizations that I would be able to work for), close enough to NY that I’d be able to work for somewhere like the UN or other major Corp without losing the uni’s name recognition, w&M has a massive international alumni network, an international law concentration, professors that have quite literally done the exact jobs I’m hoping to get, is well-respected, has an incredible history, and is in am affordable area. There are higher ranked schools on the Eastern seaboard, but it’s not really reasonable for me to forecast getting a high enough score on the Nov to make those viable options. At least here, I don’t have to increase my LSAT too much for it to be a solid possibility. I mentioned CA for two reasons: 1) it’s my home state and thus a default backup plan (immigration and CR/CL are also great passions of mine that are prevalent in CA) and 2) CA’s notorious bar exam (at least it’s notorious in CA) helped qualify the published average bar passage rate. As was pointed out, each state has a different level of difficulty on the bar, and I wanted to have something to compare the average to.

24

Except that none of that matters. 95% of law school admissions is about two numbers: GPA+LSAT. USNews’ rankings drives all; USNews does not report on rigor or course load, so its a non-factor. If you are below both medians, you have a low shot of admissions. The rest of the app barely matters. (The EC’s are like tiebreakers between applicants once you are over the medians; so yes, they are “considered”.)

As I and others have mentioned on your other thread, international law is not a real thing. At most, its an elective or two. But, for those unicorn jobs (“supragovernmental”), you need to attend a T14, such as Harvard, Columbia or even Georgetown – schools with big names internationally. W&M just aint’ gonna get you there.

Again, do you have teh cash to pay sticker?

Sorry to burst the bubble. There is no rush for law school. If you don’t have time to prep now, prep next year.

25

cw: if you search for the websites that show law school numbers, you’ll find that W&M has had a hard cap of ‘no’ at 160 for all GPA’s under 3.7.

26

I agree with bluebayou.

LSAT matters.

GPA matters.

Pants don’t matter.

27

As I’ve said, I’m aware that I’m not competitive with my current LSAT score. Hence why I’m taking it again. W&M is not the only school I’m applying to, it’s just my top choice for the aforementioned reasons. As for international law, that’s a concentration they offer with over 20 offered electives, each of which I find incredibly interesting. While “international law” itself may not be a thing, it encompasses a variety of areas of law that do exist (human rights, national security, int’l trade, post-conflict resolution, humanitarian law, etc.). Those subsets are what I’m interested in. Because I haven’t studied in those specific fields yet, I’m not comfortable committing to one in particular; hence why I say I’m interested in international law instead of a more narrow subset. That being said, I’m open to various other areas of law (appellate, certain types of tort, discrimination, juvenile dependency, and others). I’m hoping my courses, the various clinics, journals, and other ecs at whatever school I end up going to will give me a better idea on my niche.

With respect to sticker price, W&M is currently doing a special thing with early admission students where all those that are accepted automatically get a full-ride. It’s not merit based or anything like that. Plus, even at full sticker price, it’d be cheaper than staying in CA, paying in-state tuition, and paying rent. Barring a particularly high LSAT score, which I don’t anticipate, I don’t plan on getting any merit scholarships or anything like that, regardless of the school.

28

I have no delusions about my competitiveness and merit. I know I have an uphill battle, even with a strong LSAT score this Nov. I went on this tour with the specific purpose of both learning more about the school and for demonstrating commitment and passion for the school, should my score be high enough to bring me to a waitlist. I didn’t wait until after the test because I have a break from school and work; a break I don’t anticipate will last long. This trip is also a vacation and an opportunity to visit family and a school I’m looking at for MPH.

29

Law school “concentrations” are a scam. They exist only to sell prospective law students on a school’s alleged qualifications. Actual employers do not care, but law schools know that students don’t know, and take advantage.

Also, you can be interested in whatever, but if the question is “can I get a job in X” then the issue significantly narrows. Almost no one can get a job in “international law” because there aren’t very many of them. Those that do tend to be top of their class at the top law schools or have other connections to get around it.

30

As I had said, I’m open to various areas of law and I won’t be able to narrow my options until I have more experience in classes. These are just courses that sounds interesting and that I’m curious about. I get that there aren’t a ton of jobs explicitly in “int’l law” and those that do exist are few and far between. I’m also looking at getting an MPH and possibly DrPH focusing on health in crisis and humanitarian aid and would be happy working in either of those fields on an international level; something a JD with multiple courses in subjects like post-conflict resolution/terrorism/human rights/etc. would supplement nicely. Truth is, I’ve tried planning my future down to the specialty before and the whole thing fell apart in under two years. I’m not trying to pigeonhole myself into a specific focus right now; I’m just trying to experience what I can, explore my interests, and learn what will work best for me. W&M offers courses in most of the areas I’m interested in, is affordable (even without the scholarship), close to where I’m hoping to get my MPH, close to DC, and has professors with career paths that I could envision myself taking.

31

cwhittaker22, thank you for taking the advice about what to wear. You also come across as being very prepared and asking the right questions. So I think that you’re doing everything right, and you’ll have a strong future in law.

I would also agree that concentrations in any specific field of law aren’t particularly helpful in hiring or career development. I have little memory of the classes that I took in law school and even less memory of ever learning anything useful in them. I would just go the best school in California or New York or, given your interest in international matters, in or near Washington, DC- but once you’re enrolled, take classes that you’ll get great grades in because so much of law firm and other hiring is grades-based.

Best wishes, and I’m pulling for you. It’s just so refreshing to see an applicant on this board who thinks deeply about a lot of elements of law school and takes advice (you)!