<p>sally, I agree it is a nasty allegation, one that I personally don’t believe, but let’s not pretend this isn’t a common stereotype. No specific “your”, I’m merely adding that lawyers in general are often stereotyped as greedy and other adjectives I’ll politely decline to mention. So the OP wondering how the “greedy” and “arrogant” applicants of today will fit in with the current generation of lawyers is kind of funny. Do you think that the current generation of lawyers (those in practice now) have reputations for being kind humanitarians? I’m afraid not :)</p>
<p>Think big $$ from big law is easy money???
I just forwarded this posting to my cousin who works in one of the largest law firms in Manhattan.
Why did she laugh so hard?
Because she graduated magna from Pace, top 10% from Fordham law (Intell. Property), and was head of her moot court society (a pretty big deal at Fordham)… She is probably one of the most driven and dedicated people I know, and she does love the law profession.
She works 8am to 6 or 7pm M-F, with 2 to 4 hours of ‘home-work’. Then is at the office every Sat morning for research for a god 6 hours… and often spend 6 hours on Sun at a law library or reviewing case files at home. She estimated about 65 hours in office, 20 to 30 out.
She has been doing this straight since passing the bar and being hired in late 2007. Her starting salary was in the neighborhood of 130k.</p>
<p>(And she loves it when she talks to he and I tell her about bartenders and nightclub hosts here in Vegas who make 150-200 a year, in 40 hours a week)</p>
<p>Vegas - </p>
<p>I don’t think anyone on this thread said that big $$ from big law is easy money. Instead, the thread said that applicants who are focused only on big law - big money - status, are naive about how hard the work is actually going to be. </p>
<p>Don’t be surprised if your cousin shows up at your doorstep in a few years…hey, I might even be there myself someday! If she ever decides to have a life or a family, her working hours (which are common) make it tough. Her hours are not unknown to me, even after practicing law for 30+ years. </p>
<p>Being driven, dedicated and loving the legal profession are absolutely great character traits for a lawyer.</p>
<p>It’s one thing to be driven and want to make a lot of money but another to be so arrogant and pompous as a Columbia JD to look down on a Northwestern JD as an inferior person the way many on here are describing is done in these threads. That kind of activity it seems has become more prominent than in decades past and I don’t think the reason has anything to do with the increased cost for law school.</p>
<p>I don’t think that too many attorneys with Columbia JDs look down on attorneys with Northwestern JDs, as you suggest. I’ve certainly never known anyone who felt that way, particularly when the two attorneys from the two different law schools are working for the exact same law firm. </p>
<p>That said, I would certainly not put it past many of the very prestige-obsessed high school and college students on these boards to believe that the difference between the number 4 law school on a US News list (in one given year) is tremendously better than the number 8 (or 9 or 10) law school on that same US News list.</p>
<p>i understand that biglaw is a lot of hours, but i cant help but feel that many of these stories are exagerrations. the story described above about someone’s cousin, for example. no one can consistently work 100 hour weeks for such a long time. maybe hectic weeks are like that where there are a lot of deadlines, but i find it hard to believe that someone can consistently work like that for over 5 years. from what i’ve been told, its more cyclical, with some months the average is 80 hours a week but others its closer to 60 or possibly even 50. its just hard to grasp how someone can work the schedule described above over a long period of time…</p>
<p>Medical residents are capped at 80 hours a week – but 5% of programs are in compliance with the regulations, meaning the vast majority of them work more than 80 hours a week. Neurosurgery programs have an exception and are capped at 88 hours, and many programs are not in compliance with that, either. And these are historically much, much lower – so much lower that many programs are adding years to compensate for the dramatically reduced hours.</p>
<p>Hate to say it, but there’s an awful lot of folks out there who work very long hours. It’s definitely not impossible.</p>
<p>Mitssu87- </p>
<p>Based on my experience as an associate with a mid-size but highly rated firm, working 12 hr days was common during the week with at least 6-12 hrs on weekends. If working on a big project, longer hours are always expected. As a corporate lawyer, I typically still work 10-12 hr days, and put in at least a half-day on weekends. </p>
<p>You either get used to it, or you burn out. (It’s something that lawyers complain about to each other all the time with a certain amount of pride in our stamina.) I’d guess that the successful partners who would be hiring associates would be looking for employees with the same kind of dedication, diligence and billability that earned them their own partnerships.<br>
As SallyAwp noted, nothing irritates a successful, dedicated lawyer more than new lawyers who expect to earn big bucks without putting in that same effort.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that lawsuits, deals, client demands etc. do not lend themselves to scheduling. If a litigator, you don’t have only one lawsuit at a time. If working deals or mergers, you might only be working on one big merger at a time but there are always many drivers and deadlines that need to be met. Our time belongs to our clients.</p>
<p>To think that people do not consistently work 75+ hours a week is naive.
I have directors and vice presidents in my company that work 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week. And they are working in the hospitality industry, not saving lives in a hospital or working on multi-million dollar litigation.
And my cousin works for reed- smith, one of the most important law firms in the country, if not the world. Her ‘team’ had billable hours for January well into 8 figures… and you don’t think these people are working 100 hours a week?</p>
<p>(Divide 150k a year by 90 hours a week, and tell me if your still interested in big law)</p>
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<p>Actually, during weeks when you are called upon to work several all-nighters (and, of course, all while going home to shower, take a nap for a couple of hours, and then to head back into the office) or travelling from city to city on business, you can easily bill more than 100 hours a week. Unfortunately, I have been there. Those 100+ hour weeks will often come one right after another, followed perhaps by a 75 hour week (which will seem like a vacation in comparison). Rarely, if ever, did I average 50 hours a week for a month or more, unless I had a week of scheduled vacation (which would be a 0 hour week – actually, maybe a 20-30 hour week, given that you often did have work to do while on vacation) somewhere in the middle. </p>
<p>In fact, right now, after so many layoffs by law firms, I am starting to hear that the associates who remain at some firms where the cuts have gone deep are now just getting pummeled by the amount of work they have to do. Now, they are happy for the work, as a busy associate is less likely to be a fired associate, but there are folks who are working some long hours these days. As the economy recovers, whenever that happens, I’m sure there will be a period of time when law firm associates are going to be working incredibly long hours until new associates finally start (though new first year associates are pretty useless for substantive work without significant supervision) and until law firms start hiring lateral associates again.</p>
<p>It can be a brutal life. Don’t write off these tales as fluff until you’ve been there. I have, and it isn’t always pretty.</p>
<p>I’ve hired for BigLaw for decades and there’s only one thing I’d like to add to this thread. I’d like to call to your attention the incredibly good work done by those lawyers and firms on behalf of the poor and on behalf of causes that they believe in. Most of those law firms devote thousands of hours every year to doing things like helping poor women fight eviction or filing amicus briefs on behalf of excellent causes. It is because of the resources made available by the BigLaw firms that their lawyers can change lives. You can’t have a full picture of BigLaw without adding in this element, as well. Doesn’t negate the other things said on this thread, but it is absolutely a part of the reality.</p>
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<p>If you read any of the threads on xoxo, you might think differently.</p>
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<p>What make a law firm the most important in the country or in the world?</p>
<p>I agree with what Sallyawp and Zoosermom have said. The stories of incredible hours are real. I worked in biglaw before going into recruiting and there were never enough hours in the day. I have also observed the generosity of attorneys with their time committed to both pro bono and charity work. My impressions of the attorneys with whom I work on a daily basis - mostly from biglaw - are quite positive.</p>
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<p>I suspect that not too many young BIGLAW lawyers, working the kinds of hours they do, would have time to post on xoxo. I suspect that it is prestige-minded high school or college students making the comments putting down Northwestern Law. I stand by my statement that very few lawyers actually working in law firms who graduated from Columbia Law care what law schools others attended, and that even fewer would bother to put down Northwestern Law.</p>
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<p>Of course, not many people are consistently working near this much right now. Check the Above the Law surveys, for example. A large percentage of associates didn’t bill even 2000 hours last year, which doesn’t require anything even close to 75 hours a week. Plenty of associates are leaving work at 6 every day, wondering if or when they’ll be laid off. If you’re consistently working over 75 hours a week, you’d have to be billing well over 2500 hours a year, which is rare.</p>
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<p>It seemed that a fair number were gainfully employed associates or law students with job offers in hand.</p>