My HS Senior ACT 34 (combined) 36 English, 3.9 Unweighted GPA, EC is Choral Music & Theater (all 4 years) is only now (late November) realizing he needs to be a little bit realistic about his prospects, but Merit Aid deadlines seem to have mostly passed (e.g. UGA, where his mom and I went, with generous aid). He should get something from a FAFSA school, but CSS Profile schools want both his mom’s and my info, which will probably kill most need based aid, due to her assets.
So I am stumped. He emphatically does not want to go to a school with less bright kids, like where I teach and he is currently taking 2 college classes plus voice lessons (avg ACT 22).
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/
(but check school web sites to verify)
For good merit scholarships, one generally has to look at schools where one is at the high end of the range of incoming student academic credentials.
Why would he get anything from a FAFSA only school? Is his custodial parent low income? What is the income of his custodial parent? Are you the custodial parent??
Sounds like you’re a professor, so your income would likely be too high for federal aid, if you’re the custodial parent. And sounds like the mom is affluent.
Unless his custodial parent is lowish income, he wouldn’t get a dime in federal aid.
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He should get something from a FAFSA school, but CSS Profile schools want both his mom's and my info, which will probably kill most need based aid, due to her assets.
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If he applies to Alabama now, he’d get free tuition. app is quick and easy. About 40% of the school has an ACT 30+, so your son would be around a lot of strong students.
Is he a GA resident? If not, then I’m not sure what merit aid you’re talking about there. GA schools rely heavily on HOPE for merit.
Sounds like your son is a Minnesota resident. Does UGA give OOS merit? I don’t think they give generous OOS merit.
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UGA, where his mom and I went, with generous aid).
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?? Were you grad students? What generous aid did you get from UGA as undergrads? Were you instate??
Pitt’s deadline is Dec 15 for merit, but might not be affordable OOS.
What instate schools have the program he is interested in?
There are smart kids at ALL colleges.
The deadlines for many applications for admission and merit awards is December 1.
What are his stats, and what does he want to major in?
He has the stats to get auto merit at University of Alabama? Deadline is by December 1, but I understand the application is not a difficult one to complete…and neither is the scholarship application. And there are plenty of smart kids there.
Will the non-custodial parent be contributing to college costs? If not…why?
Most schools requiring the Profile are more expensive private colleges. The exceptions would,be if younare instate for Michigan and UVA which both require the Profile.
I hear you about smart kids, we even have some here at hardly a selective institution. 34 ACT 3.9 GPA. Multiple AP and College in High School classes already. He is undecided, maybe computer science, chemistry. Alabama is a good suggestion. There were certainly smart kids at Georgia and I am sure Alabama is similar, despite the “southern” reputation. Mom figures I should pay, I suppose. Though EFC is higher for son on her FAFSA than the son on ours. “But that’s just one opinion of how much we can afford” I am sure would be her response. (I did say ex-, didn’t I?)
Son wants to go to a high ranked school, understandably enough, I suppose. He had his ACTs sent to Harvard and MIT. It’s getting hard to get him to come down to earth.
Harvard and MIT will require the income and assets of both parents via the Profile and the non-custodial parent Profile.
Just encourage your son to cast a wide net. There are students with his stats who,do NOT get accepted to Harvard and MIT.
More detail: I went undergrad to two privates (ran of money/scholarships at Swarthmore and U Chicago) Undergrad U of So Maine. (Ex) Spouse got her undergrad at U Georgia while I earned Ph.D. She got instate tuition (plus scholarships) just by declaring intent to reside and getting a local drivers license, so OOS tuition wasn’t a problem then). Wife and I make too much for Pell, but with 5 kids between us - 3 in college next year - the FAFSA treats us pretty well in terms of EFC. But CSS Profile would see both my nice retirement plan and ex-spouse’s assets, so the “no merit aid” schools - like Carleton, locally - would not treat us well, I suspect. And an ACT of 34 3.9 GPA is a big yawn at that type of school. He’s applied to the U of Minnesota, but I’m hoping not. He’s not very mature (at 17 who is?) and UMN has consistently had the worst retention and graduation rates among the Big 10 or other comparable schools. Nor do they seem to have any special scholarships or programs for him. He could go to UW Madison just as cheaply, due to tuition reciprocity. I want to see him at a LAC, where 4 years of choir and acting will give him a hook, even if he isn’t a music or theater major. Other than maybe St. Olaf, every LAC I know of would like an extra tenor. Most of these schools have trouble keeping male enrollment over 40%, if they admit it. Thanks for the posts, though.
If your retirement plan is a tax deferred real,retirement plan…the balance in that account is NOT used in the financial aid calculations. The amount you contribute in thentax year (2015 if you are completing. 2017-2018 forms) is added back in as income…but the amount in those retirement accounts is NOT counted as an asset. Yes…the Profile for some schools asks for that balance… but they don’t use it to calculate aid.
It is speculated that the schools look at that retirement account balance relative to,your income…just to see if you were over investing in retirement when you could,have been saving for college. But there is NO evidence that the balances in those accounts are used to compute need based aid.
Price limit?
LACs that may be of interest with low cost, even without scholarships:
University of Minnesota - Morris
Truman State (has some automatic-for-stats scholarships as well)
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Wife and I make too much for Pell, but with 5 kids between us - 3 in college next year - the FAFSA treats us pretty well in terms of EFC.
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I don’t think you understand. Even if with 3 in college and an EFC of - say - $10k per child in college, a FAFSA only school may not give you one dime of free money, even if the school costs $40k.
You don’t seem to understand that.
FAFSA is a fed aid form. Schools don’t have to do anything with EFC except see if you qualify for fed aid, and you don’t qualify for any free money from the Feds.
You seem to think that colleges have to respect EFC and give you money to cover much of the cost. NO THEY DON’T and likely they will NOT.
What a school gives a PhD student is irrelevant. What UGA did for your wife as an undergrad eons ago is irrelevant. UGA has strict instate rules and merit is now largely awarded thru HOPE (instate) which is why UGA has very few OOS students…very few. No money for outsiders.
The elite schools will require incomes of ALL parents and their new spouses. As mentioned, you won’t qualify for aid because exW has a lot of assets and you and your new wife have strong incomes.
You need to run the Net Price Calculators on each school’s website, BUT understand that the ones that require CSS profile will not be accurate since you would only be inputting your own household’s numbers.
Have you and your exW told your son how much EACH will contribute each year? If not, do so right away so he’s not punched in the gut in the spring when ALL of his schools reveal that they expect you all to pay all or nearly all cost (regardless of what your EFC says!!!)
Please insist on a couple of “parent picks” and have your child apply to a couple of schools where FOR SURE he will be awarded HUGE merit so that the remaining costs are what you can afford.
If you find a couple of schools where FOR SURE your child will get AT LEAST full tuition scholarships, then the REMAINING costs will be about $15k per year (room, board, fees, books, travel, misc). Your son can borrow about $5k and you’d have to pay $10k.
How much CAN your household pay towards EACH child’s college cost?
Does your household CURRENTLY have students in college? What are their EFCs for THE CURRENT school year and what aid are they getting? What schools do they attend? If they attend an instate school, then perhaps they are also getting some state aid? Or school aid?
The fact is, most FAFSA-only schools really only have fed aid to give for need based aid. Some might have some state aid.
Believe me, if your OOS child went to UGA, he’d get LITTLE of NO FREE money from UGA for need-based aid. IF YOU don’t believe me, run the NPC
I just ran the UGA NPC. Now, it has 2013 tuition info, so those numbers would be significantly higher for 2017…
But, I put in that your family earns 100k and that you’ll have 3 in college.
Even tho your EFC for EACH of your college children would be about $7k per child, UGA still estimates that you’d be paying over $30k per year (really more since the tuition number is out of date)
I did the above because you don’t seem to understand that an EFC that is beyond Pell will mean little aid at a FAFSA only school.
The Feds cannot and do not expect or require schools to give students more aid just because their EFC is modest.
FAFSA EFC is essentially meaningless when you don’t qualify for a Pell Grant. And even with a Pell Grant, that isn’t much either.
^^^^ Yes, listen to mom2collegekids!!
So are you indeed a professor? Does your college offer tuition exchange?
Definitely listen to @mom2collegekids.
FWIW, I have a student who was very advanced in high school (graduated with multiple 300 level math and physics credits) who is currently a jr at Alabama. He loves it there. He has great professors who are equally wonderful mentors. He has a great group of friends. He is taking grad level physics courses b/c he finished his UG physics courses as a sophomore. He has been actively involved in research since his freshman yr. He is doubling in math and taking a lot of stats and courses like game theory for fun.
Too late to add this to my earlier post…
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<<< Wife and I make too much for Pell, but with 5 kids between us - 3 in college next year - the FAFSA treats us pretty well in terms of EFC.
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I forgot to clarify. You seem to think EFC really means Expected Family Contribution to the colleges. No. That’s not what that means. EFC is a misnomer. It’s some crazy calculation dreamed up by the Feds that means little/nothing to colleges.
It is not a calculation that tells colleges what you’re only supposed to pay. For example, you have a FAFSA EFC of$7000 per child, you seem to think that is what your kids’ colleges will expect you to pay. Furthermore, you seem to think that the colleges will fork over the rest of the cost.
Absolutely not.
You can have an EFC of $7k at a school that costs $50k and that school might ONLY give you a $5,500 loan…PERIOD.
So, looking at it that way, how is FAFSA EFC treating you pretty well???
I think you’ve got the entire process backwards.
But here is a thought to get you all on track:
1- you need a meeting with your son’s mom. If you guys can’t stand to be in the same room, or on the other end of a modem, then find a neutral party to mediate. You need to get down on paper (NOW- while there is still time to create a realistic financial list of applications) exactly what each family is prepared to contribute for years 1, 2, 3 and 4. Your numbers may be very variable depending on the timing of your other college aged kids. But it is imperative to look at a four year funding plan. I cannot tell you the number of kids I know who are on their second and third college right now through no fault of their own (i.e. did not flunk out, did not plagiarize). But their divorced parents came up with a plan for Freshman year which was unsustainable for the rest of college. So sophomore year the kid transfers to state U. Then that becomes unaffordable- kid now lives with one parent and is commuting to a local branch of the state system, by senior year kid drops to part time… Ugh. Don’t let this be your kid.
2- You need to run the NPC’s for each and every college on the list. A college which offers zero merit, and is unaffordable based on the numbers you input- frankly, waste of an application. You may be able to swing an extra $200 a month? whatever by cutting back, but nobody can trim their way to 65K per year. That is not a plan, that’s a fantasy.
3- You need to sit down with your current wife and make sure she is on board with what you plan to commit to your son. No fair telling your son you can swing 30K per year out of pocket if the real number- once you and your wife have reviewed your finances- is actually 15K.
4- You need a quick phone call to your college’s HR department to have them send you a copy of your benefits. Maybe you have a tuition plan you don’t know about with reciprocity.
5- Your son needs to own some of this. The divorce, the ex-wife, the current wife- that’s on the adults. But a smart, talented, ambitious HS senior needs to be driving the bus which includes considering finances and reality.
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. I cannot tell you the number of kids I know who are on their second and third college right now through no fault of their own (i.e. did not flunk out, did not plagiarize). But their divorced parents came up with a plan for Freshman year which was unsustainable for the rest of college. So sophomore year the kid transfers to state U. Then that becomes unaffordable- kid now lives with one parent and is commuting to a local branch of the state system, by senior year kid drops to part time… Ugh. Don’t let this be your kid.
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@blossom is soooo right about this. I, too, know a number of kids who’ve had this happen. Not all have been kids from divorced homes. Intact families also often wrongly assume that a higher payment amount is affordable. But then life happens, and the house needs a new roof, or a new car needs purchasing, or something else, and their student has to leave their college. Suddenly, aid and merit opportunities dry up (most are only for incoming Frosh), and the only affordable school is one where the student can commute.
LACs with merit money and top STEM could include Grinnell – though merit would probably be insufficient to bring cost of attendance to a reasonable range. To get full tuition merit at a LAC, you are looking at US News ranking starting after 50 or so – perhaps at Earlham, Lawrence, Kalamazoo, Knox, Beloit, Wooster. I am guessing about full tuition possibilities at these schools, as my own test optional kid got 1/2 tuition awards, as musician/artist/athlete. We appreciated that a number of these midwest LACs are lower list price than east coast schools, with total cost often closer to $52-54k rather than $65k, so made those schools more affordable. Denison does give some full tuition awards, though I don’t know whether a 34 would put an applicant in that range or not (at a Denison admitted students day, my kid met some kids who had gotten full tuition award and were choosing between Stanford or Ivies and Denison – those were some very impressive students).
At a public flagship, a strong Honors program which includes special advising, dorms, activities, could help provide structure for a less mature student. We were very impressed with University of Iowa Honors, and Iowa does give automatic merit awards to OOS students, looks like it is currently $10,000, which brings cost of attendance down to about $29,000.
UW with tuition reciprocity is a great deal. UW Honors would not necessarily provide the same structure and support as at some other schools, as it is more of an “a la carte” program, and does not include Honors-only housing – so a student has to choose to engage with the special activities. At the same time, a learning community like Chadbourne could offer much of the same benefits.