<p>Great to hear. Thanks, Suze.</p>
<p>Wildflower, what year are you? rising sophomore, junior or senior?</p>
<p>IF you are a rising senior, you should probably avoid the ML internship. Can you tell us more about Morgan Stanley and Smith Barney's internship opportunities? which division(s) are you in? MS has both regular brokers as well as M&A analysts, we need more details in order to help you.</p>
<p>dcfca, a real PE/Boutique/BB internship after sophomore year is very ambitious! :)</p>
<p>Rising sophomore -- done with frosh. Pretty much like dcfca. I was actually thinking something along those lines: use this in order to demonstrate an interest in finance, and then pursue paid i-banking internships in between soph/jr and jr/sr years.</p>
<p>I look at it as a way to learn the basics; but don't want to do something that may end up being detrimental in the long run. I don't know nearly enough about i-banking or even finance for that matter. Hence, my concern. </p>
<p>The recent offers are pretty similar to ML's: branch office internships. Although, I heard people, at both places, saying that maybe I'd get paid -- but they said it very casually.</p>
<p>Edit: I was actually not planning to do an internship this summer; but at the last minute decided to contact a couple local branches and voila -- my dilemma. lol.</p>
<p>Wildflower,</p>
<p>So I presume your offers are within the private wealth management/brokerage sectors of both Morgan Stanley and Solomon Smith Barney. Even if MAYBE you get paid, I suggest you to narrow the choices down to MS and SSB. At some of the interviews I've had, I was asked if I got paid for my past internship. It seems like that the interviewers value a paid intership more than an unpaid one, given that they involve similar tasks and responsibilities. If you are getting paid, the Human Resource person is probably not wasting his/her money and definitely makes sure that you DO something productive for the company so the money doesnt go into waste. If I were you, I would choose Morgan Stanley. It's a larger and the most prestigious firm out of all three firms. The investment banking division of Morgan Stanley is harder to get into than that of Merrill Lynch or SSB. The top tier wharton students all aspire to work for M&A/S&T/IBD division of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, some even look down on Citigroup...etc. So having something Morgan Stanley related is better, if you eventually want to work for them. Maybe you won't learn too many technical things, but you will be exposed to the firm's unique working environment/atmosphere...etc, and that helps. At least your future MS interviewer can say: "hey, this kid has worked with people whom I share similar personalities with, and he did fine there, so he'll probably be a good fit". Top investment banks, such as CSFB, strongly emphasize on FIT. Also, let's say you decide to work for a small privately-held firm when you graduate, Morgan Stanley's name looks more impressive than Merrill Lynch and SSB.</p>
<p>Wildflower why do you think you got these internships?I'm just curious because I'm trying to get one as well. What school do you go to, what were your grades like, did you just phone up?? oh and I would choose Morgan Stanley but thats just because of the banks reputation.</p>
<p>hmmm...b/c I'd be working for free? lol. </p>
<p>Well, I think it was mix of things: good grades (3.75+), excellent extra-curriculars w/ lots of leadership, well-written resume and a very good interview (as far as I am concerned). </p>
<p>But again, it's not I-Banking and there is no money involved; nor am I required to be there full time. I think it'll be a good experience, though. I am thinking about supplementing it with another PT, paid, internship; but that's still in the works. </p>
<p>And yes, phone calls and emails. Lots. But I did it a bit too late (last week!). I was actually planning to go to Middlebury for language study, but that fell through.</p>
<p>By the way, untilted, thanks for the post; however, and ironically, the unpaid internship with ML seems like a better opportunity to get down and dirty. Conversely, the paid one gave me more of a "you'll be a glorified gopher" vibe.</p>
<p>By the way, what are some prestigious regional Investment Banks? Does anyone have a list/link/website with this info?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>The regionals have mostly been bough out by the big guys. The exception is there are some PE firms in places where the MDs want to live, like Omaha. I think dcfca misses the point that internships build on each other. There are very few things you would learn working retail that would make you more attractive to those hiring for ibank jobs. To be blunt, many ibankers would think that you were not much of a go getter to have done the retail internships. They advertise all over for those positions and are happy to have kids from almost anywhere because it costs them nothing. Ibanks hire kids and make an investment in them. There are training sessons, if an MD likes you, you'll be taken all over the world and get to sit in on amazing meetings. They take you to great restaurants, give you Broadway tickets and everything else they can think of to get your loyalty. Back to the point, most ibankers will have a hard time understanding your retail stint. To them a go getter ibanker type would not be likely to have done that. They see retail as a dead end and the bulldogs they're looking for are not likely to have passed though.</p>
<p>Suze, can I PM you?</p>
<p>I thought this was a good response to the NY Op-Ed: </p>
<p>I believe the guy is an Economics professor at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>On a different thought, would a PWM internship look ok for non-IBanking job? Most especially, strategy consulting? Or, would it still add certain "stigma" to one's profile?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The regionals have mostly been bough out by the big guys. The exception is there are some PE firms in places where the MDs want to live, like Omaha. I think dcfca misses the point that internships build on each other. There are very few things you would learn working retail that would make you more attractive to those hiring for ibank jobs. To be blunt, many ibankers would think that you were not much of a go getter to have done the retail internships. They advertise all over for those positions and are happy to have kids from almost anywhere because it costs them nothing. Ibanks hire kids and make an investment in them. There are training sessons, if an MD likes you, you'll be taken all over the world and get to sit in on amazing meetings. They take you to great restaurants, give you Broadway tickets and everything else they can think of to get your loyalty. Back to the point, most ibankers will have a hard time understanding your retail stint. To them a go getter ibanker type would not be likely to have done that. They see retail as a dead end and the bulldogs they're looking for are not likely to have passed though.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Regionals have been bought out by the big guys? What are you talking about, there are plenty of regionals out there -- especially ones that focus on specific areas for the region. In Texas you will typically see a few investment banks that cater towards the energy industry.</p>
<p>As for it being a dead end, I've looked at resumes of people who are now interning at Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc many of them have done a PWM internship that space between freshmen and sophomore year, some even have went on to have PE jobs right after graduation.</p>
<p>Your internship during high school was a rarity. I'd say that a BB internship during your freshmen year would be a rarity too -- unless your related to/have friends of the family who are connected with the BB. </p>
<p>I'm not saying that the PWM internship is a great one, but I'm saying that there aren't a lot of internships open for kids during that time (between fresh and soph) and so it's one that has potential, and one that I've seen that has worked for those who do it. </p>
<p>Here are some example paths of what people have done during the summers-->
[quote]
Citigroup Corporate and Investment Banking
Summer Analyst, June 2006</p>
<p>Sony Connect
intern</p>
<p>UBS Private Global Wealth Management
intern, September 2005 - May 2006</p>
<p>Northrop Grumman
Intern, June 2005 - September 2005</p>
<p>Harvey&Co
slave, May 2005 - June 2005
[/quote]
Here's a kid from Wharton:
[quote]
JP Morgan Chase
Sales & Trading Summer Intern, May 2006 - August 2006
Trader.</p>
<p>Citigroup Private Wealth Management
Summer Intern, June 2005 - August 2005
[/quote]
This individual doesn't go into banking but they do pick up an internship in VC along the way-
[quote]
Draper Fisher Jurvetson - DFJ Element
Venture Capital Analyst, May 2006 - present
Venture Capital analyst focused on renewable energy / clean technology markets.</p>
<p>A.T. Kearney, Inc.
Senior Business Analyst, September 2004 - May 2006
Promoted to Business Senior Analyst (13 months)</p>
<p>Market Entry Strategy, Competitive Analysis, Business and Product Development, Salesforce Effectiveness, Organizational Redesign, and Customer Profitability.</p>
<p> Developed market entry strategy and customer segmentation for $2.5 billion water utilities company entering commercial services marketplace: lead consultant for competitive analysis, working directly with senior director of strategy.
Led twelve member utilities client team for development and implementation of $50 million of new products and services. Business plan development included market sizing, financial modeling, engineer capabilities assessment, risk mitigation, M&A/partnership assessment, and go-to-market strategy.
Prepared organizational re-design and consolidated spend analysis for $200 million marketing division of 3rd largest global beverage and confectionary manufacturer.
Developed new go-to-market strategy and salesforce effectiveness for $3.2 billion industrial cleaning products company. Created customer cost to serve/profitability models, time-audit spreadsheets, and customer interview guides.
Conducted market entry assessment and competitive analysis for $4.5 billion outsourcing company moving into Document Management BPO arena: lead consultant for competitive analysis and industry assessment.</p>
<p>PNC Asset Management - Equity Research Division
Summer Financial Analyst, May 2003 - September 2003
Covered high technology/software, entertainment/media, restaurant, and automotive industries.</p>
<p>Formosa Venture Capital
Summer Analyst, April 2002 - September 2002
Conducted due diligence, financial analysis, and strategic assessments for investment in angel/early stage technology and healthcare companies.
Worked on 10 live deals, with investment of over $14M. Projects include Future Networks (acquired by Telelabs for $180M in 2002), IC-Media, Fortel DTV, Intelytics, Iventurelab, **************, and Mobile Aspects.</p>
<p>Intelytics, Inc. (an iventurelab firm)
Strategy Analyst, May 2001 - September 2001
Developed marketing plan, product development and pricing models for Internet Privacy Protection software firm.</p>
<p>Merrill Lynch PWM
Summer Financial Analyst, May 2000 - September 2000</p>
<p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As far as i'm concerned, these individuals weren't screwed over because of the lack of prestige of the first college internship they've ever completed. Rather, they were able to get bigger and better internships and it worked out.</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence is pretty useless. That said, everyone gets to choose their path. And yes, having contacts can be very important. An alum hires a few from my school every year as is the case with many other generous alum. I'm really not trying to say the retail side can't be a good internship, it's just my opinion that it won't help you get an ibanking job if that's what you're after.</p>
<p>Excellent posts, I completely agree with suze and those here who advocate paid internships. Some of us do not have mommy and daddy footing the bill for college/grad/bschool =/</p>
<p>"Let me explain. There is a huge snob factor where ibanking jobs are concerned. A ML has way more back office and retail people than they have ibankers. The ibankers consider themselves to live in a totally different world. Retail brokers are considered by them to be in a different industry. Ibankers couldn't imagine not paying you. Even when I was a high school intern they loved to throw money at us, there was just so much money flowing through and they wanted to intice us! We were given all kinds of gift certificates and bonus cash in addition to salary. My boss gave me a weekend in a suite at an amazing hotel in london after the work was done. They want to rope smart kids in. That any bank wants you to work free is troubling."</p>
<p>That is exactly what I was trying to tell people in the Careers/Employment section of CC before being flamed by someone's mom about how I'm the only one who is skeptical or wary of unpaid internships. If the big banks actually want you, they'll fly you over, take you on Super Saturdays, sell-days, etc... even if it's just for a summer internship in a IBD or PCS.</p>
<p>Some people, such as myself, cannot live on unpaid internships when I am paying for my entire college, myself. During the summer, I have to rent an apartment, and Boston realty is very, very expensive. </p>
<p>I'm not sure if I get GPA grades for internships at my school, but doing an internship for credit forfeits money I have reserved from my 3rd Party UPENN scholarship... I am only allotted 120 credits. In a sense, I'll work for free, go into debt, have less time for classes, and get charged by the university for the work I'll do for free...</p>
<p>Unless this is a Goldman-Sachs unpaid internship... which by the way, they WILL pay.. $14K for 10 weeks (before taxes)... I'd be wary.</p>
<p>Go with the paid internship if you cannot afford to do unpaid.. but if it's MS, well, you'll probably get a job or another paid offer, sooner or later.</p>
<p>I agree with that NYTimes article 100%. Right now at MER, I'll getting paid pretty well, and that's why I'll do more quality work for them.</p>
<p>I'm sure if this was unpaid, and I get dealt everybody's garbage work.. then I'd get resentful and not perform my job correctly.</p>
<p>The "McDonalds" effect. Thank god for this post!!</p>
<p>dcfca you doing this at the ML in Dallas? I'm thinking of trying to apply for the same internship next summer. You mentioned that you found the opportunity at UT, how and when (early as possible) should I try and obtain the internship?</p>
<p>My daughter did this summer of her freshman year, working at Merrill Lynch's branch office. She quit after 2 weeks, unpaid work for answering phones, getting people lunch, typing...........not learning anything. Her experience would not have helped her. The job description and your experience matter more than the name of the company. She's now a consultant in Washington DC. graduated from Pomona several years ago.</p>
<p>If you have paid summer options.........by all means, take it......usually people don't look what you did summer after freshman year.</p>
<p>Wow, that sucks...</p>
<p>Did she know how to use Excel? How to do research? Etc? What did she do after she quit?</p>
<p>What/Who is she consulting for now? Just curious.</p>
<p>I think she became a SAT tutor with Princeton Review. She was doing that part time throughout college. She majored in econ at Pomona so yes, she learned Excel, research.</p>
<p>I'm about my 3rd week into the internship, it's mostly cold calling -- we each get an opportunity to go to an appointment when they close a deal, yesterday one kid went on site to the meeting and was present to close an 80 mm dollar deal but again like I said -- its a lot of cold calling. That's what their business revolves around. I've never had to get anyone coffee or anything like that, occasionally I use the copy machine but not very much.</p>
<p>I think a lot of it boils down to how the group you intern with works because they're all going to be different. Anyway if you can get an internship with a small start up where you can do real analysis work, or a small i-bank/hedge fund by all means do so</p>
<p>my friend has a "paid" internship, it is like 10 an hour in the city, for some reallllllly small consulting firm. He does complete b.s. there, and is learning nothing. He sits on google, typing in company names that are clients of the firm.</p>
<p>Good experience!</p>
<p>Hey, he may not be learning much, but he's getting paid. On top of that, he'll be able to put that on his resume. I think it's a bit unrealistic to join a company/firm, however small it may be, as a summer intern and think one is going to be closing deals and devising key strategy.</p>
<p>Many people also see an internship as a way to get their foot in the door --of that company or even of another one in the field.</p>