<p>I read this article today in the NYTimes about the increasing number of Mexicans who lag in obtaining a college degree. It not only saddens me that this issue exists, but motivates me to change it. I am a teacher in a mid-size city suburb of NYC and many of my students are Mexicans. </p>
<p>Read the article. It's pretty disheartening to think people try so hard to get to the land of opportunity, but never quite make it. Can you offer any suggestions that can help change this? (No, they're not learning disabled.) </p>
<p>One factor that I find just astonishing: they do not include phonics in this school's curriculum, yet these kids don't know the sounds of the letters. To me, it is no wonder they can't read English. In fact, their spoken English is fine, but there's a disconnect between the written word and the spoken word. When my students see the written word and they haven't learned to sound it out, my heart drops.</p>
<p>Though even if you teach phonics, it can be a tough concept to get through thoroughly due to the inconsistent mapping between letters and sounds in English (compared to other languages like Spanish).</p>
<p>Any suggestions that I can do to make a difference? I teach 3rd grade and I know it’s a long way between 3rd and 12th, but … The one person they described in the article had repeated 10th grade 3 times. He was expelled at 18 years old. </p>
<p>Anyone else (teacher, parent) involved in this issue who can also share?</p>
<p>Being an immigrant whether documented or undocumented is never “easy”. Although some may have it easier than others. Kermit the Frog said, “Its not easy being green.” and he’s a native born.</p>
<p>so limabeans, If hiring undocumented immigrants is illegal, why should the Latinos pursue education for jobs that they can not have? They are following the most likely and easiest economic decision process.</p>
<p>Not all of them are illegal immigrants. To check whether your hypothesis is true, one would need to know the dropout rate statistics by immigration status (i.e. illegal immigrants versus citizens and legal immigrants).</p>
<p>My high school has a program called AVID (advancement Via Individual Determination). It was also in the middle school and is starting at the elementary. The students are mostly first generation to go to college and the majority are Mexican. The program not only helps with the basics but provides the “soft” education as well. The soft stuff are the things we take for granted that are actually cultural, things as basic as how you approach a teacher with a problem. The program started in San Diego CA where there was/is a problem similar to what you are seeing. There is a lot of info about it on the internet.</p>
<p>It seems fairly clear that the article is referring to non-Americans, because it uses the term “Mexican,” which would be odd to do if it was referring to Americans, and also in some sentences, it refers to both “Mexicans” and “Mexican-Americans.” It does not distinguish between Mexicans who are illegal immigrants and those who are legal resident non-US-citizens, however.</p>
<p>Whether here legally (on visa) or without visa, such students are ‘internationals’ and not eligible for federal aid. Thus, no Pell grants, no Stafford loans. Unless NYS wants to pick up that cost, it is extremely difficult for any poor student – whether citizen or not – to attend college. Moreover, it is extremely difficult for ‘internationals’ to obtain a legal job to help pay for college.</p>
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<p>Been occurring in the border states for decades. (I guess the NYT only picks it up when it becomes a local issue. )</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, statistics were depressing even for young folks with a legal status.</p>
<p>The fundamental issue, in my mind, is the culture and value system. Otherwise, how do you explain the success of Chinese kids whose parents also work multiple jobs to support a family and who do not speak English well enough to “work” the system on behalf of their children? Being a teenage mom and dropping out of school is simply not in the repertoire in these families. I am sure there are some too, but we are talking about a big picture, not individual cases.</p>
<p>So, my question would be, how do you instill a value on kids that is different from what they are familiar with?</p>
<p>Sorry I sound completely “politically incorrect”. But it’s my opinion all educational intervention programs will have a limited success unless the culture and value of the individual student’s family does not change.</p>
<p>“The fundamental issue, in my mind, is the culture and value system. Otherwise, how do you explain the success of Chinese kids whose parents also work multiple jobs to support a family and who do not speak English well enough to “work” the system on behalf of their children? Being a teenage mom and dropping out of school is simply not in the repertoire in these families. I am sure there are some too, but we are talking about a big picture, not individual cases.”</p>
<p>Looking at the bigger picture would entail to include other Asian ethnic groups, and especially the groups that share more attributes with Mexican immigrants. Think about an agrarian population with poor parental level of education. How do Hmongs and Laotians compare to Mexicans? How do the subgroups that suffer from poor acculturation do? </p>
<p>Simply stated it takes several generations to break the vicious cycles of poverty and substandard education. And, fwiw, looking at the performance of Native and African Americans, one could safely assume that our society has done little to nothing to help the less fortunate rise.</p>
<p>Sure, that was made clear in the article. (Undocumenteds are eligible for instate tuition in California, too.) But, as I posted previously, undocumenteds are not eligible for federal Pell Grants nor federal Stafford Loans. Since many of the Mexicans in the article are poor, that is ~$9k in federal support that they cannot receive as an ‘international’. THAT is the $$ that NYS would have to replace so they could attend college. Even with instate tuition costs, US colleges are still out of reach for most of the ‘international’ poor.</p>
<p>There are many alternatives between dropping out of high school at 15 and graduating from a four year college at 23 or 25. At a time when the value of a higher education is challenged and its economic return questioned, smaller incremental steps might be better. A focus on vocational and professional education starting in high school might offer more incentives than a degree from a full fledged university. Moving up from dishwasher to cook or to chef represents a drastic improvement. The same for moving from janitor to a construction job. </p>
<p>Models such as Cristo Rey are a good start, but more could be done with the public dollars.</p>
<p>Well said, xiggi. The WSJ had an article today lamenting the lack of skilled workers. They specifically mentioned Union Pacific being unable to find enough electricians who have worked on diesel engines. Dh and I looked in the CC catalog and we see there’s a specific program at one local CC that trains students to work on diesel engines. </p>
<p>I don’t know how to link to the article but it was thought provoking. My dh is a skilled worker (driver) who will retire at some point and look for other blue collar work. We are throwing out ideas now, well in advance of his retirement.</p>
<p>I’ve been a volunteer literacy teacher for over 20 years to adults, most of whom are illegal immigrants from Mexico and Guatemala. I’ve noticed some very big changes in the population in the last 7-ish years. Where the students used to be family men (and sometimes women) who wanted to make better lives for their families and did so based on incredibly hard work and determination, in recent years the immigrants are from deeper within Mexico and Guatemala and are more likely to be members of indigenous groups that don’t speak English or Spanish and have no history of literacy in any language. We can’t really help those people in any meaningful sense and the hard truth is that they won’t be assimilable within the first three generations, if not longer. The two main differences with other immigrant groups are that (a) we can’t translate for them very well and (b) it’s HARD to teach the concepts of literacy to adults, and those adults do not pass along the same educational aspirations as we find desirable in our culture. This is one of the situations where people have to be honest with themselves in saying that it’s not always kind to encourage immigration without limits. This specific population would be much better off in its own culture with support from its own government in its own language.</p>
<p>I don’t think they’re that far out of reach for NY’ers. At just over $5K/year for a 4-year school, instate tuition is very low and, of course, much lower at the CC’s and juco’s. There are over 60 SUNY schools so many people have at least one within commuting distance. There are state aid programs that may help as well as scholarships for internationals. The key is to get them to graduate so that they can take advantage of these opportunities!</p>
<p>I think before I could offer any kind of suggestion, I think I’d have be clearer on what the Op means by “Mexicans” having trouble in college.
U.S. citizens, but of Mexican ancestry?
Naturalized U.S. citizens of Mexican origin?
Young visitors to our country(from Mexico), on some kind of Visa?
International students, whose home country is Mexico?
Young visitors to our country “tagging along” due to a parents here with a Visa?
Or people here illegally from Mexico?</p>
<p>Any of those might be referred to as “Mexican”…</p>
)</p>